2019 is getting more frustrating !!!

R

Ron_Smith

Member
Every time I try to come to grips with 2019 I find originally simple tasks to be impossible. How to change water colour and condition. In previous editions SIMPLE in 2019 not obvious !!
No user manual and the wiki system is very hard to find any help on most subjects.
Good old NV3 improve everything and make it harder to use - how to lose their customers for future editions.
I feel better now for a good old whinge !!!

Ron
 
Ron - Changing water colour and surface conditions/ weather, fog levels and atmospherics is now easier - and more capable - in TRS19 than any previous version of Trainz.
You simply need to know that this is all done at the Surveyor, Session Edit mode level - and that changes can be made - and saved - for any diurnal time slot you choose for each scenario you've created.
Look for the Edit Environment... dialog, in the Session Edit menu bar.
The dialog has three main tabs on the left hand side, allowing access to different settings tools. (Lighting - Location - Environment).

Check out the Trainz Wiki for more information and "How to..." details here: https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_Environment_Tools
There's a cool online, interactive tutorial on this process that was created by N3V a couple of years back. Will try to find the link for you and post it here. https://n3vgames.typeform.com/to/y4J2Rl

In the meantime, please look for this dialog in the Edit... menu and invest some quality time learning how to master this amazing tool for creating realistic lighting and atmospherics for just about any scenario:
env_set.jpg


IMO there's a huge amount of misinformation and general confusion on these forums about lighting, setting gamma compression, and applying other atmospheric conditions in TRS19 that is utterly unwarranted.
Yes - we still cannot save our Post Processing settings to the session for future use, but we CAN set and save realistic lighting, water colour, set seasons, skybox and atmospheric conditions in the dialog above for any session and for any user-chosen time spans.
 
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?? Er, what? This is the same as Tane, edit in environmental controls, so I see no difference. Perhaps the only difference is that it's lumped into a menu to edit everything, ie route session, and environment. Mine you I don't think much of TRS19 apart from the nice graphics, hence why I'm back in Tane, unless they improve TRS19 and fix all or most of the problems lol.
 
Alikiwi - Nope - look again more closely! There are quite a few differences, including a new Brightness slider to the right of the Palettes Preview controls. The RGB defaults and baked-in Post Processing settings are different too. (Trainz Settings..., Performance tab).
Exceptionally realistic lighting and atmospherics are possible with competent, knowledgeable and judicious application of these settings controls, especially if you have set Shadows set to Ultra and Shadow resolution detail to 4096.
Important! If you want to see PBR objects properly rendered in TRS19, then you also need to set Shader Quality to Ultra.
 
Tony_Hilliam said:
Please provide a bullet point list of these issues you are referring to.
Click to expand...

Here's a simple bullet point for 'ee: numerous very experienced users have insurmountable difficulties in getting TRS19 lighting to work to avoid glare from into-the-sun viewpoints. See forum for details.

Here's another: TANE lighting can achieve non-glaring into-the-sun viewpoints. so why not return, in TRS19, to whatever TANE does to render the light?

Personally I have a large experience of many photo editing and video editing applications, as have many here who have lighting issues with TRS19. Many such applications have poorly rendered editing controls but the most popular have extremely good controls. They are good because they are highly versatile and intuitive in use. Why not use those of, say, Photoshop as a model and dump the very peculiar, non-intuitive and (in TRS19) unworkable lighting controls that are frustrating hundreds and perhaps thousands of users - including the dozens who would like to build TRS19 routes but are leery of doing so because they CANNOT GET THE LIGHTING TO WORK?

Lataxe, rolling his eyes to heaven.
 
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PC_Ace said:
Alikiwi - Nope - look again more closely! There are quite a few differences, including a new Brightness slider to the right of the Palettes Preview controls. The RGB defaults and baked-in Post Processing settings are different too. (Trainz Settings..., Performance tab).
Exceptionally realistic lighting and atmospherics are possible with competent, knowledgeable and judicious application of these settings controls, especially if you have set Shadows set to Ultra and Shadow resolution detail to 4096.
Important! If you want to see PBR objects properly rendered in TRS19, then you also need to set Shader Quality to Ultra.
Click to expand...

You missed the point! I was saying the settings are STILL in the same place. I didn't say it didn't have more features. Environmental settings are still environmental settings!
 
Lataxe said:
Here's a simple bullet point for 'ee: numerous very experienced users have insurmountable difficulties in getting TRS19 lighting to work to avoid glare from into-the-sun viewpoints. See forum for details.

Here's another: TANE lighting can achieve non-glaring into-the-sun viewpoints. so why not return, in TRS19, to whatever TANE does to render the light?.
Click to expand...

I do take the opposite view here. I don't see "insurmountable difficulties" with TRS19 lighting as I and others have pointed out in the forum thread (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?164452) you are referring to. I certainly would not like a return to T:ANE for anything.

My opinions.
 
pware said:
I do take the opposite view here. I don't see "insurmountable difficulties" with TRS19 lighting as I and others have pointed out in the forum thread (https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?164452) you are referring to. I certainly would not like a return to T:ANE for anything.

My opinions.
Click to expand...

Go and take a look in the Screenshots section of the forum Mr P and you'll see endless examples of Trainz folk who haven't managed to solve the esoteric mysteries of how to set up the environmental lighting in TS2019/TRS19.
 
Most people don't bother with environmental settings as can clearly be seen in the screenshots forum and seem happy with making and using routes that scenically belong in TS12 and below. Personally I don't have a problem with lighting, I accept it as is and work around any limitations as I do with the rest of TRS19. In my opinion, TRS19 could be perfect and a vocal minority would still find a way to denigrate it without backing up their "facts"
Graeme
 
grazlash -
In my opinion, TRS19 could be perfect and a vocal minority would still find a way to denigrate it without backing up their "facts"
Click to expand...
Sadly, I'm coming to this conclusion too.
What irks me is that some reject turning on the latest features and dismiss the highest available settings options and then complain about the graphical results they see on their screen - as evidenced in their screenshots without ClutterFX, PBR and (stunningly!) shadows.
Not wasting more time here on trying to convert the unredeemable.
Key point I'd like to make is that the tools are there to create highly realistic atmospheric effects and credible scene illumination. It is up to the individual to master the application of those tools to achieve the best that can be wrung out of their toolkit.
For the T:ANE recidivists, there is NOTHING there that TRS19 cannot do better - except for the PP settings being allowed to become entirely disabled if one so wishes. (Cannot completely turn PP off in TRS19 - some PPFX are also baked into the Performance settings).
 
KotangaGirl said:
Go and take a look in the Screenshots section of the forum Mr P and you'll see endless examples of Trainz folk who haven't managed to solve the esoteric mysteries of how to set up the environmental lighting in TS2019/TRS19.
Click to expand...

I am not certain that many of those people would agree with your assessment of their efforts. I for one am perfectly happy with the lighting options available in TRS19 in all the screenshots I have posted - and no they are not all set in the baking hot Aussie outback. I am not interested in getting photographic realism in the lighting when the assets in the scenes do not, and probably never will, match the same photographic realism. It is a computer game.

Look through these forums and you will see endless posts from people who have trouble laying tracks, adjusting terrain, using layers, session rules and driver commands. I recently helped a user who had trouble setting up a working trackspeed sign of her/his own creation (he/she was using the wrong "kind" tag value). Trainz is a "complex beast" and is being used by people with a wide range of abilities and with a wide range of expectations. That complexity provides users and creators with an enormous range of options and variations for those who want to use them. But I suspect that even an infinite set of options would not be enough.

My opinions.
 
In my opinion, TRS19 could be perfect and a vocal minority would still find a way to denigrate it without backing up their "facts"
Click to expand...

Now that is shockingly dismissive and unfair Graeme and the same goes for your comments as well Ace. If you don't know why that is so then I pity you both.
 
KotangaGirl said:
Now that is shockingly dismissive and unfair Graeme and the same goes for your comments as well Ace. If you don't know why that is so then I pity you both.
Click to expand...
Really? There is a case of it in this very thread. When asked for evidence by Tony, all we hear is crickets from the complainant.
 
The OP posted yesterday. Not everyone who is a forum member comes here everyday to check out forum postings, - so it's a bit soon to start decrying the OP's lack of a response to Tony's request.
 
Perfection - eye of the beholder. Most users have one or more areas where they would "strongly like" more attention. Tony, is very far down the path of "almost" all-things-for-all-people. If he had focused one, or a few areas, his market would become insufficient to sustain the costs of the product. He chose a fairly universal approach in order to include the widest market.

So, we see periodic flareups for specific improvements, where some contain a high level of personal, or emotional involvement. If the Marketplace (in total) asks for something then it may be considered. Right now the product needs some attention to basic processes. I doubt that it would be rational to deal with very specific requests when many foundational elements are in need of rehabilitation.
 
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