Thrown across the yard while shunting.

I suppose for now if it does happen one should or could try and click on your current driver again asap and possibly save a mishap ?

No matter what I try in my Cheap TRS19 euroversion 111951 I cannot get this error/feature to appear.
Is it limited to Platinum, Plus ?


When developing Set-Driver-Condition-Rule, I always keep 2 version, 1 ready to release, 1 where I experiment
even then its hard not to make mistakes between versions.
Imagine having (just guessing) 8 versions of a very complex software code, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

G.M. said:

No matter what I try in my Cheap TRS19 euroversion 111951 I cannot get this error/feature to appear.
Is it limited to Platinum, Plus ?


When developing Set-Driver-Condition-Rule, I always keep 2 version, 1 ready to release, 1 where I experiment
even then its hard not to make mistakes between versions.
Imagine having (just guessing) 8 versions of a very complex software code, it's a disaster waiting to happen.

Click to expand...

In "advertently" double-click on a junction and see if that does it. If the mouse skips or we have a twitch, that may initiate putting us into orbit.

What am I not understanding?
In post #9 above John says: While in driver, click on a junction to select it rather than just selecting the red-green arrows.

I don't understand that. While in driver all I can do is click the red-green arrows. I cannot click on a junction to "select it." If i click on a junction I'm either on one of the red-green arrows or I'm on "nothing" and nothing happens. How do you "select a junction" and why would you want to in Driver?

I can seem to replicate this action either. I have never been "thrown" anywhere.

So again.. How do you "select" a junction rather than just click one of the arrows?

If I knew how to avoid this from happening I'd be a happy woman Greg. It seems to happen out of the blue as it were when I'm working around a goods yard shunting wagons. Today all was fine during my operating session, but that's no guarantee that I won't win the free flight prize tomorrow.

Annie

It was John's answer that confounded me. His reply made it sound like you can choose to "select" a swtich instead of clicking the red or green arrow. Did I mis-read his post? And you mention that Zec said it was a "feature." I dont' see it here, or at least, I don't know how to invoke it nor have I ever seen it accidentally invoked.

John seems to indicate that it can be easily reproduced.

1611mac said:

It was John's answer that confounded me. His reply made it sound like you can choose to "select" a swtich instead of clicking the red or green arrow. Did I mis-read his post? And you mention that Zec said it was a "feature." I dont' see it here, or at least, I don't know how to invoke it nor have I ever seen it accidentally invoked.

John seems to indicate that it can be easily reproduced.

Click to expand...

Perhaps that refers to clicking on the junction in Map mode. I have not had any issues doing that, nor with using "J/Ctrl+J", but do occasionally when clicking the turnout arrows.

:B~)

See JCitron's relevant post - in the wrong thread - here:
https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...-Question-and-Discovery&p=1874456#post1874456

I can confirm that it is the act of querying a blocking SIGNAL on your path ahead that triggers the leap to highlight the junction in question... (Possible that some of those yard signals are invisible in Driver mode too, just to complicate this issue).
This has been the behaviour of signals ever since T:ANE in my experience.

Yes, I've known about clicking on signals causing this action. i simply make sure I don't click on them to invoke this behaviour. So how did we get signals and junctions/switches mixed up? Kotanga Girl, does this correlate with what you see? Did you intend to say signal instead of junction? Or perhaps there just happens to be a signal close to the junction and the junction click is being intercepted by the signal feature?

Edit (added) - If this happens hitting "1" (cab) or "3" (lineside) puts me right back in control of my loco/power.

Also, I believe this only happens when a junction opposes you and is causing signal to curtail your movement. Clicking the signal will zoom you to the "problem" junction where you can set it and then hit 1 or 3 to return and be in control. If the signal is a "clear" (green) and you click it nothing happens. If "red" and you click it you "transport" to the problem junction.

No I did mean junction and not signal Greg. Each time it has happened though I was working in the goods yards of one of the major stations on my Norfolk layout. These yards while large are fairly constrained for space and there is a lot of trackside hardware that needs to be worked around. Each time I took flight I was aiming to click over a red/green junction arrow and to the best of my knowledge I didn't accidentally click on a ground signal instead. The most mysterious one was when I was manually uncoupling a parcel van and I suddenly took flight.

It might be because I'm being more careful now and I'm making doubly sure I am switching over a junction, but the sudden free flights didn't bother me at all either today or yesterday.

Here... I cut and pasted my text from the wrong thread I had posted. Thanks to my attempt to multitask at very late hours. Anyway...

I found the culprit!

It's not even the actual switch lever that causes this. It's clicking on a signal in the path of the train.

What's confusing is clicking on the signal plops us on the junction and the junction flashes green which left us all thinking it was clicking on the junction that caused this and not the signal.

What's more confusing is we lose control of our active, meaning our selected consist, and we're now "controlling" the junction. Pressing 4 releases us from the junction.

Still think this is dumb, or at least how it's implemented.

1) Losing our consist for one is a no-no here. We need to have control of our train at all times.

2) The indistinct action, meaning we don't know bl--dy 'ell what we clicked on to cause our action. Clicking us on a signal puts in control of a junction?

3) What's the purpose of this? Without documentation, this is a useless "feature".

I'm not sorry to say, but this is a feature we can do without and the resources can be better used elsewhere.

John, see my post 2 replies up. As best I can tell the "clicking on signal" only transports you when the signal you are facing is red. The purpose is this: You come upon a red single and you are not sure why... or, you know why and you just want to change the next junction. Click on the signal and you transport to the junction. Set it's direction and then hit "1" or "3" and you are back in your loco (or line side) as before the transport. Thus, when a red signal is encounted you can swtich the offending junction and be back driving in just a second to two. No need to locate the "bad" junction. No need to fly down the track, or zoom out, to set a junction. Again, it seems that clicking on a "clear" signal (green) you are not transported as there is no opposing junction.

No one has to use this feature. Just don't click on the signal.

This is documented somewhere as I remember reading about this "feature." However, the documentation seems to be of little value because I can't find it anywhere in the wiki. If you can't find it, it may as well not exist.

And also just above, KotangaGirl restates that she is referring to the turnout/switch arrows, not a signal.

1611mac said:

John, see my post 2 replies up. As best I can tell the "clicking on signal" only transports you when the signal you are facing is red. The purpose is this: You come upon a red single and you are not sure why... or, you know why and you just want to change the next junction. Click on the signal and you transport to the junction. Set it's direction and then hit "1" or "3" and you are back in your loco (or line side) as before the transport. Thus, when a red signal is encounted you can swtich the offending junction and be back driving in just a second to two. No need to locate the "bad" junction. No need to fly down the track, or zoom out, to set a junction. Again, it seems that clicking on a "clear" signal (green) you are not transported as there is no opposing junction.

No one has to use this feature. Just don't click on the signal.

This is documented somewhere as I remember reading about this "feature." However, the documentation seems to be of little value because I can't find it anywhere in the wiki. If you can't find it, it may as well not exist.

And also just above, KotangaGirl restates that she is referring to the turnout/switch arrows, not a signal.

Click to expand...

Yes, we've both said pretty much the same thing. I broke the momentum of the thread by posting in the wrong place. Annie is right, though, because it does land you on the junction and that makes one think it's the junction and not a signal. This is more apt to occur in a yard area where there are lots and lots of signals and junctions because things are in close proximity. That is correct, it only occurs with red signals and not green ones. During my testing and discovery last night, I neglected to note this in my notes as I tested, and also neglected to mention that double-clicking on the junction does nothing more than switch the lever left or right.

The fly-off to nowhere is caused because we've clicked on the signal on the way to a junction to fix that junction, and the problem is Annie, nor anyone else for that matter, knew exactly what happened to cause this. This is like getting zapped when touching an inane object and not knowing the cause. What did we do to cause that and we end up attributing the wrong thing to the cause of the issue.

Seeing a red signal and not sure why, is usually a rare thing. There are two common causes. There's either an oncoming train, or the junction is set against the driver. Flying up in the air to check is fine because it gives the map view where we can see either situation, besides, the red signal ahead is usually just ahead anyway unless the absolute signal and junction are many miles/kms ahead of the current consist. On my routes, I use intermediate permissive signals in between on long stretches of track to allow for smoother operation. This is also helpful for running lots of trains in succession on the same line since the line is then divided up into smaller sections within the larger blocks.

In other cases where a signal maybe red but we don't know why is caused by some other issue such as a broken track, junction, or disconnect.

What's wrong with this is it takes control from the train completely instead of showing us the junction setting, after clicking on the red signal. By control away, we can't just go back and choose our driver easily and are left stuck until we either click on the driver list, and who thinks of that when confused and in a panic, or pressing 4 to become a free-roamer again.

I couldn't find any documentation either on this anywhere. The documentation you may have seen somewhere is a query on this in the forums, and good luck searching for that here. Blah!

JCitron said:

What's wrong with this is it takes control from the train completely instead of showing us the junction setting, after clicking on the red signal. By control away, we can't just go back and choose our driver easily and are left stuck until we either click on the driver list, and who thinks of that when confused and in a panic, or pressing 4 to become a free-roamer again.

Click to expand...

Odd.. in my case here after I zoom to the junction and set it I only need hit "1" (in cab) or "3" (lineside) and I'm instantly back in my loco running fine. "Getting back" is instant and easy. That doesn't happen for you?

1611mac said:

Odd.. in my case here after I zoom to the junction and set it I only need hit "1" (in cab) or "3" (lineside) and I'm instantly back in my loco running fine. "Getting back" is instant and easy. That doesn't happen for you?

Click to expand...

No because my driver is gone, or perhaps I didn't try that because I was thoroughly thrown off guard. I get the junction as my train now and not the driver I was riding with or the consist I was driving. It's a bit disconcerting and disorientating.

It's only disconcerting and disorienting if you don't know what is happening. Yes, when it first happens you say "What in the world?" - But once you understand it it's nothing. Click signal, you are now at opposing turnout, click turnout arrow, hit "1" and you are back in cab driving. No sweat. Try it again and see if you aren't returned and driving your train by hitting "1" - I will say, I think the driver icon in the HUD does go to "no driver" but I certainly am back driving again regardless if my driver pic is showing or not.

1611mac said:

It's only disconcerting and disorienting if you don't know what is happening. Yes, when it first happens you say "What in the world?" - But once you understand it it's nothing. Click signal, you are now at opposing turnout, click turnout arrow, hit "1" and you are back in cab driving. No sweat. Try it again and see if you aren't returned and driving your train by hitting "1" - I will say, I think the driver icon in the HUD does go to "no driver" but I certainly am back driving again regardless if my driver pic is showing or not.

Click to expand...

Yeah, now that I know what zapped me it isn't as disconcerting anymore. With that said, I'll give it a try. Thanks.

Please know that I'm not advocating it's use or anything. Just explaining that it does seem to work sensibly when understood, if someone wants to use it.

But yes, it is totally counter-intuitive when it transports you right out of your train that way. I tend to run more realistically so I usually either have path set already or I will actually stop and pause and wait for my conductor to go throw the switch. (me) - And you are right, it's not hard to see what is causing the signal to be red. I don't need to be teleported to any offending turnout.

But back to the initial issue: It will be interesting to see if KotangaGirl does in fact verfiy that it's happening on turnouts, not signals.

Something I did wonder about is whether buffer stops are causing sudden flights across the yard as well since buffer stops are designated as being a signal.
I have problems with micro pauses and disjointed thinking due to narcolepsy so by the time I've recovered my wits after being thrown down the yard it's all over and my shunting engine and/or its cut of wagons have derailed and my happy time shunting the yard has been ruined.

Next time it happens I'll try to remember to press either '1' or '3' and see if I'm back in control again or not, but I'm not exactly looking forward to the experiment.

Annie

1611mac said:

Please know that I'm not advocating it's use or anything. Just explaining that it does seem to work sensibly when understood, if someone wants to use it.

But yes, it is totally counter-intuitive when it transports you right out of your train that way. I tend to run more realistically so I usually either have path set already or I will actually stop and pause and wait for my conductor to go throw the switch. (me) - And you are right, it's not hard to see what is causing the signal to be red. I don't need to be teleported to any offending turnout.

But back to the initial issue: It will be interesting to see if KotangaGirl does in fact verfiy that it's happening on turnouts, not signals.

Click to expand...

Oh, I get that and I run as realistically as possible as well, but I do on occasionally call in the big hook, as in model railroading terms, to fix things, and also do the same stop and flip the lever the same way.

KotangaGirl said:

Something I did wonder about is whether buffer stops are causing sudden flights across the yard as well since buffer stops are designated as being a signal.
I have problems with micro pauses and disjointed thinking due to narcolepsy so by the time I've recovered my wits after being thrown down the yard it's all over and my shunting engine and/or its cut of wagons have derailed and my happy time shunting the yard has been ruined.

Next time it happens I'll try to remember to press either '1' or '3' and see if I'm back in control again or not, but I'm not exactly looking forward to the experiment.

Annie

Click to expand...

I'm not keen on trying it either unless it happens as well. Do you want to go first?