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Thread: Lost All M:ULTRA trees - Several Routes

  1. #1
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    Question Lost All M:ULTRA trees - Several Routes

    First, it was my fault for not anticipating the removal of M:ULTRA trees by N3V. They were, in my view, perfect for the routes I had, which were mainly North Eastern USA. They were very close to the trees I see in my back yard, which is a small forest. I knew that someday they would be put in the bin. But, I kept putting it off replacement as other N3V things were more attractive. Also, I hoped that N3V might leave them on the database. Dumb thinking!!

    Since now there is only a placeholder reference in the database there is no way I can see to reconstitute those trees just to allow an opportunity to replace them. The placeholder does not seem to offer replacement. The actual functional parameters for the trees is gone. CDP Backup yields the same missing status since the functional descriptors are only on the database.

    If anyone knows of a process to recover the trees, so I can replace them, I would certainly appreciate it.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

  2. #2
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    I didn't think N3V removed anything from the dls. There are assets there with build version 1.3. Can't say I've used those trees as they looked dated to me. Hopefully someone has an answer to this.

  3. #3
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    Maybe the name changed?

    There are trees by Mcguirrel in CM under the name of M: (URST)

    e.g. <kuid2:72938:46002:1> M: (URST) Broadleaf01_23m (UltraScenery)

    also with this name configuration..

    <kuid2:72938:43304:1> M: (D) UltraTreez - Desert Olive 04 (Desert Series)

    <kuid2:72938:43323:1> M: (D) UltraShrubs-Desert Texas Sage 03 (Desert Series)


    Hope this helps

    Graham
    Last edited by euromodeller; June 21st, 2021 at 07:23 AM.
    Member of TCWW and Trainz DE.

    Currently bringing the DHR into TRS19 one tree at a time!

  4. #4
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    Replace them in TS12 with billboards, replace the billboards in TANE / TRS19 with Speed Trees.

    The Ultra Trees are still on the DLS just are the wrong version for TANE and TRS19 so won't work.
    Malc


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    Go to Content Manager in TRS19-Platinum. In the search box in the Installed list, type "M: (Urst) " and see how many Built-in trees by mcguirel turn up.
    These are the freeware trees created for T:ANE and which work well in both TRS19 and T:ANE.
    Last edited by PC_Ace; June 21st, 2021 at 08:02 AM.

  6. #6
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    I displayed all of the "m: ULTRA" items. They were in various conditions. I was able to do a Download on some items but all that changed was the status to Faulty for all of those items. I see no recourse from Faulty condition. Maybe some or all could be corrected. But, at some point there is a strong probability that they would once again trigger a markup of Faulty.

    So, I will delete all of the faulty Ultra assets. Actually, I was surprised that eliminating the Ultra stuff the forested hills did not look too bad. I found that SAM trees had some items whose foliage was much like the ULTRA series. They will fill any noticeable gaps.

    Unfortunately, you cannot do a Replace based on Faulty items. So, some work to populate areas that look too barren.

    Thanks to all for the commentary. Even if I did not fix the problems it was a learning experience. Time for a manual purge/replace....
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

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    The trees are faulty because they are the older Speed Tree version. IDV does not allow for an upgrade path with their trees. When N3V upgraded to the current Speed Tree engine, to work with TANE and up, the old assets unfortunately have to be scrapped.

    The solution for us, i.e. a workaround, is to change the assets out ahead of time in the version where they worked. In our case, this is TS12. As Malc (Clam1952) suggested, you can use old billboard trees and it doesn't matter who made them.

    Once all the trees are replaced, you then export the rout to a CDP and import that into TANE or TRS19 where you can upgrade them to TANE/TRS19 compatible Speed Trees.

    The alternative is to first update all your trees to RMMs equivalents in TS12 and export the route. In TANE/TRS19, install RMM's trees. I recommend them all because he has all kinds of nice ones including some nice-looking spruce and pines. When you import your route into TANE/TRS19, his TS12 versions are automatically obsoleted. This method saves the double replacement step and made the process a bit quicker.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 109641

  8. #8
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    I took another tack. I already had a lot of SAM Trees installed on the route for variety. Actually I only needed to add a few more throughout the route to achieve a reasonable density. I may just try your process anyhow. Then keep the results in reserve in case the Sam trees get a negative status some Saturday night.

    So, Thanks.......
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

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    Hi Dick near Pittsburgh,

    I use T:ANE SP3.

    My route ( in progress) is of north Central NY state, and the vegetation looks similar to yours in PA. I've used M:URST trees too, and still do use mainly the "broadleaf" trees. Other than the Broadleaf's, I've replaced almost all of the other trees with trees from other tree makers....stmm, CL trees, Roys trees, and still some from JVC A big reason for the switch is that I can reskin the colors and brightness to look more natural for the north east USA region. ( I haven't reached out for permission, as I haven't shared any. If / when I do, I will )
    After seeing this thread today, I put a few screenshots of the woods on the Gallery here.
    What I might do, if it would help, is to start a "woods" thread in the screenshot section and invite anyone to post pictures of woods from their routes from different areas. Maybe we could share info and help each other out, trying to capture the right look for what we're after.
    I'm posting 3 shots here from my route that don't include any M:URST trees in them... ( why your M:URST trees disappeared is a mystery....I hope mine don't ! )
    Using pics from Google Earth, and some that I took, I use them to try and model the scenes from. I'm after both what looks acceptable and good frame rates. It's a real challenge but so far working out.
    Especially since we're both doing routes in the northeast, I figure we can probably learn from each other. Let me know if you think me starting a thread in the screenshots section interests you at all. Good luck with the trees !


    Last edited by JimDep; June 22nd, 2021 at 03:15 PM.
    T:ANE Standard SP2 to SP3
    TRS 2012 build 61388

  10. #10
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    @ JImDep

    For any of my stuff such as CL trees you don't need to ask for permission, I've posted on here in the permissions thread that reskining anything is ok so long as it's not an exact clone, no need to ask.
    Malc


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    Well I have to correct myself, now that I've actually loaded the game and my current WIP route (Townsville) There are a bunch of M: (URST) trees - in TRS19, that work properly and look good. Most of these are actually 'built-in'. Why yours have vanished really is odd, I hope you can get to the bottom of that. I presume you've done an EDBR?

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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    @ JImDep

    For any of my stuff such as CL trees you don't need to ask for permission, I've posted on here in the permissions thread that reskining anything is ok so long as it's not an exact clone, no need to ask.
    Thanks Sir Clam......I didn't know that. Thanks for making and sharing your trees and other great content.
    T:ANE Standard SP2 to SP3
    TRS 2012 build 61388

  13. #13
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    I have used the Ultra series of trees for years. At least three times the weekend purges of the "improperly spec'd" trees has left those trees in the rejected category. Then sometime later I find the same trees now pass the the appropriate N3V tests and are loadable. A few years later, they once again suffer a weekend reclassification and I am left scrambling. Each time I pledge to never load them again but remain drawn to them.

    The "other trees" on the DLS seem to suffer from both coloring, brightness and gradation of color. But maybe somewhere on Earth they are perfect. The other failure is LOD where the trees switch suddenly between bright green and darker greens. The contrast is far from correct. Perhaps more dark to bright "steps" is the answer there. Monolithic trees in my area just are not real . Take a tree and make maybe 5 variations of color and brightness. Randomly sprinkle them around to make a forest. But will it be appreciated? After-all this is a railroad simulator, re-cast as a game to attract a broader spectrum of customers.

    In the pictures above, the lighter leaves have a blue cast. Also just 2 light settings is a big issue. Sudden changes from bright sun to cloudy sun (or shade) is not real. Cloud, humidity, polution or Earth caused shadows are not sudden and sharp. An exception would be in the desert where low humidity, clean air and physically "sharp" hills can create quite defined shadows.

    This viewpoint could be my monitor and settings. My color balance is based upon studio/live television programs. I like to switch to news programs periodically. Ever since I built a 21" color TV (Heathkit) I have been obsessed with color on TV. My wife constantly complained about no back on the TV so I could keep it "tuned". There was only 26,000 volts in there.

    My little forest has several different species. I am no arborist thus the names are a mystery. The lighter leaves are close to uniform in color and reflectivity but not so extreme that they "stand-out". Nature's blending is well-done. It is expensive to recreate on a PC.

    Moving down to the trunk (and branches) I totally avoid trees with bright white trunks and branches. Very unreal around here. Looks like a "Johnny Appleseed" went through the N3V forest and "whitewashed" the trees once a year. A few birches here and there are good, but bright white trunks ain't real.

    There are bright leaved trees here. However, they are "nursery trees" bred to be dramatic.

    Having said all that the bottom line is "In The Eye of The Beholder".
    Last edited by boleyd; June 22nd, 2021 at 08:08 AM.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

  14. #14
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    Great observations and I respect your dedication for wanting to get it right. Possibly.........some of the details you state have to do with our monitors and settings. In my reskins, I have subdued the color saturation balance and did the same with my monitor. The reason is that, to my eyes, some of the trees, and content in general look over saturated in their original appearance.

    I want to get it right too.
    My route(s) ....when completed will cover several counties in central NY. Some of the vegetation is not found in all counties. What's found near the tracks in Broome county, on the southern end is vastly different than what you'd see near the Adirondack mountains in St. Lawrence County on the northern end
    Using the NY state vegetation guide, broken down for each county, and what trees in that county, here's a few from a list I made. I cross-referenced it to what trees are available for T:ANE and their foreign name translations:

    This is a small sample covering a few tree varieties found from one county to the next and the descriptions given by the state ( a few of my notes for what counties the are not found in). The list is long......but here's a few. Doing a similar list for your area, I think would help:

    ZONES 4 & 5
    Watertown: Jefferson Cnty
    Carthage: Jefferson Cnty
    Lowville: Lewis County

    Russian (RMM) Russian (Pofig) English Deutsch Nederlands Francais
    Abh Small series Kleinere Gewächse Kleine serie Petite série

    Akacia Acacia Akazie Acacia Acacia

    ****************************************
    Buk Beech Buche Beuk Hêtre

    American beech: Mesic forests. A major component of northern hardwood forests where it is often in association with sugar maples. Beech occurs from sea level in coastal Long Island to high elevation forests in the mountains of northern New York. Not in Chenagno Cnty

    Long Beech fern: Cool mesic hardwood, hemlock, and mixed coniferous-hardwoods forests.


    ***********************************************
    Bereza B Birch Birke Berk Bouleau

    yellow birch : Cool mesic forests and swamps. A widespread tree in NY it is dominant or co-dominant in some types of northern hardwood forests as well as cool swamps.Not below Madison cnty

    Black Birch: A tree of young forests, rocky slopes, and talus slopes in mesic to dry soils. It is most common in warmer parts of NY and is an early successional species in mesic forests. Jefferson, Madison, Broome cnty's only

    River Birch : Riverbanks and low wet areas. Also commonly cultivated. With us primarily in southeastern NY. Onieda only

    Paper Birch: A tree of thin poor soils, talus and rocky slopes, and edges of forests and woodlands. In mesic forests it is an early successional species starting in forest clearings, after fire, or logging. Most common at higher elevations and in the northern parts of NY. It can co-occur with B. cordifolia but usually drops out at the highest elevations. Lewis and Jefferson Counties only ..and Catt country : )

    Grey Birch: Woodlands, pine barrens, edges of forests, bluffs, successional fields, thickets, disturbed ground, and road sides on thin often rocky poor soils. Responds well to disturbance including fire. NOT in Chenango Cnty

    bog birch
    Habitat: Rich fens and acidic bogs. It can grow in dense wet shrub thickets in the habitats mentioned but usually does not occur under a tree canopy. It is a rare plant and is restricted to these aforementioned unique habitats. Lewis Country Only






    Tree Baum Boom Arbre
    Dt Dead tree Toter Baum Dode boom Arbre mort

    *******************
    Dub Dbl Oak Eiche Eik Chêne

    White Oak: Dry to mesic forests. Tolerant of a wide variety of soil types it is lacking in the most xeric woodlands, in cool habitats, and in the richest deepest soils. Some forests were previously selectively logged for this species and perhaps as a result white oak is less frequent than it was formerly. Onieda, Chenango, Broome, Jefferson cnty's

    Swamp White Oak: Swamps, wet depressions, and thickets. Often in swamps on ridges and hill tops. Always in at least seasonally wet soils this species is often absent from deep alluvial soils where Quercus macrocarpa occurs. Onieda and Jefferson Cnty only

    Scarlet Oak: Dry to dry-mesic forests and woodlands. Predominately on very dry ridges, hilltops, crests, and upper slopes. Perhaps a fire dependent species it can often form dense monospecific stands, and sometimes in the driest situations, the trees appear dwarfed. Onieda and Broome Counties only

    Scrub Oak: Pine and other barrens, rocky summits, openings in woodlands, and utility rights-of way. Often on upper slopes, crests, and hilltops in dry acidic thin, sandy, or rocky soils. Oneida, Chenango, and Broome counties only

    Bur Oak: Bottomland forests and swamps in deep alluvium, and limestone and alvar woodlands and forests. Usually does not occur in hilltop swamps where Q. bicolor occurs. On limestone bedrock it sometimes occurs in very dry soils. Madison , Broome, and Jefferson counties only

    Chestnut Oak: Dry to dry-mesic acidic forests and woodlands. A good indicator of thin dry acidic soils it usually occurs on upper slopes, crests, ridges, and hill tops often with an understory of ericaceous shrubs including Kalmia latifolia, Vaccinium spp, and Gaylussacia baccata. Broome county only

    Yellow Oak: Broome County only

    Northern Red Oak: The most widespread oak species in New York. Dry to mesic forests in a variety of soil types. It occurs in the coolest climates of any species of oak in New York as well as in warmer more southern forest type. ALL counties

    Black Oak: Dry to mesic forests. Prefers two main habitats: dry ridges and upper slopes sometimes with Q. coccinea; and deep slightly acidic often sandy mesic soils on mid to lower slopes. Lewis, Madison, and Oneida counties
    Last edited by JimDep; June 22nd, 2021 at 06:28 PM.
    T:ANE Standard SP2 to SP3
    TRS 2012 build 61388

  15. #15
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    That is a large project. I am not sure that riding, driving or viewing from a train will allow an appreciation of the project. Also, as you create varieties and place them you might find that a view on a PC screen just does not look as good as a detailed photo. In other words, it is the mosaic of trees that is important. Also, be careful of the love of drone type views. I know I find myself watching an AI session from above. As I mentioned the bark is important, at least to me. Now you eventually come to Autumn. A new set of trees. Winter eventually makes that bark important and realistic branch design critical. The RED OAK being the widespread specie is everywhere but to get technical its actual presentation may be dependent on the local soil. Do you want to get that finite? And, do not paint branch stubs white to "seal" them. May be accurate but Trainz has no aging algorithm so that new white paint looks terrible. Variegation will test your skills. Variegation could be a trap. What looks good on a single leaf may fail on a full tree.

    50 years ago I spent 2 years in Oneida going to computer school. A trip through the forest up to Lake Placid was very pleasant and the forest itself was memorable.
    Last edited by boleyd; June 22nd, 2021 at 04:59 PM.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 111951

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