Surveyor 2.0 - Discussion Thread

I was brought up on Trainz to avoid CTRL+Z like the plague, but is it OK now?

Paul

It works fine now, Paul.

I still tread gingerly with it though after being brought up the same way. Oh, do I remember splines spilling off into space in TRS2010!
 
I find to straighten the track is now extra steps.. before you click on the straighten icon then you can do it to whatever length without having to select the track first.

It all just seems a bit frustrating at the moment, even placing a loco down and then having to rotate it.

Will just take some time to get used to the different process I guess.
 
Some thoughts on the Scrapbook feature in Surveyor 2.0:


In Classic, the copy/paste function uses the copy-from selection size to automatically size the paste-from function. This is useful because you can see what the size is before the paste and know if you will have a conflict either in available space or rotation. In 2.0, you cannot rely on this - you have to select a paste area not knowing whether it's too big, too small, or the wrong rotation. It would be helpful if the size of the copy area could be visualized in meters/grid units, plus the rotation. I had to resort to laying down rulers for the copy area and also for the paste area so that I could be sure that the copy area and the paste area were the same size to avoid either compression or expansion. Very time consuming.
 
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Has anyone figured out how to deselect you assets in the scrapbook thumbnail so you can see what it is.
 
In Surveyor 2.0, when you select an object, then Edit Properties, the window comes up just like in Surveyor Classic, allowing you to give the object a name. However, the window does not show the layer the object lives on. Is this an oversight or is there another way to display/change the layer for that selected object?
 
In Surveyor 2.0, when you select an object, then Edit Properties, the window comes up just like in Surveyor Classic, allowing you to give the object a name. However, the window does not show the layer the object lives on. Is this an oversight or is there another way to display/change the layer for that selected object?

Go to the info palette and it shows on the bottom line.
 
This is probably a weird complaint but I hope still a valid one.

I have been trying to learn Surveyor 2.0 while building a small route and have found that with the absence of the large circular "spline points" I no longer know how to space track!
For years (the join date on my account is inaccurate) I have been spacing parallel tracks by lining up the spline points at a specific spot. With spline points now being small I can no longer do this. Does anyone have any tips as to easily creating parallel tracks (with a consistent spacing) in S2.0? I am not someone who can just eyeball it.
 
Use a track spacing guide which I use, or lay track in "classic" Surveyor which I also do. Switching between modes is faster with the newer build.

John
 
Apart from track spacing guides (which work well), the Info Tool gives you accurate X,Y co-ords. That may help. Note that you can get very accurate adjustments selecting a single vertex (with the Free Move tool) and moving your mouse over the up/down arrows in the Info tool X or Y fields.
 
I use the properties icon as a guide. Placing the icon just on the edge of the previously placed track gives me the standard 5m spacing.
 
I still prefer the old Surveyor
Have given it a try but have gone back to the original
Haven't found any benefit in using it
I just find it too slow - supposed I'm just used to the original
 
John - what do you mean by the properties icon?

Tony - all of those methods work but all of them are significantly harder to achieve than anything available previously. Let me attach a screenshot as an example.

Screenshot-2022-05-27-005208.png


When laying the second track the only thing I must do to ensure the tracks are perfectly parallel is to line up the edge of the circular spline point with the rail on the first track. Track alignment guides can help with width, but unless you put one at EVERY spline point you can't ensure it's parallel over a long distance and around turns. The coordinates work, sure, but that's slow. I've used the spline points as an easy visual indicator of where the track should go for years.

"Very accurate adjustments" isn't really my concern. Having double tracks be perfectly parallel around turns and such is, and that's nearly impossible to eyeball without spline points no matter how accurate your adjustments are.
 
Haven't found any benefit in using it...
>>
Have you read the online guide?
https://docs.trainzsimulator.com/docs/surveyor20

I agree that when you first try it, the mechanics are very different. But once you get the hang of filters, scrapbooks, multiple selection, easy identification of what assets will be moved, contextual menus for various tasks, improvements in accuracy (e.g. mm height or horizontal adjustments) you realize how often you're opening and closing menus to swap tools in Classic, or unable to filter items to select the one you're trying to move etc.

S20 will still get plenty of love and new features yet, so I highly recommend spending a few hours and checking out the guide to find out more about the power options. For example, laying track sections like this with a single click:

2022-05-17_120455.png




 
Haven't found any benefit in using it...
>>
Have you read the online guide?
https://docs.trainzsimulator.com/docs/surveyor20

I agree that when you first try it, the mechanics are very different. But once you get the hang of filters, scrapbooks, multiple selection, easy identification of what assets will be moved, contextual menus for various tasks, improvements in accuracy (e.g. mm height or horizontal adjustments) you realize how often you're opening and closing menus to swap tools in Classic, or unable to filter items to select the one you're trying to move etc.

S20 will still get plenty of love and new features yet, so I highly recommend spending a few hours and checking out the guide to find out more about the power options. For example, laying track sections like this with a single click:


I still think It's quicker for me in Classic. When I changed to S2 my route building slowed to a crawl. Basically started turning me off route building.
The only thing I was hoping for in S2 was smaller diameter Brush so I wasn't trying to work on a pin head without having to use an excavator for the fine detail .
Maybe one day I'll try it again but only if I have no other choice or something really interesting happens to it.
.
 
As above, it's a different workflow. Expecting instant advancement isn't going to happen without a learning curve.

For example, you know where every button is in Classic, then in S20, there is no direct mapping so you're going to spend time trying to figure out how to do something.

In S20, for example, with one click you can change the paint brush to raise terrain, paint a ground texture, or paint a forest with 10 different trees and 3 different Turffx layers.
 
Its going to be a gradual transition for me. After 20+ years of using Surveyor Classic, I am very confident and quick at using it. I have started using S20 and can see the advantages, not having to constantly switch menus is one, the marquee tool and scrapbooks (I recently uploaded my first scrapbook asset to the DLS) are others. But it will take some time to get used to.
 
Hi soap___, and all
It's definitely a change, but I do highly recommend (from personal route building experience :) ) using track spacing templates. The spline circle size has changed a few times over the years, for various reasons, which means that track spacings might not always be 'right' in different versions of Trainz. A lot of the time you also tend to end up with quite a large gap compared to most railways, depending on how you line them up.

For the Healesville route (both TANE and TRS19 versions :) ), I used an earlier template object of my own making to space the track.

But as an example on my latest project, I've been using a 'trackside' track spacing template, that has spacing appropriate to the Victorian Railways. There's quite a few different variants of the idea on the DLS (if you want the ones I'm using, look under the username 'S301', they start with 'VR' and come in 2t(track), 4t, 5t, and 10t variants).

GlewKBy.jpg


The method I use, like building real track tbh (done a bit of that as well, albeit 2ft6in gauge!) is to lay out a 'master' track spline that follows the path you want. Then place down the templates every spline point (once you get the hang, you will probably find you can skip some).

Once you've done that, simply lay the parallel track(s) to match the 'points' on the template you want.

For double track, this might be a little more work (placing the templates, and later removing them), but tbh I find it's a lot quicker than lining up spline points after placement, as you can 'place' directly on the mark in the template. But for 3, 4, or more tracks I find it saves an awful lot of time as I have markers laid out, and they cover multiple tracks.

As has been said, there is a bit of a change. But once you get used to it, IMO the tools make for a more streamlined workflow. The route in the above screenshot has been primarily built in S20 (I actually used it as my learning route for S20). And it's always worth remembering you can switch back and forth; sometimes you might want to use the classic tools to do something, but there are definitely tools that I'd feel lost without now that I've made a lot of use of them.

Regards
 
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