Spline point superelevation

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Is it possible to allow superelevation on splines (this embankment) to follow the track? In TANE you could could edit the spline point from the track properties window.

Edit: It seems being able to apply superelevation to splines was a bug in TANE? Anyway, I think I have been making curves wrong this whole times? I read the tutorial on superelevation and it mentioned applying it to the "summit" of the spline? Normally my curves don't have a spline point in them, they are made by two sections of straight track on either side. I have been applying superelevation to the splines at the beginning and end of the curve...is this wrong?

justinroth said:

Anyway, I think I have been making curves wrong this whole times? I read the tutorial on superelevation and it mentioned applying it to the "summit" of the spline? Normally my curves don't have a spline point in them, they are made by two sections of straight track on either side. I have been applying superelevation to the splines at the beginning and end of the curve...is this wrong?

Click to expand...

Greets.

Sorry, I just saw your post. I can't comment on your TS19 questions as I remain a TANE user, and am currently applying superelevation (SE) to a pretty curvy route. Here are a couple of observations that may help you:

First, I don't apply SE to the endpoints of straight sections. If I have a curve between two straightened sections without a vertex in it I add one at the midpoint ("summit") of the curved section and apply the SE to that vertex only, as you allude to. On long sweeping curves, I have found it necessary to add more vertexes, preferably keeping the linear distance between them down to about 100-120 meters (300-360 feet in archaic nonmetric units), BUT BE CERTAIN TO DIVIDE THE CURVE INTO EQUAL DISTANCES BETWEEN VERTEXES, OR THE SE GEOMETRY WILL NOT BE CONSISTENT.

Be aware that when adding multiple vertexes in a curve, doing so will often affect the track's horizontal and vertical alignments, so I use markers to plot where the unvertexed curve was beforehand, and return it to that geometry after adding in the new vertexes.

As to trackbed scenery or terrain, I have found that in curves where the SE is calculated by Trainz to be high, most types of track will required upward adjustments to the underlying terrain in order to cover the "floating" high side of the track mesh. This takes extra time and effort.

Applying SE to an existing route is tedious and repetitive, but I feel the result is worthwhile personally. And like anything else, you do get faster at it as you go. If you want a comparative example of the method I am attempting to explain here, download my DSEPR01 route now, then Version 2 in a few weeks when I release it and check how the trackage has changed in the longer curves along the open countryside at either end of the route.

Another timesaving tip I can offer is this: Take the time to set up a spreadsheet to do the maths to work out your P1 figure. My spreadsheet gives me the P1 for any speed between 1 and 350 km/h by simply scrolling down to that speed's line in the sheet and reading it. The P2 figure sets the maximum SE angle (in radians just to make it easy - thanks N3V), so will be the same across the entire route as you no doubt know already.

HTH
A71

There are also tracks that have a deep ballast that sticks down into the ground such as the terrain tracks by Jointed Rail.

<kuid2:45324:38016:1> JR MS Pink (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38008:5> JR Dk Grey (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38010:5> JR Dk Grey Dirty (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38017:3> JR MS Lt Grey dirty (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38009:5> JR Lt Grey (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38015:4> JR MS Conc1 (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38013:3> JR MS Conc (Terrain)
<kuid2:45324:38014:3> JR MS Lt Grey (Terrain)

This track is indistinguishable from the Jointed Rail regular track except for it being able to stick up above the surface on superelevated curves and fill in the gaps when the ground underneath has gaps.

There are other authors who have created track such as trainboi1, and socalwb909.

JCitron said:

There are also tracks that have a deep ballast that sticks down into the ground such as the terrain tracks by Jointed Rail.

Click to expand...

Yep, if only every track asset had this feature !

anathoth71 said:

Greets.

Sorry, I just saw your post. I can't comment on your TS19 questions as I remain a TANE user, and am currently applying superelevation (SE) to a pretty curvy route. Here are a couple of observations that may help you:

First, I don't apply SE to the endpoints of straight sections. If I have a curve between two straightened sections without a vertex in it I add one at the midpoint ("summit") of the curved section and apply the SE to that vertex only, as you allude to. On long sweeping curves, I have found it necessary to add more vertexes, preferably keeping the linear distance between them down to about 100-120 meters (300-360 feet in archaic nonmetric units), BUT BE CERTAIN TO DIVIDE THE CURVE INTO EQUAL DISTANCES BETWEEN VERTEXES, OR THE SE GEOMETRY WILL NOT BE CONSISTENT.

Be aware that when adding multiple vertexes in a curve, doing so will often affect the track's horizontal and vertical alignments, so I use markers to plot where the unvertexed curve was beforehand, and return it to that geometry after adding in the new vertexes.

As to trackbed scenery or terrain, I have found that in curves where the SE is calculated by Trainz to be high, most types of track will required upward adjustments to the underlying terrain in order to cover the "floating" high side of the track mesh. This takes extra time and effort.

Applying SE to an existing route is tedious and repetitive, but I feel the result is worthwhile personally. And like anything else, you do get faster at it as you go. If you want a comparative example of the method I am attempting to explain here, download my DSEPR01 route now, then Version 2 in a few weeks when I release it and check how the trackage has changed in the longer curves along the open countryside at either end of the route.

Another timesaving tip I can offer is this: Take the time to set up a spreadsheet to do the maths to work out your P1 figure. My spreadsheet gives me the P1 for any speed between 1 and 350 km/h by simply scrolling down to that speed's line in the sheet and reading it. The P2 figure sets the maximum SE angle (in radians just to make it easy - thanks N3V), so will be the same across the entire route as you no doubt know already.

HTH
A71

Click to expand...

Makes sense up until the end. I assume "P1" = s.e. Degree and "P2" = s.e. Limit? From a visual standpoint I can see that s.e. degree sets....the degree. I have no clue what s.e. limit does and what you mean by setting the maximum angle and it being the same across the route. Why would there need to be a limit when I set the degree?

justinroth said:

Makes sense up until the end. I assume "P1" = s.e. Degree and "P2" = s.e. Limit? From a visual standpoint I can see that s.e. degree sets....the degree. I have no clue what s.e. limit does and what you mean by setting the maximum angle and it being the same across the route. Why would there need to be a limit when I set the degree?

Click to expand...

Yes, sorry for that terminology, by P1 and P2 I mean "SE Degree" and "SE Limit" respectively as you rightly assumed. I should have used the words used in Trainz itself.

The second figure "SE Limit" sets the maximum track bank angle that is permissable. Most rail networks set maximum SE as the actual measured height that the outside rail is permitted to be above the inside rail. But because Trainz has to accommodate a wide variety of track gauges, it uses an angle as the limit instead. It is this maximum angle (in radians, not degrees) that you enter into the "SE Limit" field. Obviously, if Trainz calculates a smaller angle of SE to apply, it will use that angle, but it will not exceed the "SE Limit" that you set.

You MUST enter a positive "SE Limit" value, because if you leave the "SE Limit" at zero, you are telling Trainz that it cannot exceed zero superelevation so the tracks will remain horizontal.

----

Because really extreme accuracy in Trainz is not required, for standard gauge (1435mm) moderate speed networks, I find that an "SE Limit" of 0.1 works for pretty much all applications. This equates to an outside rail superelevation of around 150mm vertically (6 inches in stone-age units) which is quite a bit of superelevation, but not so much that it looks wrong. Most regular railway systems use a limit in this ballpark and I find that it works well in Trainz.

For a practical demonstration of how important the "SE Limit" figure is, enter the following very high values and have a laugh at the result:
Superelevation Degree: 280
Superelevation Limit: 3.0

Then lower only the Superelevation Limit to 0.1 and you will see how this works.

------

Also, if you are really keen and will use it, I should be able to post here a table from my spreadsheet that gives you all the "SE Degree" figures up to 350kmh. Maybe you have that part down to a fine art already though.....Let me know if you want it.


HTH
A71

anathoth71 said:

Yes, sorry for that terminology, by P1 and P2 I mean "SE Degree" and "SE Limit" respectively as you rightly assumed. I should have used the words used in Trainz itself.

The second figure "SE Limit" sets the maximum track bank angle that is permissable. Most rail networks set maximum SE as the actual measured height that the outside rail is permitted to be above the inside rail. But because Trainz has to accommodate a wide variety of track gauges, it uses an angle as the limit instead. It is this maximum angle (in radians, not degrees) that you enter into the "SE Limit" field. Obviously, if Trainz calculates a smaller angle of SE to apply, it will use that angle, but it will not exceed the "SE Limit" that you set.

You MUST enter a positive "SE Limit" value, because if you leave the "SE Limit" at zero, you are telling Trainz that it cannot exceed zero superelevation so the tracks will remain horizontal.

----

Because really extreme accuracy in Trainz is not required, for standard gauge (1435mm) moderate speed networks, I find that an "SE Limit" of 0.1 works for pretty much all applications. This equates to an outside rail superelevation of around 150mm vertically (6 inches in stone-age units) which is quite a bit of superelevation, but not so much that it looks wrong. Most regular railway systems use a limit in this ballpark and I find that it works well in Trainz.

For a practical demonstration of how important the "SE Limit" figure is, enter the following very high values and have a laugh at the result:
Superelevation Degree: 280
Superelevation Limit: 3.0

Then lower only the Superelevation Limit to 0.1 and you will see how this works.

------

Also, if you are really keen and will use it, I should be able to post here a table from my spreadsheet that gives you all the "SE Degree" figures up to 350kmh. Maybe you have that part down to a fine art already though.....Let me know if you want it.


HTH
A71

Click to expand...

I would love to see the spreadsheet. Currently I'm just setting both numbers to around 8 and it looks right, I double check with a short test-run but I'm sure I'm doing it incorrectly.

justinroth said:

I would love to see the spreadsheet. Currently I'm just setting both numbers to around 8 and it looks right, I double check with a short test-run but I'm sure I'm doing it incorrectly.

Click to expand...

Ok, I will try to make a post following this one with some Degree and Limit figures in a column format. You can use a set figure for the SE Limit across the whole route, but using a set figure in the SE Degree field will not work well because it is not an angle, it is a nonlinear ratio calculated from the speed of trains through that curve and the rail gauge. I'll keep the theory to a minimum and just supply the numbers so anyone who just wants to try superelevation can reference it too. Standby........

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit


1_________________0.6_________________0_________________0.1
2_________________1.2_________________0.02_________________0.1
3_________________1.9_________________0.04_________________0.1
4_________________2.5_________________0.08_________________0.1
5_________________3.1_________________0.12_________________0.1
6_________________3.7_________________0.17_________________0.1
7_________________4.3_________________0.23_________________0.1
8_________________5_________________0.31_________________0.1
9_________________5.6_________________0.39_________________0.1
10_________________6.2_________________0.48_________________0.1
11_________________6.8_________________0.58_________________0.1
12_________________7.5_________________0.69_________________0.1
13_________________8.1_________________0.81_________________0.1
14_________________8.7_________________0.94_________________0.1
15_________________9.3_________________1.08_________________0.1
16_________________9.9_________________1.22_________________0.1
17_________________10.6_________________1.38_________________0.1
18_________________11.2_________________1.55_________________0.1
19_________________11.8_________________1.73_________________0.1
20_________________12.4_________________1.91_________________0.1
21_________________13_________________2.11_________________0.1
22_________________13.7_________________2.31_________________0.1
23_________________14.3_________________2.53_________________0.1
24_________________14.9_________________2.75_________________0.1
25_________________15.5_________________2.99_________________0.1
26_________________16.1_________________3.23_________________0.1
27_________________16.8_________________3.49_________________0.1
28_________________17.4_________________3.75_________________0.1
29_________________18_________________4.02_________________0.1
30_________________18.6_________________4.3_________________0.1
31_________________19.3_________________4.59_________________0.1
32_________________19.9_________________4.9_________________0.1
33_________________20.5_________________5.21_________________0.1
34_________________21.1_________________5.53_________________0.1
35_________________21.7_________________5.86_________________0.1
36_________________22.4_________________6.2_________________0.1
37_________________23_________________6.55_________________0.1
38_________________23.6_________________6.9_________________0.1
39_________________24.2_________________7.27_________________0.1
40_________________24.8_________________7.65_________________0.1
41_________________25.5_________________8.04_________________0.1
42_________________26.1_________________8.43_________________0.1
43_________________26.7_________________8.84_________________0.1
44_________________27.3_________________9.26_________________0.1
45_________________28_________________9.68_________________0.1
46_________________28.6_________________10.12_________________0.1
47_________________29.2_________________10.56_________________0.1
48_________________29.8_________________11.02_________________0.1
49_________________30.4_________________11.48_________________0.1
50_________________31.1_________________11.95_________________0.1

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit

51_________________31.7_________________12.44_________________0.1
52_________________32.3_________________12.93_________________0.1
53_________________32.9_________________13.43_________________0.1
54_________________33.5_________________13.94_________________0.1
55_________________34.2_________________14.46_________________0.1
56_________________34.8_________________14.99_________________0.1
57_________________35.4_________________15.53_________________0.1
58_________________36_________________16.08_________________0.1
59_________________36.6_________________16.64_________________0.1
60_________________37.3_________________17.21_________________0.1
61_________________37.9_________________17.79_________________0.1
62_________________38.5_________________18.38_________________0.1
63_________________39.1_________________18.98_________________0.1
64_________________39.8_________________19.58_________________0.1
65_________________40.4_________________20.2_________________0.1
66_________________41_________________20.83_________________0.1
67_________________41.6_________________21.46_________________0.1
68_________________42.2_________________22.11_________________0.1
69_________________42.9_________________22.76_________________0.1
70_________________43.5_________________23.43_________________0.1
71_________________44.1_________________24.1_________________0.1
72_________________44.7_________________24.79_________________0.1
73_________________45.3_________________25.48_________________0.1
74_________________46_________________26.18_________________0.1
75_________________46.6_________________26.89_________________0.1
76_________________47.2_________________27.62_________________0.1
77_________________47.8_________________28.35_________________0.1
78_________________48.4_________________29.09_________________0.1
79_________________49.1_________________29.84_________________0.1
80_________________49.7_________________30.6_________________0.1
81_________________50.3_________________31.37_________________0.1
82_________________50.9_________________32.15_________________0.1
83_________________51.6_________________32.94_________________0.1
84_________________52.2_________________33.74_________________0.1
85_________________52.8_________________34.54_________________0.1
86_________________53.4_________________35.36_________________0.1
87_________________54_________________36.19_________________0.1
88_________________54.7_________________37.03_________________0.1
89_________________55.3_________________37.87_________________0.1
90_________________55.9_________________38.73_________________0.1
91_________________56.5_________________39.59_________________0.1
92_________________57.1_________________40.47_________________0.1
93_________________57.8_________________41.35_________________0.1
94_________________58.4_________________42.25_________________0.1
95_________________59_________________43.15_________________0.1
96_________________59.6_________________44.06_________________0.1
97_________________60.2_________________44.99_________________0.1
98_________________60.9_________________45.92_________________0.1
99_________________61.5_________________46.86_________________0.1
100_________________62.1_________________47.81_________________0.1

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit

101_________________62.7_________________48.77_________________0.1
102_________________63.4_________________49.74_________________0.1
103_________________64_________________50.72_________________0.1
104_________________64.6_________________51.71_________________0.1
105_________________65.2_________________52.71_________________0.1
106_________________65.8_________________53.72_________________0.1
107_________________66.5_________________54.74_________________0.1
108_________________67.1_________________55.77_________________0.1
109_________________67.7_________________56.8_________________0.1
110_________________68.3_________________57.85_________________0.1
111_________________68.9_________________58.91_________________0.1
112_________________69.6_________________59.97_________________0.1
113_________________70.2_________________61.05_________________0.1
114_________________70.8_________________62.14_________________0.1
115_________________71.4_________________63.23_________________0.1
116_________________72_________________64.34_________________0.1
117_________________72.7_________________65.45_________________0.1
118_________________73.3_________________66.57_________________0.1
119_________________73.9_________________67.71_________________0.1
120_________________74.5_________________68.85_________________0.1
121_________________75.2_________________70_________________0.1
122_________________75.8_________________71.16_________________0.1
123_________________76.4_________________72.33_________________0.1
124_________________77_________________73.51_________________0.1
125_________________77.6_________________74.71_________________0.1
126_________________78.3_________________75.91_________________0.1
127_________________78.9_________________77.12_________________0.1
128_________________79.5_________________78.33_________________0.1
129_________________80.1_________________79.56_________________0.1
130_________________80.7_________________80.8_________________0.1
131_________________81.4_________________82.05_________________0.1
132_________________82_________________83.31_________________0.1
133_________________82.6_________________84.57_________________0.1
134_________________83.2_________________85.85_________________0.1
135_________________83.9_________________87.14_________________0.1
136_________________84.5_________________88.43_________________0.1
137_________________85.1_________________89.74_________________0.1
138_________________85.7_________________91.05_________________0.1
139_________________86.3_________________92.38_________________0.1
140_________________87_________________93.71_________________0.1
141_________________87.6_________________95.05_________________0.1
142_________________88.2_________________96.41_________________0.1
143_________________88.8_________________97.77_________________0.1
144_________________89.4_________________99.14_________________0.1
145_________________90.1_________________100.52_________________0.1
146_________________90.7_________________101.91_________________0.1
147_________________91.3_________________103.32_________________0.1
148_________________91.9_________________104.73_________________0.1
149_________________92.5_________________106.15_________________0.1
150_________________93.2_________________107.58_________________0.1

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit

151_________________93.8_________________109.01_________________0.1
152_________________94.4_________________110.46_________________0.1
153_________________95_________________111.92_________________0.1
154_________________95.7_________________113.39_________________0.1
155_________________96.3_________________114.87_________________0.1
156_________________96.9_________________116.35_________________0.1
157_________________97.5_________________117.85_________________0.1
158_________________98.1_________________119.36_________________0.1
159_________________98.8_________________120.87_________________0.1
160_________________99.4_________________122.4_________________0.1
161_________________100_________________123.93_________________0.1
162_________________100.6_________________125.48_________________0.1
163_________________101.2_________________127.03_________________0.1
164_________________101.9_________________128.59_________________0.1
165_________________102.5_________________130.17_________________0.1
166_________________103.1_________________131.75_________________0.1
167_________________103.7_________________133.34_________________0.1
168_________________104.3_________________134.94_________________0.1
169_________________105_________________136.55_________________0.1
170_________________105.6_________________138.18_________________0.1
171_________________106.2_________________139.81_________________0.1
172_________________106.8_________________141.45_________________0.1
173_________________107.5_________________143.09_________________0.1
174_________________108.1_________________144.75_________________0.1
175_________________108.7_________________146.42_________________0.1
176_________________109.3_________________148.1_________________0.1
177_________________109.9_________________149.79_________________0.1
178_________________110.6_________________151.49_________________0.1
179_________________111.2_________________153.19_________________0.1
180_________________111.8_________________154.91_________________0.1
181_________________112.4_________________156.64_________________0.1
182_________________113_________________158.37_________________0.1
183_________________113.7_________________160.12_________________0.1
184_________________114.3_________________161.87_________________0.1
185_________________114.9_________________163.63_________________0.1
186_________________115.5_________________165.41_________________0.1
187_________________116.1_________________167.19_________________0.1
188_________________116.8_________________168.98_________________0.1
189_________________117.4_________________170.79_________________0.1
190_________________118_________________172.6_________________0.1
191_________________118.6_________________174.42_________________0.1
192_________________119.3_________________176.25_________________0.1
193_________________119.9_________________178.09_________________0.1
194_________________120.5_________________179.94_________________0.1
195_________________121.1_________________181.8_________________0.1
196_________________121.7_________________183.67_________________0.1
197_________________122.4_________________185.55_________________0.1
198_________________123_________________187.44_________________0.1
199_________________123.6_________________189.34_________________0.1
200_________________124.2_________________191.25_________________0.1

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit

201_________________124.8_________________193.16_________________0.1
202_________________125.5_________________195.09_________________0.1
203_________________126.1_________________197.03_________________0.1
204_________________126.7_________________198.97_________________0.1
205_________________127.3_________________200.93_________________0.1
206_________________128_________________202.89_________________0.1
207_________________128.6_________________204.87_________________0.1
208_________________129.2_________________206.85_________________0.1
209_________________129.8_________________208.85_________________0.1
210_________________130.4_________________210.85_________________0.1
211_________________131.1_________________212.86_________________0.1
212_________________131.7_________________214.88_________________0.1
213_________________132.3_________________216.92_________________0.1
214_________________132.9_________________218.96_________________0.1
215_________________133.5_________________221.01_________________0.1
216_________________134.2_________________223.07_________________0.1
217_________________134.8_________________225.14_________________0.1
218_________________135.4_________________227.22_________________0.1
219_________________136_________________229.31_________________0.1
220_________________136.6_________________231.41_________________0.1
221_________________137.3_________________233.52_________________0.1
222_________________137.9_________________235.63_________________0.1
223_________________138.5_________________237.76_________________0.1
224_________________139.1_________________239.9_________________0.1
225_________________139.8_________________242.05_________________0.1
226_________________140.4_________________244.2_________________0.1
227_________________141_________________246.37_________________0.1
228_________________141.6_________________248.54_________________0.1
229_________________142.2_________________250.73_________________0.1
230_________________142.9_________________252.92_________________0.1
231_________________143.5_________________255.13_________________0.1
232_________________144.1_________________257.34_________________0.1
233_________________144.7_________________259.56_________________0.1
234_________________145.3_________________261.8_________________0.1
235_________________146_________________264.04_________________0.1
236_________________146.6_________________266.29_________________0.1
237_________________147.2_________________268.55_________________0.1
238_________________147.8_________________270.82_________________0.1
239_________________148.4_________________273.1_________________0.1
240_________________149.1_________________275.39_________________0.1
241_________________149.7_________________277.69_________________0.1
242_________________150.3_________________280_________________0.1
243_________________150.9_________________282.32_________________0.1
244_________________151.6_________________284.65_________________0.1
245_________________152.2_________________286.99_________________0.1
246_________________152.8_________________289.34_________________0.1
247_________________153.4_________________291.69_________________0.1
248_________________154_________________294.06_________________0.1
249_________________154.7_________________296.44_________________0.1
250_________________155.3_________________298.82_________________0.1

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit

251_________________155.9_________________301.22_________________0.1
252_________________156.5_________________303.62_________________0.1
253_________________157.1_________________306.04_________________0.1
254_________________157.8_________________308.46_________________0.1
255_________________158.4_________________310.89_________________0.1
256_________________159_________________313.34_________________0.1
257_________________159.6_________________315.79_________________0.1
258_________________160.2_________________318.25_________________0.1
259_________________160.9_________________320.72_________________0.1
260_________________161.5_________________323.21_________________0.1
261_________________162.1_________________325.7_________________0.1
262_________________162.7_________________328.2_________________0.1
263_________________163.4_________________330.71_________________0.1
264_________________164_________________333.23_________________0.1
265_________________164.6_________________335.76_________________0.1
266_________________165.2_________________338.29_________________0.1
267_________________165.8_________________340.84_________________0.1
268_________________166.5_________________343.4_________________0.1
269_________________167.1_________________345.97_________________0.1
270_________________167.7_________________348.55_________________0.1
271_________________168.3_________________351.13_________________0.1
272_________________168.9_________________353.73_________________0.1
273_________________169.6_________________356.33_________________0.1
274_________________170.2_________________358.95_________________0.1
275_________________170.8_________________361.57_________________0.1
276_________________171.4_________________364.21_________________0.1
277_________________172_________________366.85_________________0.1
278_________________172.7_________________369.51_________________0.1
279_________________173.3_________________372.17_________________0.1
280_________________173.9_________________374.84_________________0.1
281_________________174.5_________________377.52_________________0.1
282_________________175.2_________________380.22_________________0.1
283_________________175.8_________________382.92_________________0.1
284_________________176.4_________________385.63_________________0.1
285_________________177_________________388.35_________________0.1
286_________________177.6_________________391.08_________________0.1
287_________________178.3_________________393.82_________________0.1
288_________________178.9_________________396.57_________________0.1
289_________________179.5_________________399.33_________________0.1
290_________________180.1_________________402.09_________________0.1
291_________________180.7_________________404.87_________________0.1
292_________________181.4_________________407.66_________________0.1
293_________________182_________________410.46_________________0.1
294_________________182.6_________________413.26_________________0.1
295_________________183.2_________________416.08_________________0.1
296_________________183.9_________________418.9_________________0.1
297_________________184.5_________________421.74_________________0.1
298_________________185.1_________________424.58_________________0.1
299_________________185.7_________________427.44_________________0.1
300_________________186.3_________________430.3_________________0.1

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units (MPH)___________Superelevation Degree_______________Superelevation Limit

301_________________187_________________433.18_________________0.1
302_________________187.6_________________436.06_________________0.1
303_________________188.2_________________438.95_________________0.1
304_________________188.8_________________441.85_________________0.1
305_________________189.4_________________444.77_________________0.1
306_________________190.1_________________447.69_________________0.1
307_________________190.7_________________450.62_________________0.1
308_________________191.3_________________453.56_________________0.1
309_________________191.9_________________456.51_________________0.1
310_________________192.5_________________459.47_________________0.1
311_________________193.2_________________462.44_________________0.1
312_________________193.8_________________465.42_________________0.1
313_________________194.4_________________468.4_________________0.1
314_________________195_________________471.4_________________0.1
315_________________195.7_________________474.41_________________0.1
316_________________196.3_________________477.43_________________0.1
317_________________196.9_________________480.45_________________0.1
318_________________197.5_________________483.49_________________0.1
319_________________198.1_________________486.53_________________0.1
320_________________198.8_________________489.59_________________0.1
321_________________199.4_________________492.65_________________0.1
322_________________200_________________495.73_________________0.1
323_________________200.6_________________498.81_________________0.1
324_________________201.2_________________501.91_________________0.1
325_________________201.9_________________505.01_________________0.1
326_________________202.5_________________508.12_________________0.1
327_________________203.1_________________511.24_________________0.1
328_________________203.7_________________514.37_________________0.1
329_________________204.3_________________517.52_________________0.1
330_________________205_________________520.67_________________0.1
331_________________205.6_________________523.83_________________0.1
332_________________206.2_________________527_________________0.1
333_________________206.8_________________530.18_________________0.1
334_________________207.5_________________533.37_________________0.1
335_________________208.1_________________536.56_________________0.1
336_________________208.7_________________539.77_________________0.1
337_________________209.3_________________542.99_________________0.1
338_________________209.9_________________546.22_________________0.1
339_________________210.6_________________549.45_________________0.1
340_________________211.2_________________552.7_________________0.1
341_________________211.8_________________555.96_________________0.1
342_________________212.4_________________559.22_________________0.1
343_________________213_________________562.5_________________0.1
344_________________213.7_________________565.78_________________0.1
345_________________214.3_________________569.08_________________0.1
346_________________214.9_________________572.38_________________0.1
347_________________215.5_________________575.69_________________0.1
348_________________216.1_________________579.02_________________0.1
349_________________216.8_________________582.35_________________0.1
350_________________217.4_________________585.69_________________0.1

justinroth said:

...Anyway, I think I have been making curves wrong this whole times? I read the tutorial on superelevation and it mentioned applying it to the "summit" of the spline? Normally my curves don't have a spline point in them, they are made by two sections of straight track on either side. I have been applying superelevation to the splines at the beginning and end of the curve...is this wrong?

Click to expand...

Not necessarily. While you input P1 & P2 values at a spline point Trainz does some interpolating of your input and results between adjacent spline points. Assuming you input the same P1 & P2 values at all 4 spline points (before and after the curve) you'll see a transition from 0 twist at the end vertices to a value determined by the P1 and P2 params throughout curved section. The straight tracks have 0 curvature and should have 0 twist calculated but there is some kind of interpolation of results going on.

Is that what you expect to see? It's not too far from what you might see with the run in and out of the superelevation occurring before the curve starts. But you don't have as much control over what's happening like if you had additional points. The run in and out aren't that long so points added to define their length might be something to consider. It's possible to calculate what the length of the run in and out should (they are a function of train speed too) but typically railroads incorporate them in the length of the easments or transition curves that lead in and out of the circular part of the curve. In my experience Trainz doesn't model easments too well.

Bob Pearson

anathoth71 said:

Here are the superelevation (SE) figures I use. They have achieved good results on any trackage I have used them on. These were calculated for a standard gauge railway with a maximum outside rail elevation of about 150mm which is fairly typical for well engineered standard gauge railways. To use the chart, you have to have in mind a trainspeed that you are superelevating for. Using the line speed limit that applies to your curve is fine. Then simply scroll down to the line that matches that speed and read the figures you need to enter into the SE dialogue box in Trainz. Trainz will then apply the required superelevation to your curve.

The chart format is as follows:

SPEED in sensible, logical metric units (KM/H)_________SPEED in moon landing units

Click to expand...

:hehe:Thanks for the moon landing units!

RPearson said:

Not necessarily. While you input P1 & P2 values at a spline point Trainz does some interpolating of your input and results between adjacent spline points. Assuming you input the same P1 & P2 values at all 4 spline points (before and after the curve) you'll see a transition from 0 twist at the end vertices to a value determined by the P1 and P2 params throughout curved section. The straight tracks have 0 curvature and should have 0 twist calculated but there is some kind of interpolation of results going on.

Is that what you expect to see? It's not too far from what you might see with the run in and out of the superelevation occurring before the curve starts. But you don't have as much control over what's happening like if you had additional points. The run in and out aren't that long so points added to define their length might be something to consider. It's possible to calculate what the length of the run in and out should (they are a function of train speed too) but typically railroads incorporate them in the length of the easments or transition curves that lead in and out of the circular part of the curve. In my experience Trainz doesn't model easments too well.

Bob Pearson

Click to expand...

It seems that the s.e. parameters should be zero for the splines at the end and beginning of curves? I initially thought that the straight track leading to the curve twisted to lead into the s.e. but read that I need to place a spline point(s) at the summit of the curve and only apply s.e. there?

justinroth said:

Thanks for the moon landing units!

Click to expand...

Hehe, glad to help. I work on Boeing planes for a living, so unfortunately I have to know both systems well. Fine measurements are usually done in thousandths of an inch, paradoxically. So even the imperial system reverts to a form of metric system at the microscale !

Rob will answer you as he wishes about lead-in superelevation, which is indeed what real railways do. For me, I don't try to emulate this effect in Trainz because it seems like unnecessary complication to an already laborious task. And I'm not sure how it would work coming off trackage that has had the "straightener" tool applied to it, which is how we usually build good curves in Trainz of course. If Trainz throws in a very slight lead-in effect as Rob is indicating, then all power to it.

I hope your project goes well !
A71