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Thread: Gamma

  1. #61
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    I guess I am missing the point (and I am certainly trying to provide a sensible discussion and not being dismissive).

    In the real world, things do indeed look different looking toward and away from the sun, or when in full light of shadow. The photograph shows "accurate lighting".

    We've had "glare" mentioned as a constant issue, yet it is possible to create or remove glare.

    I'm not saying we are at the stage of perfection, but that there are plenty of options to tweak things and I think most issues will be resolved by using what is available.

    Driver_Col - perhaps post a couple of shots of your scene with your env. settings showing and a description of what is wrong/what you're trying to achieve and we'll see what tweaks may help.
    Tony Hilliam

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  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    I'm sorry, but not only do I seem to be one of those who are obviously missing "the point" but I am failing to even see a point. I think that you are after something that does not yet exist in computer gaming video graphics systems
    Gran Turismo Sport, 2017:


    Grand Theft Auto V, 2013:


    Red Dead Redemption, 2010:

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    I guess I am missing the point (and I am certainly trying to provide a sensible discussion and not being dismissive).

    In the real world, things do indeed look different looking toward and away from the sun, or when in full light of shadow. The photograph shows "accurate lighting".

    We've had "glare" mentioned as a constant issue, yet it is possible to create or remove glare.

    I'm not saying we are at the stage of perfection, but that there are plenty of options to tweak things and I think most issues will be resolved by using what is available.

    Driver_Col - perhaps post a couple of shots of your scene with your env. settings showing and a description of what is wrong/what you're trying to achieve and we'll see what tweaks may help.
    No I wasn't talking about you Tony. In another thread where a forum member was having problems with adjusting the environmental lighting they were treated in a dismissive way by long time forum members who should know better. I should have perhaps made that a little more clear.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  4. #64
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    Back at Penzance, Ponsandane Sidings. Facing east at midday; gamma set at 2.0. Shadows set at medium; shaders at standard; post processing low; detail clutter only.
    Gamma at 2.2 makes the lighting look a bit too harsh.

    Last edited by KotangaGirl; July 28th, 2021 at 01:00 AM.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  5. #65
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    1. Your brightness slider is at 75% - move that lower (i.e. move the slider up to reduce brightness).
    2. Click in the sky preview and reduce the whiteness is each of the 3 positions
    3. Then play with Ambient and Sun colour
    4. Any water will be black so you may want to move that up some.
    Tony Hilliam

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  6. #66
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    Back at Ponsandane Sidings at midday facing east. Gamma still at 2.0. Don't anyone say that I'm not willing to listen to advice; - thanks Tony.
    The storm clouds off the sea was exactly the look that I was after for my Cornish rebuild.

    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  7. #67
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    Go back to the first post.
    The first posts asks the question about being able to save the settings, is there an answer to the question yet?

    All that is needed is a Gamma control with settings that can be saved.

    We have a large PP settings input table, which can be tweaked, but can't be saved! What is the point of it being there?




    What they get can't be saved, unbelievable.

    Cheers,

    Graham
    Last edited by euromodeller; July 28th, 2021 at 05:00 AM.
    Member of TCWW and Trainz DE.

    Currently bringing the DHR into TRS19 one tree at a time!

  8. #68
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    Who gave permission to reskin my Amplifier ! (great pic Graham)
    EMT-APictureTellsAThousandWords now on the DLS


    Can we set light/water well in TRS, absolutely
    but it lacks a user friendly master slider = gamma
    that also affects main menu and the CM viewer


    ty for the tips in this thread :-)

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    I guess I am missing the point (and I am certainly trying to provide a sensible discussion and not being dismissive).

    In the real world, things do indeed look different looking toward and away from the sun, or when in full light of shadow. The photograph shows "accurate lighting".

    We've had "glare" mentioned as a constant issue, yet it is possible to create or remove glare.

    I'm not saying we are at the stage of perfection, but that there are plenty of options to tweak things and I think most issues will be resolved by using what is available.

    Driver_Col - perhaps post a couple of shots of your scene with your env. settings showing and a description of what is wrong/what you're trying to achieve and we'll see what tweaks may help.

    Hi Tony - After monkeying around with this since 2018, I have uninstalled TRS19. However, I am quite happy to reinstall it if you have both the time and inclination to stay with this Post until the issue with brightness is resolved. Please advise. Thx. Colin.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Driver_Col View Post
    Hi Tony - After monkeying around with this since 2018, I have uninstalled TRS19. However, I am quite happy to reinstall it if you have both the time and inclination to stay with this Post until the issue with brightness is resolved. Please advise. Thx. Colin.

    Hi Tony - Further to my earlier comment, I am going to "swallow my pride" and withdraw my offer. This is perhaps best explained by a comment I made earlier today to another Trainzer on a related topic:

    "And therein is the problem. I created Routes for TRS2004, TC3 and TS12. They are all primitive by today's standards so I have to question what's the point in staying on this "carousel". I also enjoy writing (3 books published); I play guitar and keyboards; I write songs (currently being transcribed for piano); I am very comfortable working with wood and so enjoy making things; I used to run a lot and have run 4 Marathons ..... and I enjoy T-ANE. I really do not have time to screw around with the "latest and greatest" Train sim! On the Trainz Forum I have offered to reinstal TRS19 on condition that Tony Hilliam will guide me through the Environment settings, as he is convinced I am missing something. That may have been a rash move on my part because I really cannot be bothered. I have too many other interests that give me pleasure!"

    I shall wish you all the best with TRS19, but my Trainz time will be staying with T-ANE. Regards. Colin.

  11. #71
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    I'm quite concerned that people who are making and marketing a video game don't appear to understand the difference between gamma and brightness and how this effects lighting in-game. They are not the same or a substitute for one another!

    The basic problem (for anyone who isn't modelling Mars or the Outback of Australia) is the default gamma is set too high at 2.2. This leaves the users to try and 'fix' this problem with endless fiddling of the environmental controls (like setting the sun and ambient colour boxes to grey, which is far from an adequate solution.)

    The gamma needs to be reset to 2.0 either through a fix or by the additional of a session control in the next Service Pack. Otherwise the complaining about lighting will never end!

    Paul

  12. #72
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    Of course, N3V could finally sign-up with Nvidia and become a supported game with full optimisation for the majority of users that have these cards. Then we could control the gamma (and much else besides) from the Nvidia control panel.

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsw2 View Post
    The gamma needs to be reset to 2.0 either through a fix or by the additional of a session control in the next Service Pack. Otherwise the complaining about lighting will never end!
    As I posted earlier in this endless thread, it wouldn't matter what the default value is set to (2.0 or 2.2 or something else) there will always be those who will not like it. I also pointed out that the current "situation" with Gamma and the other PP settings almost exactly mirrors that with the Effect Layer settings when they were first introduced (was it in TANE??). They were set to defaults (which obviously would not suit some) and there was no way to save changes you made to them for use in other routes. Now Trainz Plus allows users to save the Effect Layer settings as separate cdp files. While this is for Trainz Plus only it will, down the track (pun intended), also appear in TRS19 or its successor.

    I suspect that the same will probably happen to the PP settings but, like all things that involve personal preferences, the complaints about lighting will never end.

    Why didn't N3V introduce saving the PP settings right from the start? You would have to ask them but I suspect that with any new (or newly revealed/accessible) properties you would not want users to be able to save them until their exact format has been finally nailed down. Otherwise you could get a similar situation that occurred between TANE and TANE SP1 (I think it was) which used incompatible map file formats.

    My opinions (and getting tired of flogging this dead horse).
    Trainz Plus build 111951 and build 114205
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsw2 View Post
    Of course, N3V could finally sign-up with Nvidia and become a supported game with full optimisation for the majority of users that have these cards. Then we could control the gamma (and much else besides) from the Nvidia control panel
    Said, I hope, with your tongue in your cheek. While I have NVidia, there will be endless complaints from those who have AMD cards and so this argument will never end.

    As an historical aside, N3Vs ancestor, Auran, did have a commercial arrangement with NVidia. In the early days of Trainz they created an NVidia exclusive game called "Bridge It" in which players had to create a railway bridge across a gorge that would withstand the weight of a passing train.
    Trainz Plus build 111951 and build 114205
    Trainz Simulator 3 (Mobile)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    As I posted earlier in this endless thread, it wouldn't matter what the default value is set to (2.0 or 2.2 or something else) there will always be those who will not like it. I also pointed out that the current "situation" with Gamma and the other PP settings almost exactly mirrors that with the Effect Layer settings when they were first introduced (was it in TANE??). They were set to defaults (which obviously would not suit some) and there was no way to save changes you made to them for use in other routes. Now Trainz Plus allows users to save the Effect Layer settings as separate cdp files. While this is for Trainz Plus only it will, down the track (pun intended), also appear in TRS19 or its successor.

    I suspect that the same will probably happen to the PP settings but, like all things that involve personal preferences, the complaints about lighting will never end.

    Why didn't N3V introduce saving the PP settings right from the start? You would have to ask them but I suspect that with any new (or newly revealed/accessible) properties you would not want users to be able to save them until their exact format has been finally nailed down. Otherwise you could get a similar situation that occurred between TANE and TANE SP1 (I think it was) which used incompatible map file formats.

    My opinions (and getting tired of flogging this dead horse).

    So you are suggesting that doing nothing is okay because you cannot please everybody? See anything wrong in that logic? As for getting tired of "flogging this dead horse"? Please do us all a favour and stop flogging it. Regards. Colin.

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