I want to convert my ATX home-built PC into a Trainzing machine.

JonMyrlennBailey

Active member
What hardware do I need?

I want to retain full MS Windows 7 64-bit compatibility with the option to change to Windows 10 or other edition later on. I want max Trainzing performance with settings maxed out and routes thick with 3D content even with the latest Trainz version offered. How cheap can I get all the parts rounded up and where?

Will probably need the following new parts to replace older ones:

1. 120 mm case fan, mobo-speed-controlled
2. PSU, modular cable management
3. mobo
4. solid-state drive
5. processor, heat sink and cooling fan (Intel or AMD inside?)
6. graphics card
7. RAM (I believe Windows 7 supports up to 16 GB)
8. any necessary hardware attachments (cables, connectors)


Here are the build specs on my current PC:

ItemSourceDescriptionPriceNotes
HARDWARE
Badge for front of caseCorporateConnection.complastic engraved plate (office door sign)
Blu-ray Optical Drive, internalAmazon.comPioneer Electronics USA, BDR-209 DBK (this drive writes Blu-ray disks, CDs and DVDs)$68 with extended protection planReplaced 5-year- old HP DVD writer in November 2014
Building Supplies/
Tools
(various)Philips screwdrivers, ruler, plastic locking cable ties
Cooling Fans/heat sinks as neededn/a1 on heat sink supplied w/ processor, 1 supplied w/ case, 1 supplied w/ power supply
CPUFry’s ElectronicsAMD® Athlon™ II 620, 64-bit, 4 cores, 2.6 GHz clockspeed, 2MB cacheSupplied w/ AMD fan and heat sink
Fastening hardware as need(various)supplied w/ case
Graphics card if no video onboard moboAmazon.comXFX CORE Edition FX-777A-ZNF4 AMD Radeon HD 7770, 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5, PCI Express 3.0 x16, HDCP Ready, CrossFireX Support Video Card


  • 1GB 128-Bit GDDR5
  • Core Clock 1000MHz
  • 2 x DVI (1 Single Link, 1 Dual Link) DVI 1 x HDMI HDMI 1 x DisplayPort DisplayPort
  • 640 Stream Processors
  • PCI Express 3.0 x16
$100.00Purchased and installed May 2013
Hard Drive, internalAmazon.comWestern Digital Blue 1TB SATA 6 Gb/s 7200 RPM 64MB Cache 3.5 Inch Desktop Hard Drive (WD10EZEX): Serial Number: WCC6Y4KC94D9$52.95Replaced original Seagate 500 GB drive on Oct. 25, 2017
Keyboard and mouseAmazon.com (keyboard), Fry's (mouse)Adesso 3-color illuminated compact desktop keyboard, wired: Logitech wired mouse, optical
Memory card reader/writer, internal, 3.5”n/a(none)
Memory, RAMFry’s Electronics/Amazon.comDIMM DDR3 2GB 1600 DUAL x 4, CMX4GX3M2A160069, Corsair = 8 GB total
MonitorFry's Electronics, Sacramento, CASamsung 20" LED$200.00Includes 2-year protection plan, purchased May 2013
MotherboardAmazon.com Skytech
  • Gigabyte AM3+ AMD DDR3 1333 760G HDMI USB 3.0 Micro ATX Motherboard GA-78LMT-USB3 Socket AM3+
  • Chipset: North Bridge AMD 760G & South Bridge SB710
  • Memory: 4x 240pin DDR3-1333+(O.C.)/1066 DIMM Slots, Dual Channel, Max Capacity of 32GB
  • Slots: 1x PCI-Express 2.0 x16 Slot, 1x PCI-Express 2.0 x1 Slot, 1x PCI Slot
  • Windows 8 Ready
  • CPU: AM3+ socket Support for AMD AM3+ processor,AMD AM3 Phenom II processor / AMD Athlon II processor
  • Memory: 4 x 1.5V DDR3 DIMM sockets supporting up to 32 GB of system memory / Support for 1333+ (O.C.)/1066 MHz memory modules
  • LAN: 1 x Realtek GbE LAN chip (10/100/1000 Mbit)
$79.95NOTE: has Asurion 4-year plan, purchased Feb. 6, 2018, $8.02 extra

BIOS Version: F1

Serial Number: 4/A/HBA027 01810

Model: GA-78LMT-USB3

Revision: R2 (Rev.1)
PC caseFry’s ElectronicsATX form factor: Antec™ New Solutions NSK 4480B II w/ original 380w Earthwatts power supply and 120 mm fan, not mobo-controlledDiscontinued Enclosure: PSU replaced 2/16/2018, replaced front panel switches and LED lights 2/16/2018
Power SupplyAmazon.com Services, Inc.EVGA 450 B3, 80+ BRONZE 450W, Fully Modular, EVGA ECO Mode, 5 Year Warranty, Compact 150mm Size, Power Supply 220-B3-0450-V1$49.95Replaced original PSU 2/16/2018
Sound Card if no sound onboard mobon/asupplied w/ mobo
SpeakersWal-Mart Onn external amplified desktop speakers, pair
Wireless Adapter card , internal w/ drivern/a(none)
Wires, cables, connectors, adapters as needed(various)several USB cables for remote USB hubs, printers, etc.-monitor cable, wireless Ethernet bridge Cat-5 cable, power cable supplied w/ case
SYSTEM SOFTWARE
Copy of operating system installed on buildFry’s Electronics, RosevilleMicrosoft® Windows 7® Home Premium/64 Bit
OEM COPY

PRODUCT KEY: ____
$119.99Builder, ME!!
Any drivers for internal components as needed(various)various supplied with extra devices on discs, Windows O/S and downloaded
Thermal pasteAmazon.com Deb LopeARCTIC ORACO-MX40001-BL MX-4 Thermal Compound Paste, Carbon Based High Performance, Heatsink Paste, Thermal Compound CPU for All Coolers, Thermal Interface Material - 4 Grams$6.95to reinstall CPU heat sink on Feb. 16, 2018
Switches/LEDs front panelAmazon.comWarmstor 2-Pack Computer Case LED Light Red Green ATX Power Supply Reset HDD Switch Cable 27-inch Long ATX Case Front Bezel Wire Kit

Replaces burnt out status leds on ATX cases PC ATX Power Reset Switch Cable
PC ATX Power Reset Switch Cable;Design : H.D.D LED, Power LED+, Power LED-, Reset SW, Power SW
Sometimes it's the small parts that can make a big difference. Replace your burnt out LEDs and worn out switches with this handy ATX front bezel wire kit. The five-piece kit comes with two switches (Power, Reset) and three LEDs (Power, Hard Drive Activity, Sleep). Each switch and LED is clearly labeled to make installation easy. Make sure your computer still looks and works as great as the day you bought it with this replacement kit
LED Number : 2;LED Light Color : Red, Green; Cable Length : 68cm / 27";Material (External) : Plastic
LED Number : 2;LED Light Color : Red, Green; Cable Length : 68cm / 27";Material (External) : Plastic
$7.99Had to modify front panel LED holes from original 3mm holes to larger holes to press-fit larger LED's: original LED's were both blue: had to file down power switch operating pushrod that connects with on/off button in panel for reliable operation

This PC was originally built late 2009.
vAwasuv.jpeg
 
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As soon as you stated that you wanted Trainz maxed out with heavy 3D scenery, you needed at minimum a $1,000US graphics card. 16 gig RAM will be fine with either Win7 or 10, but your RAM speed is too slow. Your processor is too slow also: an 8 core would be highly recommended or at least a very fast 6 core. My own opinion would be to keep what you currently have and use it for something else: replace it with a complete new system.

I am like you and love very heavily wooded areas especially right at the track. My system is a Ryzen 7 2700 with an nVidia RTX 2070. 16G of 3,000hz RAM. When I drive one particular stratch of heavily forested area, with everything on max setting except post-processing, I can drop to less that 30FPS. And this is system is optimized for Trainz because it is the only thing that I do in Win10. Everything else is through Linux installed and a seperate SSD. And I almost forgot that: you really need an SSD rather than a spinner.

Hope that helps a bit. I really would be looking for a new system completely.
 
I want to keep the case and just swap out the guts inside. You know, like shoehorning a 454 Chevy into a Vega body.

autodctr is your gamer a store-bought machine or home built? Build sheet please.


How does this build look?


fan, be quiet! Pure Wings 2 120mm PWM high-Speed, BL081, Cooling Fan, $12.99


psu, EVGA 210-GQ-0650-V1 650 GQ, 80+ GOLD 650W, Semi Modular, EVGA ECO Mode, 5 Year Warranty, Power Supply, Black, $79.98


graphics card, ASUS TUF Gaming NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1650 OC Edition Graphics Card (PCIe 3.0, 4GB GDDR6 Memory, HDMI, DisplayPort, DVI-D, 1x 6-pin Power Connector, IP5X Dust Resistance, Space-Grade Lubricant), $384.88


drive, SSD, Crucial MX500 1TB 3D NAND SATA 2.5 Inch Internal SSD, up to 560MB/s - CT1000MX500SSD1(Z), $114.49


memory, TEAMGROUP T-Force Dark Z 16GB Kit (2x8GB) DDR4 Dram 3200MHz (PC4-25600) CL16 288-Pin Desktop Memory Module Ram (Gray) - TDZGD416G3200HC16CDC01, $76.99


mobo, MSI Arsenal Gaming AMD Ryzen 2ND and 3rd Gen AM4 M.2 USB 3 DDR4 DVI HDMI Crossfire ATX Motherboard (B450 TOMAHAWK MAX II), $104.43


processor, AMD Ryzen 5 3600 6-Core, 12-Thread Unlocked Desktop Processor with Wraith Stealth Cooler, $287.99


Amazon Total (incl. tax and shipping): $1,157.31

 
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The memory SSD, and PSU, and CPU look good. The Ryzen is really good at that price (comparable to the 8700k). I also have that exact SSD. Its a good one.

I wouldn't get that 1650 though. Its definitely NOT worth $400. I got a GTX 1060 6GB new from zotac for $180 (though that price is inflated now), and its much better than a 1650 for $400. And while playing trainz, the 1060 is the bottleneck. At that price, you could get a 1070ti, and with a little more money, you could get a 1080/ti (which is way better). You should check out user benchmark to compare cpus and gpus to make sure you are getting a fair price: https://gpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Nvidia-GTX-1060-6GB-vs-Nvidia-GTX-1650/3639vs4039

Here are my computer specs:
Dell Precision T1700 Workstation
GPU: Nvidia GTX 1060(6GB)
CPU: Intel Core i7-4790k
16GB DDR3
1.5TB SSD

Here are some of my videos running those specs on TRS19 with medium settings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa_WTwbrFs&ab_channel=JBVector
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM3V9hoMuXM&t=1s&ab_channel=JBVector

Hope this helps.
 
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It's funny that everything electronics (with few exceptions) gets cheap when it matures on the market. Plasma TVs cost the price of a new car at one time then got bicycle cheap by the time they went out. Gaming PC components (particularly graphics cards) don't seem to follow this trend. They seem to get pricier everyday.

It's not how much power that's on the market: it's the biggest bang for your buck.

I've been Googling around lately. The graphics card market seems like it favors sellers and not buyers at this time. If I pay $400+ for a card I expect it to last at least ten years and not be buggy. Amazon.com offers $76 4-year protection plans for cards. Is it worth it? Does Trainz tend to burn cards out fast? If they can mass-produce TVs so cheap, why not cards? I've been also reading reviews about people getting gouged on these cards. Some people have even said Zotac was high-priced crap.

Should I hold off until times get better for buyers?

I happened across this video:

(84) Why Are Graphics Cards So Rare And Expensive? - YouTube

COVID seems to have thrown a money wrench into the works.
 
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I think (and hope) that GPUs will come down in price in a year or two. That GTX 1650 is not going to work for what you want: your FPS will likely be in single digits or very close at times. My opinion is that you are wasting your money on that.
 
I scratched that particular GPU from my amazon wish list. I'm holding off on the whole notion of a gaming PC for a while. People on eBay are asking an arm and a leg for used cards even. What is the actual production cost of these China-made cards? $5.00 US?

Higher-end processors might come down in price later on.

How many years of service have Trainzers here gotten out of their higher-end GPU's?

There is this cheapie at amazon.com:

Amazon.com: ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC 4GB GDDR6 128-bit Gaming Graphics Card, Super Compact, ZT-T16520F-10L: Computers & Accessories

At $299, can this handle TANE SP1 maxed out?
 
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I scratched that particular GPU from my amazon wish list. I'm holding off on the whole notion of a gaming PC for a while. People on eBay are asking an arm and a leg for used cards even. What is the actual production cost of these China-made cards? $5.00 US?

Higher-end processors might come down in price later on.

How many years of service have Trainzers here gotten out of their higher-end GPU's?

There is this cheapie at amazon.com:

Amazon.com: ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC 4GB GDDR6 128-bit Gaming Graphics Card, Super Compact, ZT-T16520F-10L: Computers & Accessories

At $299, can this handle TANE SP1 maxed out?

Not a chance. M RTX 2070 (Amazon $800+) barely handles it. BARELY.
 
Does Trainz actually put more strain on hardware than typical shoot-em-up type PC games? Does Trainz have to really be an expensive hardware affair?

I just ordered this:

Amazon.com: ZOTAC GAMING GeForce GTX 1650 OC 4GB GDDR6 128-bit Gaming Graphics Card, Super Compact, ZT-T16520F-10L: Computers & Accessories

I'll see if it even runs TS12 to my satisfaction. It is returnable.

I ordered all the PC hardware upgrade other stuff, too, including the AMD Ryzen 5. Over $900 total (to re-gut my 12-year-old tower) with tax!! Free shipping.
 
https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php

Realistically you want 10,000 3D benchmark so a 1660 is just about usable. A 1650 I wouldn't even bother with. Newegg.com have them for around $400.

the solid state drive will add maybe .1fps. The CPU is going to give you 10% on the PS, the GPU will give you 90% on the frames per second. Spend the $900 on a good GPU as far as bang for the buck goes. Don't forget switching the CPU will cost you an additional $100 or so for a new windows license.

However

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html you can get one for $30.

What is your current CPU?

Thanks John
 
Does Trainz actually put more strain on hardware than typical shoot-em-up type PC games? Does Trainz have to really be an expensive hardware affair?

Actually, it does. And, the bigger the layout, the more strain. The more scenery, the more strain. The more consists, the more strain. 10,000 trees on your layout mean 10,000 pieces of scenery to display in 3D. Trainz puts more of a strain on my machine that any game I have ever tried. And you stated that you want to run everything at maximum video values? You are not going to do it with that video card.
 
Does Trainz actually put more strain on hardware than typical shoot-em-up type PC games? Does Trainz have to really be an expensive hardware affair?

Actually, it does. And, the bigger the layout, the more strain. The more scenery, the more strain. The more consists, the more strain. 10,000 trees on your layout mean 10,000 pieces of scenery to display in 3D. Trainz puts more of a strain on my machine that any game I have ever tried. And you stated that you want to run everything at maximum video values? You are not going to do it with that video card.

If you choose the content very very carefully it might just work but Middleton for laptops is very niche.

Cheerio John
 
My recommendation right now would be to get a 1660 Super for $250, which is between a 1060 and 1070 (https://www.microcenter.com/product...ds_Hatchfeed?utm_campaign=nVidia+Shop+(Batch))
Or wait and get a 3060ti for $400 (https://www.bestbuy.com/site/nvidia...39402.p?ref=186&loc=nvidia_site&skuId=6439402). But I can tell you right now you will regret that 1650, as its comparable to the 1050ti (a somewhat poor gpu). If you're looking for smooth gameplay with maxed out settings, you're probably going to need something better than the current upgrade: https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...00-series-graphics-card&p=1880555#post1880555

I've also had my 1060 for 2.5 years, overclocked all the time, with no issues.
 
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This seems to me that he has gone for what is available currently at an affordable price.
The GTX 1650 is one below a GTX 970 on Benchmarks UL, a 1650S would have been slightly better than a GTX 970. As a 970 Ran TANE here for a year or two can't see why a 1650 would be any worse, as a stop gap on moderate settings until prices drop it will probably be OK. Note he is running TANE not TRS19 and not all 1650s as with any card are equal, Zotac tend to be on the better performance end than some of the other manufacturers, sore point as my ZOTAC GTX 980 Ti AMP! Edition albeit over clocked is within 5 fps of my Gigabyte Aorus GTX1080TI although the 1080TI runs a lot cooler.


Heck my lowest spec PC runs TRS19 on mid settings so long as I don't go over 5000m draw distance, Phenom 1090T x6, 16GB of DDR3, 6Gb GTX1060 and it did have a GTX970 in it at one point, does take a long time to load and the CPU and probably motherboard is bottlenecking the GPU which could obviously do better with a newer CPU.

I have and have used GTX970, GTX980TI, GTX1060 6GB, GTX1080TI on TANE and TRS19 and other than lower frame rates on the lesser cards all are capable at running TRS19 or TANE on reasonable settings.

This GPU pricing has got out of hand, even the local Second hand Computer / phone shop where you could get good / refurbished second user PC components for a few quid has jumped on the band wagon and is selling GPUs at way over their original cost.
 
Remember that in his opening post, the OP stated that he wanted to "I want max Trainzing performance with settings maxed out and routes thick with 3D content even with the latest Trainz version offered." He is NOT going to do that with what some people are suggesting! I still argue that to actually do what he wants, he needs something closer to the RTX 2070 or better.
 
Very true however he has subsequently said,
I'm holding off on the whole notion of a gaming PC for a while

He can upgrade the GPU later, assuming prices return to more normal levels, they may not for some time though given the shortage of silicon, delivery and supply issues and Covid.
2070 and 1080TI are roughly equivalent depending on who's benchmarks you look at, it swings either way.
 
And a new 1080ti is same price: $800US and up.

One other caution to the OP: watch buying from Chinese sites and other sites where the price seems really cheap: they take lesser cards and reprogram to identify as better cards even though they are not.
 
Now, it boils down to what is in my budget. I now realize I'm not going to max Trainz out on the cheap. I might have to lower the draw distance. I might have to cut back on tree detail. I basically want smooth-moving trains. I want to try a higher anti-aliasing setting and shadows anyway. I need a processor and memory upgrade anyway. That old AMD Athlon II gets taxed by Google Chrome and even MS Edge. I'm going to 16 GB RAM. 8 GB memory no longer cuts it anymore even for browsing and video streaming. With a new Ryzen CPU comes a new mobo and I went to a new 650 W PSU to boot. Using the automobile analogy, basically I'm pulling out "the stock 4 banger" in my computer chassis and putting in "a non-muscle-car V-8", as it were. The spendy GPU is what amounts to "a 4-barrel Holley, headers and a turbocharger" which is out of my budget now still.

12 years ago, my home-office-grade computer was about $900 to build (including the new Windows 7 license) way back then with a $40 home-office-grade GPU. Now, 12 years later, I'm spending another $900 to soup it up some.
 
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I'm buying everything from amazon.com. I replaced my motherboard in 2018 and did not need to buy a new Windows 7 license. I have the Windows 7 OEM disk with product key. How does Microsoft KNOW if you changed your CPU?
 
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I'm buying everything from amazon.com. I replaced my motherboard in 2018 and did not need to buy a new Windows 7 license. I have the Windows 7 OEM disk with product key. How does Microsoft KNOW if you changed your CPU?


When you activate the license it sends back information that identifies the CPU, motherboard etc. Each component is weighted with points and if so many points change then you need a new license. The license number on your disk has probably been registered. I picked up a refurbished PC from Newegg once that was fine except the license number had already been registered on a different machine. Microsoft's advice was return it to Newegg.

Cheerio John
 
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