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Thread: Problem Identifying a Session Save?

  1. #1
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    Question Problem Identifying a Session Save?

    The Layers menu says I am in Session mode. Or, I am in a Session Layer and actually in Route mode?

    Still in a Session layer - when I select Save I get a Route save panel. I really wanted a Session Save. I do not believe that if I am in a session layer I can save a non-route session.

    Save As asks me if I want to save a new route or a new session. I have to assume that session in this case means a route session, sometimes known as Default.

    I am in total confusion over this thing that others are fortunate enough to understand.

    Is there a definite process that will specifically allow a Save of a Route Session or Save of an (unamed) Session?
    Last edited by boleyd; July 29th, 2021 at 01:59 PM.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

  2. #2
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    Default

    Every route can have 0, 1, 2 or more sessions.
    Every session has only one route that it is associated with.

    When you edit a session, the associated route is opened and the session has the focus.
    When you edit a route, it doesn't know which session to open so a new session is created and opened. Any existing sessions are still there, just not opened for editing.

    When you look in the layers tab, the top half shows the route layer(s). Anything saved in one of these is always available since they belong to the route itself.
    The bottom half shows session specific layer(s). Anything saved in these is only available if the same session is opened the next time. Open another session and anything in the previous session will not appear.

    When you just Save, the route and current session is saved as-is with the names they had when they were opened.
    When you Save-As, you can save the route with another name. This is also where you can save the current session with a new name while keeping the same route name.


    70337:
    TRS19 Platinum, build 110491 SP2, Win10 Pro 64 bit, i7-7700 3.6GHz 16 GB, GTX 1070 Ti

  3. #3
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    Default

    Every route can have 0, 1, 2 or more sessions.
    Every session has only one route that it is associated with.

    When you edit a session, the associated route is opened and the session has the focus.
    When you edit a route, it doesn't know which session to open so a new session is created and opened. Any existing sessions are still there, just not opened for editing.


    Thanks for the info. The sentence in above confuses me. Does that mean that every time I open a route, not a session, I will get an additional new Default session? Are these the sessions I see labeled as Default sessions? It is my impression that a Default session contains a lot of parameters pertaining to settings from the last route save. Perhaps this is why I have seen a bunch of these things sometimes lined up under Select A Session.

    I find this process so confusing that it is difficult to compose a coherent question.

    For years I never used ANY sessions and ignored them when they appeared. I simply worked at the route level. Sometimes there arrives a situation that you simply can't grasp or control. I think Sessions are one of those. Yes they work, but there are so many odd messages and repetitive creations I just do not feel confident in that arena. My many years of software background is a liability to internalizing this Sessions process. I simply do not trust it.

    I admire you, and others like you, who quickly grasp this stuff. You, and your fellows, are the glue that hold this product together.

    Regards,
    Dick
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

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    You can continue to do everything in the route layer(s) but there are a few things that get automatically saved in the session. IIRC, portal configurations and other such data. I could be wrong so anyone, feel free to jump in and correct that.

    Yes, all those Default sessions are from every time you start to edit a route directly. Like I said, the route doesn't know which session to open so it just makes a new one every time. As long as you don't save anything in the session, it's no loss to just delete them so they don't clutter up your database. Except for my caveat above. If some data is stored in the session, you'll lose it every time.

    One of the big reasons for using sessions is if you want to use the same base route and have different activities. Each session could also have its own scenery if you want to be really specific.


    70337:
    TRS19 Platinum, build 110491 SP2, Win10 Pro 64 bit, i7-7700 3.6GHz 16 GB, GTX 1070 Ti

  5. #5
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    Dick, you've asked this a couple of times. Let's try to nail this down with specific examples. Give me the name of a Route you would like to run. Once I have that we'll start a step by step walkthrough hoping to explain basics to help you. So let me know the Route you'd like to Run.
    Last edited by 1611mac; July 29th, 2021 at 05:45 PM.
    TRS19: Std SP3, Plus SP2, SP3, Beta 114400; Tane SP4

  6. #6
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    Greg, sometimes people have a mental blockage relative to a particular logic construct. They interpret it automatically in a manner other than was intended. Perhaps That is my reaction to Sessions. The major liability for me, should I pursue Trainz activities, is my reaction to things relative to the sessions processes. I do understand the need. I also know that for a complex session I can simply create a route session and go at it. In fact I did that just to make sure my years old habit still worked. I made a single route session to gather incoming product from Boston for distribution in coastal Maine. However, I know that any need for a separate session will require another copy of the route.

    I believe I understand the session philosophy but its logical use causes me to see confusion to a degree that I can't reliably construct a session. Perhaps it is the terminology of calling the file holding active route parameters a "session" that bothers me the most. I know it is nutty. I know it is really not a session but..... N0 big deal. My Sessions could be complex but each will not rely on the other. Again thanks for offering but I think you would hit a brick wall. In the meantime I can fully enjoy Trainz, but on my terms.
    Regards,
    Dick
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

  7. #7
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    Dick, a session does not need hold anything for a Route. A session is separate from the Route. In fact, most Routes that you download from CM won't have a session. You keep referring to sessions holding data for the Route. It does not. Think of the session running "on top" of the route but it is still separate. You could send your route to a friend and it would still be the same route with all necessary data.

    From your Route he could create "sessions." For instance, maybe you like Coal Trains. You have a Route that is suitable for Coal Train runs so you Launch the Route and Create a SESSION. This SESSION will be a Coal Run. In it's simplest form you would place a Coal Train and save a SESSION name "My Coal Run." The session runs "on" the route, but the route and the session are separate. You could send your "My Coal Run" session to your friend and then he could run the Coal Train session just as you did. But perhaps he likes local freights instead of coal trains. On that same ROUTE he could CREATE a SESSION, place a Local Train, give it some duties, and run his local. The Coal Train session and the Local session both run the same "Route" but they are separate. Each session could be saved and sent to someone else.

    Now, let's say you are running your Coal Run Session and you have to stop halfway through so you do a SAVE of the current "session" you are running. This is where it's easy to get lost. This saved "game" Session is saved right alongside the original Session in the panels. So now you have the original unchanged ROUTE, you have your Coal Run SESSION, and you have a "saved game" SESSION. When you save an "in progress" session it might help if you named it something like "game Coal Run midpoint" or "mid-session Coal Run." It is important to keep your "Coal Run" session in its orignal starting condition for the next time you want to run it.

    If you want to change your "Coal Run" session by adding trains on sidings and such you must do this to the Original Starting session. Not any of the "saved" "game" sessions.

    In all this, the original Route has also NOT been changed (assuming you add everything to the SESSION layer and NOT the route layer.) So you still have your original route and you still have your orignal session.

    Note that if you save your session while in progress 3 times you will have as icons:
    the single ROUTE in the Route panel, but Sessions panel will show Orignial SESSION, Game Save Session 1, Game Save Session 2, Game Save Session 3

    To run the same session again you would start the Original SESSION. If you create Routes and Sessions you want to keep backups of the originals, but probably not backups of the "game saves." In fact, to keep things simple, I delete the Game Saves asap.

    Does this help?
    TRS19: Std SP3, Plus SP2, SP3, Beta 114400; Tane SP4

  8. #8
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    I suspect what is going on here is you may be creating a session but alter something or add something that is route based, hence when you go to save the session, it's asking if you want to "save new route or session." The answer to this is when you go to create or work on a new session, go into layers and make sure the route layer is LOCKED. That way you can not alter the route itself, and when you go to save it will just overwrite the session. Hope that helps.
    Working on Trainz.

  9. #9
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    Hmmm.. That sounds logical. The Locked route, causing saves to not write into the route layer, may be the guarantee as to which layer I am always in. The lack of clarity for where the changes are going is an issue for me. For example saving a session asks if you want to save to a session with a suggested name of "Default".

    I am too used to precision where there is no ambiguity. As I age I need clear instructions since recalling and sorting a list of possibilities used to be instantaneous. Now it is not as efficient which leaves doubt and an unclear choice as to the consequences of a selection.

    Thanks,
    Dick
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

  10. #10
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    Have you considered going back to "Standard Edition" and just staying with it? It does not have UDS.
    TRS19: Std SP3, Plus SP2, SP3, Beta 114400; Tane SP4

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1611mac View Post
    Have you considered going back to "Standard Edition" and just staying with it? It does not have UDS.
    I have UDS, but I never use it because it's too easy to make a mistake and lose the work I've just done. I will sometimes use it for testing where I have no intention of saving anything, but that's all.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by KotangaGirl View Post
    I have UDS, but I never use it because it's too easy to make a mistake and lose the work I've just done.
    The same! With UDS I never know which of the route or the session will be modified.

  13. #13
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    Dick, I wanted to mention... Just in case you thought I was "talking down" to you in my reply above or being too simplistic..

    My intent was for us to actually go through the process starting from the beginning with simple runs and saves and talking only routes, sessions, and saved sessions (games). Once you verified that you understood all that then we'd move on to surveyor and such. That was my intent. By no means did I intend to "talk down" or anything similar. Just wanted to be clear. I'd likely learn some new things myself. I really don't see how new users of TRS-19 get it all figured out. The UDS is awesome but its implementation with Route saves, Session Saves, Game Saves has potential for mass confusion.
    TRS19: Std SP3, Plus SP2, SP3, Beta 114400; Tane SP4

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by KotangaGirl View Post
    I have UDS, but I never use it because it's too easy to make a mistake and lose the work I've just done. I will sometimes use it for testing where I have no intention of saving anything, but that's all.
    Being the sucker than I am I just recently established a second account and purchased Standard Edition even though I'm a Gold/Plus member. I wanted to have a non-UDS copy available - yes, I realize the Plus version I have is tied to my Gold account subscription. And yes, I also realize that since my original purchase was for TRS-19 Early Release I'd revert back to "Standard" should I ever quit Gold. I could argue that I should have had access to Standard since that was my original purchase, but no, with Gold I only had access to Plus. I'm really sorry I never saved a complete installer for 100240. Live and learn. (You will note in my signature I have kept "final" releases of SP2 an SP3.

    But I have to wonder... How long with N3V keep "Standard" available? We have UDS and now with Surveyor 2 announced you have to wonder why they would want to have to maintain both "Standard" and "Platinum/UDS/Plus" (whatever we call it). I have to imagine that it greatly bloats the code and makes debugging a nightmare.
    Last edited by 1611mac; July 30th, 2021 at 09:51 AM.
    TRS19: Std SP3, Plus SP2, SP3, Beta 114400; Tane SP4

  15. #15
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    Aha! another important item - UDS. The descriptions above, of using the feature, aligns well with much of my confusion. Maybe that is the root cause that shows in various ways.

    If I avoid clicking on Surveyor Mode and Driver Mode, in the Tools Menu, I should be ok in the present build????
    Then use the "old-fashioned" way of going back to the Main Menu and choose a route or a session.
    That is a very minor extra step to insure I am absolutely selecting a specific session or route.
    Proper labeling should prevent further error.

    If I try to go to some previous build I could mess something up and waste time fixing a self-created mess..

    THANKS
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

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