TUME's EP2 and EP3 models.

DARTrider

Goofy Fictional RR Owner
Hello all.
I've recently been on an electric locomotive kick, and the first railroad that came up was the Milwaukee Road! I immediately began my search for EF1, EP2, EP3, EF4, ES1, ES2 and subsequent models. I found ES2 switchers and a pretty good EP2 (I had already obtained EF1 and EF4 models), but no EP3! I saw TUME's video and they looked awesome, so wanted to know if these were private, or if they weren't what could I do to obtain them? I plan to run these on Avery-Drexel once I open my boxed copy of T:ANE Deluxe.

Thank you for the help!
 
As far as I know, regarding the "box" models, TUME only made the EF1 and EF4. If he has any others I have never come across them, nor have I come across any EPs. Someone makes an EP2 Bipolar, I believe, and I think Tume's Little Joe" is an EF4 designation.
 
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Hello all.
I've recently been on an electric locomotive kick, and the first railroad that came up was the Milwaukee Road! I immediately began my search for EF1, EP2, EP3, EF4, ES1, ES2 and subsequent models. I found ES2 switchers and a pretty good EP2 (I had already obtained EF1 and EF4 models), but no EP3! I saw TUME's video and they looked awesome, so wanted to know if these were private, or if they weren't what could I do to obtain them? I plan to run these on Avery-Drexel once I open my boxed copy of T:ANE Deluxe.

Thank you for the help!

Your post moved me to review The Milwaukee Electrics (Holley, Noel T., Hundman, Mukilteo 2002).

TUME has provided everything needed to create any of the box cab "classes."

The EP's only ran a few years (no more than 4) before conversion to EFs. Holley notes they were nearly indistinguishable from the EFs visually although they were heavier (due to train heat equipment? My guess.) The Milwaukee never had an EP2 or EP3. They were supplanted by the bipolars.

The EF-1 consisted of a two-unit, A-C configuration, connected by a drawbar. Both were cab units and could operate separately. The drawbar was in a universal socket and could be replaced with a Janney coupler.

The EF-2 was a three-unit consist, A-C-A. "C" was an A with controls removed but cab retained.

The EF-3 was three units, A-B-C. The B unit was cabless and shopped from an A or C, with added weight for more traction.

The EF-4 is, of course, the "Little Joe."

The EF-5 was a 1940's expedient A-B-B-C consist.

What we really want is a Westinghouse "quill". They were scrapped in the '40s, however, so fall a bit outside TUME's time line. They were less successful than the GE box cabs.

So there we are. Carry on!

:B~)
 
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The Milwaukee never had an EP2 or EP3. They were supplanted by the bipolars.

This is incorrect, the EF/EP class system was not specific to Boxcab/GE Motors (as the EF-4/Joe proves). The EP-2 was the Bipolar and the EP-3 was the Quill drive.

The Milwaukee went back to GE to order 15 new passenger electrics, however due to WWI, the government forced them to split the order between GE and Westinghouse. GE created the EP-2 Bipolar and Westinghouse created the EP-3. A few notes for anyone interested-

The EP-2s were fantastic motors to begin with, and until WWII, they were kept up well and generally liked by crews. Poor visibility and the manual boiler were not crew favourites, but they could take practically any curve and they rolled smoothly - so smoothly that a Mallet in yard service bumped one on the turntable in Othello and sent the poor Bipolar straight out the back of the roundhouse, obliterated a couple walls with that! Unfortunately, WWII resulted in decreased maintenance and all 5 of the EP-2s suffered heavily as a result. They were rebuilt in the early 1950s, but thanks to management forcing four out of the five Bipolars to be rebuilt at the Milwaukee, WI shops instead of the Tacoma, WA shops, they were permanently ruined as the Milwaukee shops had no idea how electrics worked. After a short few years of poor performance - and a momentary consideration of pushing them to freight service - they were retired and scrapped, save for E2. Semi-streamlined and given UP paint, their last years were decidedly quite sad.

EP-3s were mechanical failures on the Milwaukee because Westinghouse, along with Baldwin, had essentially built a New Haven electric (coincidentally, called an EP-2 on the NH), but increased the weight of the locomotive dramatically despite not making any significant changes to the running gear. The EP-3 Quills would grind their own frames to death and break apart, even going so far as to shoot out pieces of the quill itself that cut catenary poles apart. Additionally, the New Haven was mostly flat and straight, while the Milwaukee was heavily graded and had extremely tight curves - flange wear and the fact that the MILW EP-3s were 78% heavier than the NH EP-2s resulted in disaster. One EP3, 10301, was split down the middle and turned into an AB motor, similar to the EF/EP1s, but the experiment was deemed a failure and it was reconverted back to a single motor. The speed recorders in both cabs failed constantly, and the Milwaukee abandoned maintenance on the number one cab shortly after introduction, and only ran them with the number two cab forward.

Despite the fact they were a failure, the EP-3s ran smooth in the cab and had decent power, but they were terrible engines for the railroad. One received a unique grey paintscheme with black stripes and a red roof. One was wrecked and stored until WWII when it was finally scrapped for the metal. All nine remaining EP-3s ended up with roadnumber specific details that make modeling them decidedly difficult.

Additionally, there were passenger Boxcabs after the fact - called EP-1As, these were regeared from the Boxcabs in later years, however these were a complete mechanical failure and were converted back to freight service after a few short years. E22 and E23 were semi-streamlined Boxcabs that were later merged into a single EF-5 class and E23's C motor - the only one with a C motor - was given to E39 and relabeled E39D. Of note is the fact that during their tenure as passenger motors, they were given the UP-style paintscheme that the Milwaukee adopted after taking over the UP's City Of trains.

1955%20E22%20Tacoma,%20WA.jpg


To answer OPs question, Tume has created the EP-2s and EP-3s in Trainz, but I don't believe these will become available any time soon - its been well over a decade, after all. An EP-2 was put out by Pweiser, along with the ES-2, in the link earlier in the thread. Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever created the ES-1 (limited to the 1500V DC Great Falls line), nor the EP-1As. Someday we could use a fresh set of new Milwaukee electrics, built up to modern model/texturing standards.

Cheers,
SM
 
Amazed!

You should check out this website:

https://jatwsorg.mywhc.ca/PWeiser/#NHelectric

Some great electric engines.

My God...that's an absolute GOLDMINE for US electric lovers, they are a very under represented on both Trainz and TSxx..thanks for the link
***UPDATE*** I've just tried a load of them, and they all work on TRS19...they look great too. Pwieser has made virtually all the US electrics box and streamlined that I have been longing to get, he deserves a medal for making them and giving them for FREE too
...and I'm in HEAVEN!
 
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This is incorrect, the EF/EP class system was not specific to Boxcab/GE Motors (as the EF-4/Joe proves). The EP-2 was the Bipolar and the EP-3 was the Quill drive.

The Milwaukee went back to GE to order 15 new passenger electrics, however due to WWI, the government forced them to split the order between GE and Westinghouse. GE created the EP-2 Bipolar and Westinghouse created the EP-3. A few notes for anyone interested-

The EP-2s were fantastic motors to begin with, and until WWII, they were kept up well and generally liked by crews. Poor visibility and the manual boiler were not crew favourites, but they could take practically any curve and they rolled smoothly - so smoothly that a Mallet in yard service bumped one on the turntable in Othello and sent the poor Bipolar straight out the back of the roundhouse, obliterated a couple walls with that! Unfortunately, WWII resulted in decreased maintenance and all 5 of the EP-2s suffered heavily as a result. They were rebuilt in the early 1950s, but thanks to management forcing four out of the five Bipolars to be rebuilt at the Milwaukee, WI shops instead of the Tacoma, WA shops, they were permanently ruined as the Milwaukee shops had no idea how electrics worked. After a short few years of poor performance - and a momentary consideration of pushing them to freight service - they were retired and scrapped, save for E2. Semi-streamlined and given UP paint, their last years were decidedly quite sad.

EP-3s were mechanical failures on the Milwaukee because Westinghouse, along with Baldwin, had essentially built a New Haven electric (coincidentally, called an EP-2 on the NH), but increased the weight of the locomotive dramatically despite not making any significant changes to the running gear. The EP-3 Quills would grind their own frames to death and break apart, even going so far as to shoot out pieces of the quill itself that cut catenary poles apart. Additionally, the New Haven was mostly flat and straight, while the Milwaukee was heavily graded and had extremely tight curves - flange wear and the fact that the MILW EP-3s were 78% heavier than the NH EP-2s resulted in disaster. One EP3, 10301, was split down the middle and turned into an AB motor, similar to the EF/EP1s, but the experiment was deemed a failure and it was reconverted back to a single motor. The speed recorders in both cabs failed constantly, and the Milwaukee abandoned maintenance on the number one cab shortly after introduction, and only ran them with the number two cab forward.

Despite the fact they were a failure, the EP-3s ran smooth in the cab and had decent power, but they were terrible engines for the railroad. One received a unique grey paintscheme with black stripes and a red roof. One was wrecked and stored until WWII when it was finally scrapped for the metal. All nine remaining EP-3s ended up with roadnumber specific details that make modeling them decidedly difficult.

Additionally, there were passenger Boxcabs after the fact - called EP-1As, these were regeared from the Boxcabs in later years, however these were a complete mechanical failure and were converted back to freight service after a few short years. E22 and E23 were semi-streamlined Boxcabs that were later merged into a single EF-5 class and E23's C motor - the only one with a C motor - was given to E39 and relabeled E39D. Of note is the fact that during their tenure as passenger motors, they were given the UP-style paintscheme that the Milwaukee adopted after taking over the UP's City Of trains.

1955%20E22%20Tacoma,%20WA.jpg


To answer OPs question, Tume has created the EP-2s and EP-3s in Trainz, but I don't believe these will become available any time soon - its been well over a decade, after all. An EP-2 was put out by Pweiser, along with the ES-2, in the link earlier in the thread. Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever created the ES-1 (limited to the 1500V DC Great Falls line), nor the EP-1As. Someday we could use a fresh set of new Milwaukee electrics, built up to modern model/texturing standards.

Cheers,
SM



Thank you ! I really enjoyed reading this historical detail.
 
This is incorrect, the EF/EP class system was not specific to Boxcab/GE Motors (as the EF-4/Joe proves). The EP-2 was the Bipolar and the EP-3 was the Quill drive....
Cheers,
SM

Thanks for the clarification and additional information. Of course you're right about the EP-2 and -3 classes.

It should be noted that when first placed in service the bipolars were assigned to "silk train" express freight service as well as passenger service.

The original EP-1s were geared at 2.4 or 2.8 to 1. On conversion to EF the were re-geared at 4.5/1. Do you know if the later EP-1a's were created from the original EP units? Was that work done at Tacoma?

:B~)
 
Wow, thanks for all the information, I was gone a while and it looks as if this thread blew up a little. I have visited PWeiser's site and got the EP-2, but I remember seeing an EP-3 in TUME's video "Milwaukee Road in the Bitteroots - Sim Preview - Vol. 2" (https://youtu.be/3V09XezaTDY?t=32). Thanks for everything!
[h=1][/h][h=1][/h]
 
That's interesting DARTrider, I had not seen that one before, and he does refer to the Quill drives. That video was 2007, and whether he ever released that quill drive is something maybe only Tume knows. He also has a great video set of the Columbia Basin from Othello to Kittitas, Washington, but he never released that route either, and it is the one segment I have always wanted most.
 
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