Gamma

Happy to throw my tuppence worth into this. Here's the gamma problem in respect of my Ashburton route that I'm currently converting to TRS19:

https://flic.kr/p/2mdoAcC
https://flic.kr/p/2mdishL

Top is the default 'washed out' Gamma = 2.2 setting. Bottom is Gamma reduced to 1.8 in post-processing settings. It looks a bit dark in the screenshot, but actually in-game it feels a lot more natural and gives me more leeway with the environmental settings.

Shame I can't save this edit - if I base my environmental settings on the revised Gamma and then upload to the DLS, it won't look right to people who don't adjust their post-processing settings.

At the very least, couldn't the default setting be toned-down to 2.0? 2.2 is too bright for northern Europe!

Paul

In days gone by when computer time was expensive and PCs didn't exist I'd probably lead up the program, alter the default value in memory then save the program. If I was feeling really good I'd document it.

I think a small program that altered the default value shouldn't be that difficult to do.

Will N3V acknowledge that there even is a problem for some users?

Cheerio John

Paulsw2 said:

At the very least, couldn't the default setting be toned-down to 2.0? 2.2 is too bright for northern Europe!

Click to expand...

And there is the problem. I find the default value perfect for Outback Australia where I build many of my routes. But no matter what you set the "default" to, it will be satisfactory to some but not to others.

I never knew that these Post-Processing setting existed until this thread (and even then I still had difficulty finding them).

I really don't know what to make of this. On one hand I can speculate on why they were "hidden away" (lots of programs do that with "internal settings") - perhaps to stop users (i.e. non-programmers) from fiddling with them in which case maybe N3V should not have made them accessible to us users. On the other hand if users find it useful to fiddle with these settings then you can certainly make out a case for allowing users to save them. But, like the Effect Layers settings in TRS19 and TRS19PE, they will need a lot of work (i.e. time and resources) to make editing them more user friendly. I understand (but have yet to test it) that you can save the Effect Layer settings in Trainz Plus.

I suspect (hope?) that we might see a change in this in Surveyor 2.0.

EDIT: Just checked the Effects Layer in Trainz Plus and I can now save the entered parameters. That makes moving the settings between routes much easier. Perhaps the same will occur for Gamma (and Post Processing) in the near future?

pware said:

And there is the problem. I find the default value perfect for Outback Australia where I build many of my routes. But no matter what you set the "default" to, it will be satisfactory to some but not to others.

EDIT: Just checked the Effects Layer in Trainz Plus and I can now save the entered parameters. That makes moving the settings between routes much easier. Perhaps the same will occur for Gamma (and Post Processing) in the near future?

Click to expand...

But this is something that was available in TANE and TS12 and appears to be changed in TS19. Not all of us model the outback.

Cheerio John

Not all of us model the Canadian Rockies, the English Moors, the Scottish Highlands, etc. No matter what the default is set for it will not please everyone.

While I was aware of "something" called Post Processing in TANE, I never looked at it, and I don't recall ever seeing it in TS12 (but that does not mean anything). But, is TRS19 SP3 the first release where users could actually edit the PP settings?. My point here is that it could be a progression - the next release of Trainz (or a future SP update) could have the ability to save PP settings. This is what happened with Effect Layers - first appeared in TANE (???) but the ability to save the layer settings has only recently been added to Trainz Plus.

These days I typically leave my NVIDIA graphics card Control Panel open on my 2nd monitor. It has a gamma setting that can easily be changed any time. I set everything as wanted in Trainz but then if I want tweak gamma a bit I just use the control panel. Doesn't this achieve the same result? I've never changed the gamma setting in TRS-19.

Unless you create a profile just for Trainz, changing gamma or any setting in Nvidia will affect your display even after you quit the game.
Just put the gamma setting next to the brightness slider then we can forget all the rumpus over "default" settings jeesh.

nicky9499 said:

Unless you create a profile just for Trainz, changing gamma or any setting in Nvidia will affect your display even after you quit the game.
Just put the gamma setting next to the brightness slider then we can forget all the rumpus over "default" settings jeesh.

Click to expand...

Ha.. If I'm going to be in Content Manager (all white screen basically) I will slide my cursor over and change my gamma a bit. No big deal to me. Just a click of the mouse. I'm NOT saying that is the solution. Just another option. And for me.. just a fast and available option for a little help on some screens, even if temporary. I find a quick and easy tweak between full color screens and then mostly white screens helps to save my eyes!

nicky9499 said:

Unless you create a profile just for Trainz, changing gamma or any setting in Nvidia will affect your display even after you quit the game.
Just put the gamma setting next to the brightness slider then we can forget all the rumpus over "default" settings jeesh.

Click to expand...

So you are suggesting a program change by N3V?

Thanks John

johnwhelan said:

So you are suggesting a program change by N3V?

Thanks John

Click to expand...

I think it would be great if all we need is a Gamma slider alongside the Brightness slider to give us the options of either The Great Victoria Desert or The Lake District! Colin.

I usually stay away from any thread whose title suggests anything remotely technical, but I did call in here earlier today and I've been having a play on my 'Dales' route - what a difference 2.0 or even 1.8 makes, this just HAS to be a session/route specific variable, easily set by the route builder...

Andy

1611mac said:

These days I typically leave my NVIDIA graphics card Control Panel open on my 2nd monitor. It has a gamma setting that can easily be changed any time. I set everything as wanted in Trainz but then if I want tweak gamma a bit I just use the control panel. Doesn't this achieve the same result? I've never changed the gamma setting in TRS-19.

Click to expand...

Could we set up something in nVidia so that when TS19 ran it used a different gamma? Some sort of config file for the trainz software only.

Thanks John

johnwhelan said:

Could we set up something in nVidia so that when TS19 ran it used a different gamma? Some sort of config file for the trainz software only.

Thanks John

Click to expand...

Hi John - At the risk of asking a silly question, would all Trainzers automatically have nVidia, or would we be isolating some users? Colin.

Dermmy said:

I usually stay away from any thread whose title suggests anything remotely technical, but I did call in here earlier today and I've been having a play on my 'Dales' route - what a difference 2.0 or even 1.8 makes, this just HAS to be a session/route specific variable, easily set by the route builder...

Andy

Click to expand...

A setting of 2.0 did wonders for one of my routes I've been working on Andy.

KotangaGirl said:

A setting of 2.0 did wonders for one of my routes I've been working on Andy.

Click to expand...

Wouldn't it be nice if somebody from N3V actually read these comments and responded appropriately?

Driver_Col said:

Hi John - At the risk of asking a silly question, would all Trainzers automatically have nVidia, or would we be isolating some users? Colin.

Click to expand...

Yes you would as not every one is running Nvidia Cards, some AMD, some AMD APUs, some will be using Intel's on processor video as well I suspect.

Brightness slider + ambient colour + sun colour makes things as bright or dark as you want.

Here is a selection of some different settings which show that adjusting the slider and dials can make a huge difference. And I'm no artist, so people with a talent for these things can improve on any of these.

Note that it is possible to remove shadows completely, make them lighter or darker or make things completely dull.

Am I missing something that these shots don't illustrate?

Note that in the above screenshots the ambient colour setting is always shade of grey, different grey shade intensities for different lighting effects. This is the trick I found in TANE to produce the lighting effects I wanted for different geographic regions (specifically Tasmania which has a similar light to Scotland).

See https://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/How_to_Use_Environment_Tools#Ambient_Colour

Correct - if you keep the 3 dials at the same setting (use the shift key to sync them), the colour will be between white and black

But you can change both ambient and sun colour to give colder or warmer colours. (Apologies to artists who can make it look much better than this - I'm just illustrating the options).

All these pictures have the sun behind the viewer. The problem really manifests itself when you are looking generally towards the sun (ie SW to SE in the UK).