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Thread: Surveyor 2.0 - Discussion Thread

  1. #91
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    Tony, I have a simple and I believe very useful request. Please allow me to right click on the preview window of the Trains tab and choose "Open in Asset Preview".

    Hint for readers with old eyes like me. Right Click on the screenshot Tony provided and choose Open Image or Open in new tab and you will get the full size image that allows you to see the details.

    Thanks Tony,

    William

  2. #92
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    This all sounds very exciting. Looking forward to it.

  3. #93
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    I guess this will get buried in the avalanche of suggestions, but I have one about ground textures. It would be useful if the Surveyor texture palette could be filtered and/or sorted by properties that actually matter but which we can't currently do comprehensive searches for. Things such as;

    - Average or median RGB colour value (perhaps a colour space graphic with a cursor that finds all textures within its selected RGB value range).
    - seasonal or not (based on config content rather than “soft” info like usernames or keywords).
    - snowline snow or not (again based on hard config evidence).
    - texture type legacy, no normal map.
    - texture type legacy, with normal map.
    - texture type PBR, no parallax.
    - texture type PBR, with parallax.

    We would need the ability to apply these criteria in combinations, for example to list “all non-parallax PBR textures with dark brown colour tone and a snowline snow option”. If we could have all this, then it would be much easier and faster to home in on the textures we need.

    And one separate request. The current thumbnail images in the palette are always much darker than they appear in the game. Would it be possible to get a more accurate match between the two?

    .
    Last edited by Dinorius_Redundicus; September 17th, 2021 at 02:55 AM.
    T:ANE SP4 (105946), TRS19 SP3 (111951), Max 2009/2012, PhotoShop CS3
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  4. #94
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    Yes filtering with 20k items is real important Dino
    that's what i asked in post 4 of this thread
    Think the thumbnails you see, is what the creator added to the ground texture
    they are not generated like FI the side of the trains you see in the Driver list
    that would be very slow.
    Last edited by G.M.; September 17th, 2021 at 03:48 AM.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicky9499 View Post
    Tony.

    I am sure whatever you have planned is not something taken lightly. However, just as a gentle reminder, please please please keep in mind that any feature that breaks backward compatibility this significantly should be either optional or have some sort of conversion tool to ensure the longevity of our community-created content that is so unique and dear to the Trainz community.

    There have been many backwards-non-compatible features implemented over the years and while they have certainly obsoleted some content, this was limited to a small portion of content, often falling under the "content is too old and don't look good in the new version" category, and/or was able to be updated and brought back to life in newer Trainz versions. Which is fine.

    What you are suggesting above, is a complete, utter 100% obsoleting of every single route ever created for Trainz, many of which have had years or even decades worth of work in them and some that look more at home in an art gallery than an indie train sim. You are already aware of the complaint against such a move, I just hope you also recognize the gravity of this complaint.
    I'd very much hope it would be a once converted to new system, you can't go back type of option.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    A change from the Grid terrain is a big task and has long been planned. It pretty much makes existing routes and texturing redundant. So the alternative complaint would be “so I need to discard the last 20 years work”.

    While the new tools are different our testing indicates after a short learning curve you can pretty much work in a similar manner as now, but do things quicker and easier (like moving 100:things with a click instead of 100+ clicks).

    Vern - perhaps re-read the features as this is the least “cosmetic” change ever. If you think copy paste from one route to another is cosmetic, for example, then I’m not sure what sort of solution you’re after.

    The overall feeling I get here from some of the negative comments is “we want more”. But I don’t see any “and were willing to pay for making it happen”.

    We’d love to implement every suggestion sooner rather than later. With 10 times more staff we’d be at least 5 times faster at implementing them. If all our regular Trainz users “invested” a few $ a week as Gold Class members we’d get things done much much quicker.

    As it stands, we do as much as we can with what we’ve got. The option for us to do more rests with you guys.

    (The alternative is to stick with what you’ve got - no extra charge).
    Is there a roadmap for what N3V are working on in the future?

    After bitter experience, I wouldn't consider pre-funding with a subscription without knowing pretty much precisely what is coming.

    PS given my support fo Auran and N3V over the years, I slightly resent the implication that those who don't subscribe aren't prepared to pay.
    Last edited by amigacooke; September 17th, 2021 at 04:33 AM.

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigacooke View Post
    PS given my support fo Auran and N3V over the years, I slightly resent the implication that those who don't subscribe aren't prepared to pay.
    I didn't read that at all in his post. He simply made a statement that if there were more subscribers then things could get done faster - an obvious "no brainer" to me.

    PS I have also given my support to Auran and N3V over the years and just recently decided to become a subscriber to Trainz Plus, and bought TS3 as well, because it would give more support to N3V in producing a better product.
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  8. #98
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    Everyone who is an advocate of Trainz or spends their money supporting us is valued. If our existing users spent more we’d be better off. There are literally hundreds of thousands of ex users who, if they returned and purchased something, we’d be far better off.

    My point was simply that the speed of development is pretty much predicated upon the revenues we receive. Everyone wants more things more quickly. Subscription to Gold Membership is probably the best value for money to make that happen.

    Conversely buying every DLC would be much better since it would cost you much more vs membership therefore better margins for us to devote to future development.
    Tony Hilliam

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  9. #99
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    We understand this Tony
    but why are many users now ex-users?
    I know many of the dutch creators, that went to the competition and make stuff there now
    Years i fight to keep them interested and help support their creations
    If the base is better in the competition they leave, if development is not what they want they leave
    The team is small can't do it all, no-one expects that.


    Currently too much gets broken in SP's and beta's for no apparent reason,
    changes are made that no-one requested, do not change what works even if old
    and good suggestions (read suggestion boxcar) are shelved or ignored.


    All here love Trainz, you have a real loyal fan/userbase
    Not all contributions are in cash, everyone that has ideas, tests or creates I respect and thank.
    It made Trainz great and will keep it going, hopefully for many years.
    Realize that not everyone is interested in all content.


    Want cash, listen to the users, and sell bug free TRS22 with s2.0 (20 year anniversary edition)
    aim at 2 weeks before x-mas :-)

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinorius_Redundicus View Post
    I guess this will get buried in the avalanche of suggestions, but I have one about ground textures. It would be useful if the Surveyor texture palette could be filtered and/or sorted by properties that actually matter but which we can't currently do comprehensive searches for. Things such as;
    - Average or median RGB colour value (perhaps a colour space graphic with a cursor that finds all textures within its selected RGB value range).
    - seasonal or not (based on config content rather than “soft” info like usernames or keywords).
    - snowline snow or not (again based on hard config evidence).
    - texture type legacy, no normal map.
    - texture type legacy, with normal map.
    - texture type PBR, no parallax.
    - texture type PBR, with parallax.
    We would need the ability to apply these criteria in combinations, for example to list “all non-parallax PBR textures with dark brown colour tone and a snowline snow option”. If we could have all this, then it would be much easier and faster to home in on the textures we need.
    And one separate request. The current thumbnail images in the palette are always much darker than they appear in the game. Would it be possible to get a more accurate match between the two?
    .
    Nothing more to say :
    These are great suggestions, which I fully support !

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    Everyone who is an advocate of Trainz or spends their money supporting us is valued. If our existing users spent more we’d be better off. There are literally hundreds of thousands of ex users who, if they returned and purchased something, we’d be far better off.

    My point was simply that the speed of development is pretty much predicated upon the revenues we receive. Everyone wants more things more quickly. Subscription to Gold Membership is probably the best value for money to make that happen.

    Conversely buying every DLC would be much better since it would cost you much more vs membership therefore better margins for us to devote to future development.
    I’m afraid I’ve reverted back to paying once a product is ready and not before. That’s not really because of N3V, but others who have made claims and not delivered on money taken in advance.

  12. #102

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    Surveyor 2.0 notwithstanding, it is going to take more than a few cosmetic changes this time to compel me to pay another £60 for the next version of Trainz. There are plenty of competitor products on the market, all of which offer a vastly superior driving and gameplay experience than just set the route and tootle around with no objectives, no timetable and no AI despatcher. As I've remarked before, even Run 8 has a despatcher board which allows the player to set the route ahead of his train. Likewise paying a monthly subscription holds no real interest.

    DTG update both their heritage TS and TSW2 each year with the core upgrade being free, up to the user if they buy the featured routes or other DLC which seems thus far to afford them a fairly steady revenue platform to continue the product(s) expansion.
    Building In DTG TS, Driving Trucks In Snowrunner

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vern View Post
    Surveyor 2.0 notwithstanding, it is going to take more than a few cosmetic changes this time to compel me to pay another £60 for the next version of Trainz. There are plenty of competitor products on the market, all of which offer a vastly superior driving and gameplay experience than just set the route and tootle around with no objectives, no timetable and no AI despatcher. As I've remarked before, even Run 8 has a despatcher board which allows the player to set the route ahead of his train. Likewise paying a monthly subscription holds no real interest.

    DTG update both their heritage TS and TSW2 each year with the core upgrade being free, up to the user if they buy the featured routes or other DLC which seems thus far to afford them a fairly steady revenue platform to continue the product(s) expansion.
    I absolutely agree. I'm still wondering whether TRS19 was really worth $79. TRS202X will have to far more than the upgrade from T:ANE to TRS19 for me to even consider buying it. If, however, they succeed at that, I will continue to support and buy Trainz and their DLC products.

  14. #104
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    Tony is right - the ability to select a small portion of a route and copy-paste to a new route is a life-changer for those of us who build routes. This will allow us to very easily share (on the DLS) small routes with our best stuff which can then be downloaded and merged to a existing route of a different user without the tedious process we now have. Big stations, ports, airports, anything with a lot of detail comes to mind. Well done Tony and N3V.

    Someone in this thread asked for larger circumference of circle when texturing. I would like to see this for a different use - for terraforming. Creating realistic terrain is too difficult for large areas because the circumference is too small. Maybe the code for that could be shared between texturing and terraforming.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by schweitzerdude View Post
    Someone in this thread asked for larger circumference of circle when texturing. I would like to see this for a different use - for terraforming. Creating realistic terrain is too difficult for large areas because the circumference is too small. Maybe the code for that could be shared between texturing and terraforming.
    Totally agree. I spend a lot of my route creation time adjusting baseboards to the correct minimum height so I can then start terraforming. I do not recall, at least not since the days of TRS2004, ever needing a baseboard with its height set at 0 metres. As a result I spend a lot of time running in ever decreasing circles around each baseboard setting the terrain height with the terrain tool at its maximum radius. Therapeutic, to be sure, but a time waster.
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