Surveyor 2.0 - Discussion Thread

This is more of a general question about the next release but I guess it pertains to S2.0 as well. Is there any chance we'll see an updated SpeedTree version for the next Trainz? As far as I know, SpeedTree V6 is no longer available, and it would be awesome to be able to make custom plant assets with the newest ST version.

If the past is anything to go by then we (and N3V) will probably have no choice in the matter but to upgrade to the latest SpeedTrees version. However, SpeedTrees are now owned by Unity Technologies who bought out the previous owner, IDV, earlier this year. While IDV had a policy of forcing all licensees of their software, e.g, N3V, to upgrade to the latest version, it is not known if Unity will have the same policy.

Be careful what you wish for with speedtree. The current version is v8 and we use v6. There would be a development cost involved, not to mention that we would be back to incompatibility between tree versions trying to update trees again like TS12/T:ANE and having less choice to begin with. Speedtree v7 has Eucalypts whereas v8 does not, which would annoy Australian builders. Speaking of creators, we lost at least 2 tree creators with the last speedtree version change, why risk losing those that remain.
Sure the trees look nice, but they will come with a price.

Yes but that won't stop 3rd party creators from creating new trees in V8. North American builders haven't had access to proper Western/Rocky Mountain speedtrees yet, and having the current build available could certainly bring new content creators, or perhaps even bring ones like Jankvis back into the speedtree game. I know that if Trainz gets an updated ST version I will certainly be looking into putting some money towards a few months of a speedtree license.

wayneshorter1965 said:

Yes but that won't stop 3rd party creators from creating new trees in V8. North American builders haven't had access to proper Western/Rocky Mountain speedtrees yet, and having the current build available could certainly bring new content creators, or perhaps even bring ones like Jankvis back into the speedtree game. I know that if Trainz gets an updated ST version I will certainly be looking into putting some money towards a few months of a speedtree license.

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While I agree with you on the tree species, the problem is compatibility with the binary code part of the Speed Trees. The problem we ran into before is TS12 was on V5 of the Speed Trees. When N3V was forced to update to V6 due to switching to 64-bit, because IDV didn't have cross-licensing between the platforms, this left all the V5 assets out in the cold. The problem was the new trees will not work with the old binaries. This is what is called a dead end path where the asset remains where it is.

The other issue we face is cost. The Speed Tree program is expensive to purchase and quite expensive to "rent". In the past, N3V purchased license-seats for the content creators to be able to create content. I'm not sure there's an upgrade available for previous versions, as there is for other programs or not, but that still doesn't solve our binary compatibility issue.

In part the problem is caused by our use of Speed Trees. The rest of the gaming and CG world uses Speed Trees once in a version. The content is also controlled by the company specifically, so if there's an upgrade from V6 to V11, for example, it won't matter because it's a closed environment. The problem we have is we use the assets long term, so assets created in one version have to remain in that version and can't be updated to the new version that may come out.

It's too bad that IDV, and now probably Unity, didn't think long term, but then again like most companies these days they're into the game, so to speak, for the short term to get what they can out of the market.

Hello Team, could we expect the possibility one or more of the following features added?


1: Larger and more detailed terrain displacements.
2: Larger radius options for terrain manipulating and texturing, instead of being limited to 80 meter radius, which would allow for easier and faster large terrain editing.
3: A new method for placing trees, where you could use a radius editor and place several trees based on sensitivity, rather than placing one tree at a time.
4: Last but not least, not sure if this is too advanced, but here it goes. A possible way to have more than one color preset for bodies of water. IE: A beach could have bluish-green water, a lake could have brown , not very transparent water, and a river could have more clear and transparent water.


This one is a request rather than a question:
I hope that the surveyor classic feature will remain as a permanent feature. Why? Because while many players such as myself are eager to take advantage of surveyor 2.0, the classic feature would be helpful for those who either might be overwhelmed by the extra features of 2.0, or would prefer a simple way of creating a route. Having both classic and 2.0 ingame would be beneficial and allow for a wider audience.

SAUBER_KH7 said:

Hello Team, could we expect the possibility one or more of the following features added?

2: Larger radius options for terrain manipulating and texturing, instead of being limited to 80 meter radius, which would allow for easier and faster large terrain editing.

Having both classic and 2.0 ingame would be beneficial and allow for a wider audience.

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Don't know about 1, 3 and 4 but the brush radius has been increased in Surveyor 2.0 plus the ability to set the height for many (upto 20?) baseboards at once.

According to an earlier post by Tony, you will have the option of using either Surveyor 1.0 or 2.0 so us "dinosaurs" can still keep "plodding along" until extinction

My understanding.

pware said:

Don't know about 1, 3 and 4 but the brush radius has been increased in Surveyor 2.0 plus the ability to set the height for many (upto 20?) baseboards at once.

According to an earlier post by Tony, you will have the option of using either Surveyor 1.0 or 2.0 so us "dinosaurs" can still keep "plodding along" until extinction

My understanding.

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Wow! 20 baseboards (give or take) would be fantastic!:udrool:
Indeed, as someone who has played Trainz since 2001, a good balance of old and new would be helpful for a Dinosaur like myself.

A belated suggestion for future consideration:

We've all used the Smooth Spline Height 'S' tool in the advanced panel of the track laying tab. It isn't difficult to regret using it. The first click can do too much leveling.

That tool already adjusts the terrain to match the track if you click once, and adjusts it further with each additional click.

Would it be possible to dial the result of the first click way back and let us keep clicking until we are satisfied? It would make the tool much more useful.

Thanks for the consideration.

OddRails said:

Would it be possible to dial the result of the first click way back and let us keep clicking until we are satisfied? It would make the tool much more useful.

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A good suggestion. A variable control, perhaps a "dial" or slider of some sort, would be a better idea. That way those (like me) who rely on the first click giving a larger smoothing effect would not be annoyed by having to click multiple times to get the same result.

I would suggest a post in the Suggestion Boxcar forum?

How do you increase the brush size, I use Trainz plus. And also how to do the baseboard thing. Does not seem obvious, sometimes I do miss things when it does not hit me between the eyes.

Sean_lee said:

How do you increase the brush size, I use Trainz plus. And also how to do the baseboard thing. Does not seem obvious, sometimes I do miss things when it does not hit me between the eyes.

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You can't in the current releases TRS19 SP4, Trainz Plus SP4, so you haven't missed a thing! These "features" are to be included in the forthcoming (date, time and platform number as yet unknown - a bit like I noticed at Waterloo Station a couple of years ago) Surveyor 2.0.

Not sure if this has been suggested before, or if it's planned anyway.
Can we get a tool that will allow a polygonal (square/rectange/irregular) selection of terrain, and smooth it evenly within that area?

davidbird said:

Not sure if this has been suggested before, or if it's planned anyway.
Can we get a tool that will allow a polygonal (square/rectange/irregular) selection of terrain, and smooth it evenly within that area?

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It (and similar suggestions) have been made before but it would, apparently, require a major upgrade to the terrain system. This is very unlikely to occur in Surveyor 2.0 but is something that could be in a (longer term) future release. I suspect that a major problem might be incompatibility with existing routes - hence it likely to be a longer term proposition.

Hi, Received my online copy of TRS22 Beta, It's great BUT, I can not find Surveyor 2.0 when I go into the tools menu. I only have one choice which is Surveyor Classic, which does not contain all those bells and whistles and the fancy drop boxes. Am I missing something or is that yet to still come.

TRS22 Beta does not have S20. The Trainz Plus membership offers this feature. For the same price as your TRS22 version you can get an Trainz Plus annual membership, which also includes an FCT and S20. Contact helpdesk if you want to change over.

How do you increase the brush size, I use Trainz plus. And also how to do the baseboard thing. Does not seem obvious, sometimes I do miss things when it does not hit me between the eyes.

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Online guide is here: https://docs.trainzsimulator.com/docs/surveyor20

Tool Options > Radius to change your brush size (to any size you like).
Marquee Tool to add new baseboards.

So when does S2.0 drop seeing it is going to be the default method of Surveyor. I am assuming an update sometime soon. Being a Trainz Plus and Gold subscriber just want to be ready. I am Route building at present.

Sean_lee said:

So when does S2.0 drop seeing it is going to be the default method of Surveyor. I am assuming an update sometime soon. Being a Trainz Plus and Gold subscriber just want to be ready. I am Route building at present.

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It will be in the Plus version of TRS22 only. You can get the early beta right now, or wait for a more stable build early next year, or when the game officially releases in the Spring of 2022.

hert said:

It will be in the Plus version of TRS22 only. You can get the early beta right now, or wait for a more stable build early next year, or when the game officially releases in the Spring of 2022.

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Pity that its only TRS22, was hoping to use it as it seems to have some of the features I could use right now.

In the Trainz Settings, under Interface Settings, the Survey interface settings shows "Spline Point rotation" as an option that can be turned on/off. Yet in Surveyor, I don't see any spline points. Is there an on/off switch to show the spline point circles or at least a way make the spline points more obvious. The little black squares are barely visible until you're almost right on top of them.