TR19 on MacMini M1 8/256: to whom may concern

Hi.
I apologize if this argument has been already discussed (I didn't find anything through Search option) or of any interest.

As an Apple's fan and technician since 1992 I bought for testing a Mac Mini 2020 M1 with 8 gbytes of RAM and 256 of ssd (the later is of secondary importance). Please mind that I also own an Imac 27" 2020 64/512 with AMD 5500xt. Therefore the comparison is not very right (low level Mac vs high lebel Mac) but this are the Macs I have and for these I can say.

I'll go directly to the end: the M1 MacMini is really impressive. I knew that the unified memory architecture and ARM CPU's where great but I didn't imagine such a performance at 360° and especially in TRS19. Some numbers: Mac OS Big Sur in idle is around 4-4,5 gbytes of ram occupation; after loading TRS19 is 6-6,5. Great and very fast memory swapping (the internal disk is very fast by it's own, by the way).

The overall performance at 2K is impressive and looses a 20% at 2,5K (as you know 4K is no more available, so I can't test). Everything is more smooth than on Intel procs (either on Mac OS or Bootcamp/Win 10). Enhancing quality settings has less impact on performance than on the iMac. If this looks normal because is just at 2K I underline that is only an 8 gbyte machine and handles OS, game and graphics memory like a charm.

These are the settings:
- shadow quality medium
- main shadow resolution: 2048
- shader quality: standard
- texture detail: high
- post processing: high
- water quality: high
- detail scenery: clutter only
- AA: 8x
- detail update rate: ultra (as I don't enable back objects drawing, I want a fast drawing)
///
- maximum draw distance: may vary between 4 and 15 kms depending on the scenario (normally 4-8). The Sebino Lake scenario (20 min from my home, by the way) with 15 km distance drops the frame rate to 20-25 fps. It's nornal also on the iMac. But this is a scenario which needs a long distance, IMHO. For comparison, all Niddderbaltan scenarios (which don't need al long distance view -> 4 Kms) rarely run at less than 45 fps.
- scenery detail: high
- tree detail: ultra
- post processing high

Concluding: I'm far more impressed than I though and I'm confident (and hope) an eventual SP4 version could bring further improvements both in the code and in the Metal implemetation.

Cheers
Simon

That's good news, I'm hoping they will drop an M2 ( or whatever the next gen chip is called) with better graphics capabilities into the next gen Mac min as I won't buy iMacs and I cant afford a new mac pro........ well,I could but my wife would leave me if i purchased one and from what I hear you can really only take advantage of its full capabilities on optimized apps.

dangavel said:

That's good news, I'm hoping they will drop an M2 ( or whatever the next gen chip is called) with better graphics capabilities into the next gen Mac min as I won't buy iMacs and I cant afford a new mac pro........ well,I could but my wife would leave me if i purchased one and from what I hear you can really only take advantage of its full capabilities on optimized apps.

Click to expand...

hi.
This is my opinion(based on Apple’s policy on ARMs on phones and tablets):
- M1, M2, M3… one per year for low end machines (13/14” MBpros, Air, Mini, small iMacs)
- M1X, M2X, M3x one per year for mid level machines (16” MBPros and 27-30” iMacs)
- M1?, M2?, M3?, one per year for yet announced high level machines (Mac Pro for example)

If I was in Apple I would suppress the iMac 27/30 in favour of just an iMac Pro. Just a name change but the Pro didn’t sell, then…

I’m very impressed with our M1 Macs. I’m not sure what the next version will be called, however it will be improved as Apple is planning on replacing all their Macs with their own silicon. Any silicon meant for the Mac Pros will have to be vastly improved over the M1s to satisfy the pros.

Out of curiosity, how does the game perform if you crank everything up to max?

I'm very interested in the M1 Macs - especially the Mac Mini - but I can't really find any way to compare it against my PC.

Comparing Geekbench CPU scores, the M1 MM demolishes my i7-7700K, but in GPU scores, the GTX 1070 absolutely obliterates the M1's integrated graphics.

Matt

epa said:

Out of curiosity, how does the game perform if you crank everything up to max?
I'm very interested in the M1 Macs - especially the Mac Mini - but I can't really find any way to compare it against my PC.
Comparing Geekbench CPU scores, the M1 MM demolishes my i7-7700K, but in GPU scores, the GTX 1070 absolutely obliterates the M1's integrated graphics.
Matt

Click to expand...

Hi Matt.

Although the M1 soc has improved previous performance in graphics for about a 6x, it’s a comparison with the Intel chips internal GPU. Therefore although speed improvement is vast I do not need to perform any test to already know that the performance is comparable to an AMD 5300XT and an Intel i7 10th gen @4,0 ghz. I have experience on 5500xt and 5700xt and the latter performed as my MacMini but at 4K.

If you would still have a test result please let me know the route, the situation and clarify me what you mean with “cranking everything up” because I suspect it could be playable at full settings except for distance at 15 kms and/or 4Kz

Please mind that although impressive it’s still “impressive” if compared to the previous MacMini but remains a low level machine in the Apple gamma.

By the way… I’m not concerned about benches because it’s a very completely different concept of MB design. Just a note: it’s comparable to my iMac 27” 2020 i7@3.8 -64/512 - AMD 5500xt (a bit slower in graphics) but in Handbrake encoding the latter is 100% faster.

epa said:

Out of curiosity, how does the game perform if you crank everything up to max?
I'm very interested in the M1 Macs - especially the Mac Mini - but I can't really find any way to compare it against my PC.
Comparing geekbench CPU scores, the M1 MM demolishes my i7-7700K, but in GPU scores, the GTX 1070 absolutely obliterates the M1's integrated graphics.
Matt

Click to expand...

Here a number: Niddertalbahn route SZ 91 100 AVMZ Intecity 71 (pax consist, first from left), stuck at statup in station awaitng for green light: 49 fps circa in medium settings + high Texture rendering and Ultra pbackground redraw - 6 Kms distance view. With all performance settings at top and same distance view: 9 fps.

Cheers
Simon

majortom100967 said:

Here a number: Niddertalbahn route SZ 91 100 AVMZ Intecity 71 (pax consist, first from left), stuck at statup in station awaitng for green light: 49 fps circa in medium settings + high Texture rendering and Ultra pbackground redraw - 6 Kms distance view. With all performance settings at top and same distance view: 9 fps.

Cheers
Simon

Click to expand...

Ouch!

Thanks for checking that. I'm still tossing around the idea picking up an M1 Mac Mini as a toy, but it sounds like the Trainz experience isn't even going to be in the same ball park as my PC.

Matt

epa said:

Ouch!
Thanks for checking that. I'm still tossing around the idea picking up an M1 Mac Mini as a toy, but it sounds like the Trainz experience isn't even going to be in the same ball park as my PC.
Matt

Click to expand...

A "toy" for TRS19 at full graphics settings?

majortom100967 said:

A "toy" for TRS19 at full graphics settings?

Click to expand...

I made my uintah route on my old 2010 Mac Pro, which has an 8gb Rx 580, it's VERY highly detailed , I was using tANE 2019, id be really interested to see how well it performs on your Mac mini if you ever run it on there. I get a very small degree of stuttering at max levels , but it takes ages to fully display in surveyor . I'm considering either the most highly specified Mac mini or the cheapest Mac studio, but it would only be worth it if I can transition to a new Mac which will outperform what I have . It may be better to wait another year and see what the newer Mac minis may offer if they have an m2 chip. I will have to buy a new Mac eventually as the old Mac pros won't support trainz 2022 and I can't stay with tANE and early versions of 2019 indefinitely .

dangavel said:

I made my uintah route on my old 2010 Mac Pro, which has an 8gb Rx 580, it's VERY highly detailed , I was using tANE 2019, id be really interested to see how well it performs on your Mac mini if you ever run it on there. I get a very small degree of stuttering at max levels , but it takes ages to fully display in surveyor . I'm considering either the most highly specified Mac mini or the cheapest Mac studio, but it would only be worth it if I can transition to a new Mac which will outperform what I have . It may be better to wait another year and see what the newer Mac minis may offer if they have an m2 chip. I will have to buy a new Mac eventually as the old Mac pros won't support trainz 2022 and I can't stay with tANE and early versions of 2019 indefinitely .

Click to expand...

Tane woldn't have much sense as M1 uses the Metal graphics (much much better than open GL). Better swith to 19 or 22. Regarding performane I'm still waiting for the definitive release of the 22 but I can say that it works pretty well on 16 gpu cores. An M2 alone wouldn't improve performance a lot vs M1 (30% is supposed to be as per actual rumors). A good solution could be a Mac Mini Pro (either M1 or M2).

majortom100967 said:

Tane woldn't have much sense as M1 uses the Metal graphics (much much better than open GL). Better swith to 19 or 22. Regarding performane I'm still waiting for the definitive release of the 22 but I can say that it works pretty well on 16 gpu cores. An M2 alone wouldn't improve performance a lot vs M1 (30% is supposed to be as per actual rumors). A good solution could be a Mac Mini Pro (either M1 or M2).

Click to expand...

I continue to use TANE sp3 as it has less issues than SP4 and that's what I started to create the route with in 2017, nothing I've seen will make me move to sp4, the intention is to possibly update this route in 2019 once its complete if its worth the effort , Ive been told it looks nice and runs well in 2022 as it is , but of course that's running it on a PC. .

As I cant use turf FX (as macs no longer support nvidia cards) and I don't like and also cannot create my own PBE textures , I need a really good reason to move to more recent versions of 2019 with all their issues.

As no one on a silicon mac has ever tried it out to my knowledge and I don't want to spend over $2000 to see if there's significant improvement ,or even if it runs as well as the mac pro , I will only move on when 2022 is up and running with as few glitches as possible

.........so being realistic, that's probably more than a years time, by then apple should have made some new decisions on the mac mini, the studio is tempting , but i really have no use for it unless I'm running trainz .