Consists Vanished From Session?

Have I discovered another bug in '19.

Setting up a demo session for my Bagnelastown Model route I had two trains set to orbit the route in each direction. Tested yesterday and worked fine.
Loaded the route this morning to tinker a bit with the session and find two of the consists have vanished, though they are still referenced in the Session Menu complete with the command strings I set up.
I am not going mad.
I did not delete the trains.
Can someone please explain what's going on?!

Well it's just done it again...
Opened the session for a quick edit and found one of the (was) six consists has vanished.
Well that's it, layout getting uploaded "as is" and off to try something in DTG TS instead.

Hi Vern, when i'm making sessions, I try to work systematic:
-Don't use UDI (i don't have it so that's easy)
-Don't edit the route at the same time
-take care your trains/consist are all placed in the sessionlayer
-after a few edits save the session (not default but a name that makes sense)
-go out of the game complete, and restart to try the session (no f2)


Trains can get lost if:
-the layer they are on is turned off
-you edited the trains intense (they can become ghosts)
-they are derailed and then removed by the game
-you didn't save the session after placing


don't give up yet
greetings GM

I am pretty sure I ticked all those boxes GM. All the editing was done by exiting the route, going to the specific session and editing from there. I haven't got UDI (Universal Driver Interface?) either, being on the standard edition of '19.
The session was always saved before exiting and again I actually run/test it by launching the run session rather quick drive from the editor.
Hopefully it's just a weird glitch; first time I've had it happen for sure.

There's the other gottcha...

Make sure you're editing the right version of your session. You know the "will the right session-name please stand up" thing that happens when we save. I've wondered countless times how many of us have been caught with default sessions out numbering the number of routes on our hard drives.

If there was a glitch of some kind, ensure nothing is open for edit, or somehow became faulty. If the session is left open for edit, it won't show up for sure. I've been there and done that a few times.

Remember the good old days when it was so simple, no layers no sessions just build a world place some trains and of you go

railventure said:

Remember the good old days when it was so simple, no layers no sessions just build a world place some trains and of you go

Click to expand...

I sure do! I still try to work that way and use layers sparingly. I'm a firm believer in KISS.

I use layers on my model projects to separate elements such as basemaps or the fascia/room parts but these are all merged into the route layer prior to working on the session.

I assure you Vern you are not going mad, and YES it is a(nother) bug. I just had the EXACT SAME SITUATION with a session I'm working on for the Pittsburg to Altoona route. I have a large number of AI trains as it's a large route (still looks empty in the yards though), and luckily I'd sent a copy to a friend to test. In my case both drivers #2 and #3 vanished overnight. There is absolutely no error on my part, I know full well what a session is and layers, and there's no extra layers anyway.

In my case I could ask my friend where and what the trains were and rebuilt them, but wait, there's more. Later one night I started playing the session but after half an hour I decided to go to bed and saved it, obviously with a new name. Note that this is a 4 hour session. Reloaded first thing in the morning, going straight to the session, and continued playing to check everything. (Dash, just got caught speeding whilst writing that on same session!). After awhile I noticed one portal wasn't emitting any trains, so I went to check. The portal was gone - poof!

Luckily the portal is still in the original session and route. This may well be the last TRS19 session I make, I'm going back to Tane so I don't pull my hair out. AI is so stupid it can't see a trackmark directly in front of it, or throw one switch to allow it to continue. Far too many headaches not to mention versions of TRS19. tane, here I come lol.

Definitely a major bug in TRS19. I have had the same problem several times. I can run a consist and save the consist (session) several times with no problem. Then I return to continue my latest saved session and my train is gone. Not only is it gone from my latest saved session but it has disappeared in all saved sessions all the way back to the original session. If you search long enough for it you will find the train out in in some remote area of the route with all the cars piled on top of one another. Very disgusting and N3V has had this reported but apparently is doing nothing to fix this problem. Because of this I have pretty much stopped using TRS19.

Appreciate the affirmation guys.
Over to N3V then...

torino72 said:

Very disgusting and N3V has had this reported but apparently is doing nothing to fix this problem.

Click to expand...

It always amazes me when posters state that N3V is "doing nothing to fix this problem". How do you know that they are "doing nothing"? Have they told you? Has Tony posted something along the lines of "this is a trivial problem and it is not worth wasting our valuable time to even look at it"?

I have lost count of the number of bugs that I have reported in the various beta versions of Trainz over the years. I can report that while a few of them have taken a long time to be fixed (a year or more) they were all eventually fixed. I don't know how many programmers N3V employ, probably not many and certainly far fewer than Microsoft and Apple (and I have read of "bugs" in their products that have been known about for years and are still not fixed despite all their vast resources).

Unfortunately, it is human nature to see that any problem that annoys you personally (such as disappearing consists) is obviously the most important issue affecting the program and it has to be fixed now and "they" need to devote all their resources to fixing the problem, immediately!

Patience, Grasshoppers.

My thoughts.

Well it's not like they publish a roadmap of what they are working on...

And I would regard consists vanishing from a would be train simulator a fairly fundamental bug, which ought to be a fairly high priority for whatever programming capacity the outfit has these days.

In the meantime, yes looks like it's back to TANE.

torino72 said:

Definitely a major bug in TRS19. I have had the same problem several times. I can run a consist and save the consist (session) several times with no problem. Then I return to continue my latest saved session and my train is gone. Not only is it gone from my latest saved session but it has disappeared in all saved sessions all the way back to the original session. If you search long enough for it you will find the train out in in some remote area of the route with all the cars piled on top of one another. Very disgusting and N3V has had this reported but apparently is doing nothing to fix this problem. Because of this I have pretty much stopped using TRS19.

Click to expand...

This is a known bug I reported. N3V has been working on this one for some time and has something to do with consists losing their location and ending up at the world origin. I discovered and reported this originally in TRS19 SP1 when a freight yard on my test route was completely empty when I opened up the route one day for testing. As I went about replacing freight cars, I noticed what appeared to be a star-like arrangement of derailed freight cars out in the ocean. When I investigated, and wiggled the freight cars, some popped back into place and others had to be deleted.

Vern said:

Well it's not like they publish a roadmap of what they are working on...

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And for good reason. If they publish a statement like "this should be fixed in the next SP/HF release the next quarter" and the quarter comes and goes or the promised SP/HF does not include the "fix", then what would be the reaction in these forums? Any programmer will tell you that "fixing" one problem can create many more so a cautious and often time consuming approach is needed, but still without any guarantees.

Vern said:

And I would regard consists vanishing from a would be train simulator a fairly fundamental bug, which ought to be a fairly high priority for whatever programming capacity the outfit has these days.

Click to expand...

It possibly does have a high priority, I would not know and neither would anyone else. But do users want a "quick fix" or a fix that works?

Pware it's really nice you defend N3V and I'm sure they appreciate it as well. But let's be realistic if possible, as stated above this has been reported back in SP1 days, and I noted a similar problem in the Cornish Route, so it's not a rare or low level problem, it is MAJOR. Nobody suggested we expect a quick fix, but when did SP1 come out, last year or the year before? So this is a known problem of at least 1 year, possible 2. No fix in SP2 and none in SP3. Maybe they have it as a high priority, but clearly haven't found the cause yet. Limited staff, we know this so well as it's waved in our faces so frequently, probably as frequently as problems are reported. Some constructive critisims should be accepted at face value, not rebuked. If N3V don't take this problem seriously (and I'm not saying they haven't) then they won't stay in business, and I'm pretty sure none of us want to see them fail.

The short version is, fix the problem or fail completely. I've spent over a month creating this TRS19 session, and it will be the last probably as I'm going back to Tane, so I don't have all these headaches. Given the number of other people who are doing the same plus the unknown number who haven't stated they are doing this, is something N3V also need to consider. As has been said (and ignored) by many people, if they put out another patch (which they will), it MUST focus on fixing problems, and NOT add new features to create more problems. PERIOD.

I have no doubt that some users are experiencing a problem with missing consists. I note that those who have posted about the issue in this thread seem to be using TRS19 (standard version), but that could be an observation based on a very limited sample. I am using TRS19 Platinum Edition and have been extensively working with sessions with lots of consists and none have gone missing. Could this be an issue with sessions created with build numbers less than 4.8 (the build used by TRS19 PE)?

As for insisting that N3V (or any software development company) drop all their current projects to concentrate entirely on fixing this or that problem - that is a recipe for failure. Anyone who understands the operation of the software development cycle would know this. This is an argument that crops up every time a new software version (of any product) is released.

My opinions.

TRS19 Standard Edition confirmed... However the version should have no bearing on whether or not basic functionality should operate correctly.

In the meantime, firing up TANE after a gap of some months, I discovered a few interesting projects lying dormant which I'd quite forgotten about. Time to see how they rock.

Vern said:

TRS19 Standard Edition confirmed... However the version should have no bearing on whether or not basic functionality should operate correctly.

Click to expand...

Except that there has been a significant change in the way that the location of consists is handled by the different versions. According to N3V the location of consists in TRS19 Platinum Edition and Trainz Plus is now stored in the Session - I really have no idea where that data was stored in earlier versions, most likely the Route. This change was made to accommodate the UDS interface found in TRS19 PE and Trainz Plus.

No need to get mad or frustrated over Trainz


N3v is a very small company, we are lucky if there are 2 programmers and maybe 1 scripter
don't expect anything to be fixed instantly when you see a problem.
What for you is important may be very low on their "todo" list.


Problems that sometimes can be avoided:
-if portals are buggy, don't use 'm,
instant move train or 1 extra baseboard with a return loop or shadow station works always fine
-If you make routes do the base in TANE, then move to TRS19 (before SP1) to add turfx/clutter
added benefit all TANE and TRS19 users(any version) can use it.
-If complex items don't work try simple first
-Remove items that give script errors (simply don't use 'm)
-Ghost trains, work systematic and in versions before SP1 to make sessions
-always keep backups of Routes and Trainz versions, so you can go back


I put my requests/wishes in Suggestion boxcar thread, if it won't get used,
no problem, for everything I have (or can make) a workaround
Made my own, driverlist, interface(SDCR), junction arrows, main menu, moving driver, 3rd speedometer
next will maybe be:the sounds, the grid, the passengers, point lights, no hurry whatsoever


Find a version you like(newer is not always better) still prefer build 100240
and just have fun with trainz
greetings GM