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Thread: Gamma

  1. #1
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    Default Gamma

    In TS12 you could set it and everything just worked.

    In TS19 apparently it can be set but it needs to be reset every time you start the program. Setting it off the default value does allow much more realistic lighting for UK layouts in TS19.

    Am I missing some sort of setting that makes TS19 keep the reset gamma?

    Thanks John

  2. #2
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    In TS12 you could set it and everything just worked.

    In TS19 apparently it can be set but it needs to be reset every time you start the program. Setting it off the default value does allow much more realistic lighting for UK layouts in TS19.

    Am I missing some sort of setting that makes TS19 keep the reset gamma?

    Thanks John
    I really hope N3V does something here. I've been wasting my time since TRS19 was first released, just trying to get accurate lighting for a UK rural setting. TRS19 is certainly capable now, except when the viewer goes through a 180 degree change in viewing angle. Needless to say I am still with T-ANE and see no reason to move my Routes into TRS19. While I recognize that 3rd party Route builders are not the prime focus of N3V, this situation is disappointing and disheartening. Something has to be done with the lighting if TRS19 is to be taken seriously.

  3. #3
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    Default

    After having been doomed for far too long to nothing but overcast-looks-like-it-might-rain skies in order to damp down TRS19's supernova lighting I was kindly shown how to adjust the gamma settings in TRS19; - just like I used to be able to do really easily in TS2012!!! Only it doesn't stick as the setting can't be saved and it has to be set every time I start up TRS19. Throw on top of that the fact that the menu is hidden away and needs to have a tick box selected to access the post-processing control settings it all starts to make me wonder what N3V were thinking when they set up their new 'magic' environmental lighting.

    Sample snapshots with identical environmental settings and time of day.

    Without Gamma adjustment.




    With Gamma adjustment.

    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  4. #4
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    Default

    I hope you two realise that there's now a new Brightness slider in the Edit Environment... dialog (Session edit mode, Surveyor) which setting parameters you can save to the session to ensure persistence each time you restart the session?
    It is a vertical bar control - on the right-hand side of the dialog adjacent to the colour preview palettes - and can be adjusted up and down for each time segment you've set for the session.
    Since technically, gamma and brightness are closely related in terms of what can be digitally saved to ensure luminance levels meet your eye's tastes, sensitivities and expectations, the brightness slider - with judicious application - will certainly do the trick!
    (The inability to save custom Post Processing settings in T:ANE and TRS19 is an ongoing embarrassment).



    ***___***_***_***_***_***_***Brightness Slider***
    I find that I can replicate the dreary Northern Hemisphere Winter gloom quite convincingly here without having to resort to the PP settings.
    Last edited by PC_Ace; July 21st, 2021 at 10:52 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default

    I'm a reskinner and I do texture work Ace so I know the difference between 'brightness' and 'gamma'; - and the brightness slider doesn't and can't completely achieve what can be done with being able to adjust the gamma setting as well. I purchased the original TS2019 not long after it was first released and Colin has been working at trying to tame TS2019's environmental lighting for a good long while now, - so yes we both knew about the brightness slider.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  6. #6
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    Default

    OK, where is this "Gamma" setting? The only lighting/brightness controls in TRS19 that I am aware of are in the Environment Tools.

    I just ran a test on the Environment Tools in Trainz Plus (build 111951). I altered the brightness control for a session, saved the session, exited TRS19. Reloaded TRS19 and the saved route/session and the brightness control was exactly where I left it when I saved.

    Or am I missing something?

    Confused.
    TRS19 Plus build 111951 and build 113142
    Trainz Simulator 3 (Mobile)

  7. #7
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    Default

    They keep it hidden Mr P. I find a setting of 2.0 works well for my routes, but that might vary depending on your monitor and/or video card.

    Last edited by KotangaGirl; July 22nd, 2021 at 12:49 AM. Reason: more information
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  8. #8
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    Default

    Just to add to Annie's post, you find it in the developer tab at the top of the start screen.

    I don't understand the logic of allowing you to make adjustments, but not allowing them to be saved.

    All that dev time to give us the controls has been wasted on a feature that reverts back to the default when you close the game.

    Graham


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamma_correction
    Member of TCWW and Trainz DE.

    Currently bringing the DHR into TRS19 one tree at a time!

  9. #9
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    Does this mean that the GAMMA value is not transportable with a route, or asset, placed on the Download Station? If so, the developer gets the presentation of their work to their liking, but it is not available to others who might then be disappointed by the poor lighting distribution?
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PC_Ace View Post
    I hope you two realise that there's now a new Brightness slider in the Edit Environment... dialog (Session edit mode, Surveyor) which setting parameters you can save to the session to ensure persistence each time you restart the session?
    It is a vertical bar control - on the right-hand side of the dialog adjacent to the colour preview palettes - and can be adjusted up and down for each time segment you've set for the session.
    Since technically, gamma and brightness are closely related in terms of what can be digitally saved to ensure luminance levels meet your eye's tastes, sensitivities and expectations, the brightness slider - with judicious application - will certainly do the trick!
    (The inability to save custom Post Processing settings in T:ANE and TRS19 is an ongoing embarrassment).



    ***___***_***_***_***_***_***Brightness Slider***
    I find that I can replicate the dreary Northern Hemisphere Winter gloom quite convincingly here without having to resort to the PP settings.
    Really? I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume this was an innocent desire to help but come on .......... after fiddling with TRS19 for pretty much 3 years, and considering that lighting was/is the focus, and noting that the vertical slider is right alongside the other Environment controls...................................

  11. #11
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    Does this mean that the GAMMA value is not transportable with a route, or asset, placed on the Download Station? If so, the developer gets the presentation of their work to their liking, but it is not available to others who might then be disappointed by the poor lighting distribution?

    Basically yes.

    Cheerio John

  12. #12
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    Default

    Granted I can get a reasonable UK appearance however for most users a simple adjustment of gamma and allowing it to either be changed or have an in game slider or similar would make the exceedingly tedious task of messing with environmental controls to represent a typical UK environment rather than that of the Mojave Desert or Australian Outback so much easier. It needs a simple savable approach that doesn't need a degree in complicatedness to sort out.

    As an aside, I seem to recollect that saving the additional Post processing settings was on the "to do list" at one point as far back as TANE.
    Malc


  13. #13
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    Default

    It's been obvious for quite a while that there is a TRS19 lighting problem for a significant portion of the user-base (mainly UK modellers) and it's a shame that n3v don't feel able to acknowledge it. I must have tried virtually every environmental control permutation by now and my experience is that it's easy enough to model UK winter gloom but if you want shadows (and they add so much to realism) then you always have to keep the sun behind you. This looks fine enough but it's an annoying constraint that you can't look anywhere near the direction of the sun without getting the supernova problem. If this can't be fixed we'll have to live with it but let's not pretend it's a collective hallucination.
    Member of trainz-carriage-wagon-works

  14. #14
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    Default

    At the moment Ken is showing some very nice screenshots in TANE. I think if TS19 is to become more widely used then something needs go be done.


    Either a set of instructions on how to save the changes or better still modify the software to get rid if this undocumented system feature.

    Thanks John

  15. #15
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    Default

    As a US Trainz User, I'll state that I notice the difference when adjusting the gamma and find it strange that there isn't an option to save the post-processing settings.
    Nick Ozorak


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