Auran 'unknown' assets

Hi G.M.

G.M. said:

583240 assets on the DLS, half of the assets is there double

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Trainz's asset system uses the 'KUID2' system to obsolete/update assets.

So the initial release of an asset is kuid:12345:9876.

If you make any changes after release, and wish to release these updates/changes in any way, you must create a new revision of the asset.

The first revision of the asset in this case would be kuid2:12345:9876:1

After you release this, any further revisions must have the last number (ie :1 above) upped by a number. So the second revision will be kuid2:12345:9876:2, the third revision would be kuid2:12345:9876:3, and so on.

This is a fundamental function of the KUID/assetID system in Trainz.

its not needed to change the kuid/version if you just add language tags/localisation
because the basic functionality is not changed.
ok some will have the ones without, but they work fine.

Click to expand...

As with software, if you make a change to an asset, and it is to be released in any way, that change results in a new revision. This means that the KUID number's revision number must be increased.

I understand there is a crew of users helping with assets on the DLS?
Why not a forum part, where they post what they do/updated and why
and where users can suggest changes to repair?

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To protect the members of the CRG from being abused by other members (which did occur when the content repair system was public!), the CRG is a private group. Their role is only to make the minimum changes needed to repair their content, so that it remains error free. All CRG updates are placed onto the DLS.

Again, any time they make an update it becomes a new revision.

When an asset is added to the repair list, the creator will be informed of the errors that resulted in it being there. We are aware of some assets where the emails may not have been received, however when this was looked into an the emails were sent out for the reported assets.

If DLC packs are made of routes, it could just contain the route and sessions
all other stuff its handier if its DLS items. and specially not with locked textures.

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All DLC packs need to contain all required assets within them.

This in part is to simplify installation for users, by making it fully self-contained.

However it's also a requirement for DLC packs sold through some stores, in particular through Steam and through the AppStore.

It must be noted that DLS content in DLC packs is not encrypted. The only change that occurs during this packaging is the same as if the asset were included within Trainz (even back to TRS2004...), which is conversion of the image and .texture.txt files to a single .texture file which is the native texture format for Trainz(and yes, the original source image and .texture.txt file are removed). These assets can be overwritten with the DLS asset, if you install the DLS asset from a cdp file from the DLS; or can be overwritten with a local copy of the asset if you have one.

This .texture format sometimes changes as the technologies in Trainz change, but it is not an encrypted or locked format.

MP routes require dependencies on the DLS, what happens
people steal content from external sites, give it their kuid and upload to DLS
this is serious polution and not fair to original creators.
The key of a MP route/session is that everyone has the same content right?
remove the DLS requirement and you keep it all cleaner.
Its up to the content creator where he offers items.
Its up to the user, to get those items.

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A key requirement of multiplayer is that everyone has exactly the same content as each other. Not just the same asset ID, but that the content is not changed as well.

A good example of this is if players have the same industry 'asset' installed, but player 1's is 20m shorter than the original because it was locally edited to use a shorter mesh (or they received a modified copy from another website/source).

In this situation, player 1 is going to be seeing a broken track. He may avoid that location, but player 2 with the correct longer asset drives through there. On player 2's screen the train passes over it fine, but on player 1's screen the train derails. This suddenly results in the train both being derailed and not derailed, which should generally then result in player 2's train just suddenly derailing (since it has derailed).

This isn't fair to player 2, but also causes player 1 to not be able to use all of the route.

The solution here is to ensure that only assets with the following statuses can be used in multiplayer: 'builtin', 'installed from DLS', or 'installed, payware'. Or more specifically, any asset marked as 'modified' cannot be used in multiplayer.

If other people are releasing a creator's content without their permission on the DLS, then the creator simply needs to contact us to request it be removed. Except on weekends, this is generally processed within 24-48 hours of receiving the report...

But we can only do this when the creator reports it to us.

Too much time is currently wasted to get and repair stuff.
this is not play/enjoy time. Trainz should be fun, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, Trainz should be fun. And a bit part of that for us has been to streamline installing content as much as possible. This is why we package all dependencies into DLC packs, so that users don't need to go on dependency hunts on their DLC pack purchases (or have to work out how to install DLS dependencies on a DLC pack).

This is also why we have introduced the Content Repair Group system, so that faulty assets are repaired instead of making players have to work out why the content is faulty, and then have to work out how to repair it.

This is also why we have error checking on new DLS uploads, to ensure that new uploads meet the current requirements for Trainz. And yes, these can change as we find new issues/problems that are being found or caused by specific assets that have bugs/errors/issues in them.

Regards

TY, Zec
A well written wall of text defending the choices, will not solve the problem unfortunately
actually listening and doing something with the feedback from the community will.


I know how the system with kuid2 works, I choose not to use it in 2004, to keep polution to a minimum
what is not used and already in the game is this: Parent_ID

I've written the version the user installs and what version of Trainz its for
So what you can do to keep it clean (keep the kuid or kuid2) yet the info screen shows a version
this reduces the number of items on the DLS and keeps it cleaner.


DLC
If the choice is a DLC contains all items, fine, but then the items cannot be used later in routes people build
a route builder does not know easy which item is DLC or DLS at the moment he places it in Surveyor
there is no easy filter, in the top menubar where you can turn ALL DLC/payware items off.


.texture.txt
cost me 1000's of hours, drove me away from Trainz for 11 years
and is a dayly annoyance to all trainz content creators and users,
just have to read the forum posts.


MP
We agree for MP all users need the same items, it makes sense,
not where the actual dependencies are hosted.
By being stubborn and only allow DLS, you limit MP and polute the DLS.


Stolen items, only the creator can ask to remove ? no that is wrong
If you host stolen items, you are in the wrong I'm afraid.


I respond and write because I love Trainz,
I see the dayly struggle many new users and even veterans have
How over the years the system has become too complex and poluted
often because of wrong choices in the past.


Stop typing and fix SP3 pretty please with cherry on top
greetings GM

G.M. said:

actually listening and doing something with the feedback from the community will.

Click to expand...

We actually do listen, and take on a lot of feedback. But where something is not going to be changed (or we have a method that is the recommended or correct way of achieving a result) we will let you know what this is... This is what I've been doing here.

I know how the system with kuid2 works, I choose not to use it in 2004, to keep polution to a minimum

Click to expand...

So you intend to provide no way for route builders, session creators, and end users to ensure that they have the correct version of your asset installed.

In other words, a session builder users the latest 'update' (actually not an update, it's the same asset...) to your asset. End user has an 'older' version installed. They then strike issues with it not working. Both users see the same asset installed. There is no obvious way for them to know this, without knowing that they need to view the details...

Or, you can use new revisions which ensures that the session *requires* at minimum the version of asset used during it's creation.

what is not used and already in the game is this: Parent_ID

Click to expand...

This is definitely used. It is used to tell you which route is required for a session.

I've written the version the user installs and what version of Trainz its for
So what you can do to keep it clean (keep the kuid or kuid2) yet the info screen shows a version
this reduces the number of items on the DLS and keeps it cleaner.

Click to expand...

If you release this asset on the DLS, you would have no way of releasing any further updates unless you use the kuid2 revision system or an obsolete table (and a whole new KUID). We don't allow overwriting of an asset already on the DLS.

If the choice is a DLC contains all items, fine, but then the items cannot be used later in routes people build
a route builder does not know easy which item is DLC or DLS at the moment he places it in Surveyor
there is no easy filter, in the top menubar where you can turn ALL DLC/payware items off.

Click to expand...

The asset on the DLS and in the DLC pack are the same asset, minus the compression of textures in the DLC pack.

The filter system, in both Content Manager and Surveyor, allows you to filter assets that are:

'on download station' (with both true/false options; so you can also list assets not on the DLS)
'builtin' (again with both true and false options)
'payware' (again with both true and false options)

and many many more filter options. I'd definitely recommend checking them out

.texture.txt
cost me 1000's of hours, drove me away from Trainz for 11 years
and is a dayly annoyance to all trainz content creators and users,
just have to read the forum posts.

Click to expand...

The .texture.txt format has been a requirement of Trainz for about 20 years now. Yes, if you didn't follow the guidelines, you could sometimes make content work without it, but this content was considered incorrectly built and later versions correctly displayed it as faulty.

The .texture.txt file provides you a range of options to configure how each individual texture file is handled by Trainz; you may not personally need any of these however many creators do need them...

When an asset is submitted, Trainz converts the provided image file and the .texture.txt file to a graphics card native format. This greatly improves performance of loading textures, and allows generation of the mipmaps etc. This is an essential part of game operation, not doing this both slows down the loading of textures, but also impacts the usage of the textures whilst in Trainz, both of which result in poorer performance.

There's tools available now that can automatically generate the .texture.txt file if you need it, and Trainz itself can automatically generate these when you submit an asset that uses the FBX/trainzmesh format.

MP
We agree for MP all users need the same items, it makes sense,
not where the actual dependencies are hosted.
By being stubborn and only allow DLS, you limit MP and polute the DLS.

Click to expand...

Again, there is no way to ensure that all users have exactly the same assets installed unless they are from a 'reliable' source that Trainz can check.

You've already proven to me that you don't understand how to ensure that each player has the same version of an asset installed, by refusing to use the revision system (and instead hoping players read the description and understand your personal version numbering system). So I'm not sure it's worth actually discussing this one further.

Stolen items, only the creator can ask to remove ? no that is wrong
If you host stolen items, you are in the wrong I'm afraid.

Click to expand...

The only people who know for sure that those items are stolen/uploaded without permission are the creator and the uploader. Anyone else is either guessing, or playing word-of-mouth.

I have had multiple cases of people contacting us saying an asset was uploaded without permission, when it wasn't their asset, and the asset was actually uploaded with permission, because they didn't like the uploader. Same happens with forum post reports, and so on.

So no, we won't accept some random person reporting stolen content. We will accept any report from the original creator of the asset, and will act on it as required.

I've been in the community for a good 17 years now; making content in my spare time for 16 years, and working to help this community for the last 12 years. My aim is always to provide the best information I can, but all I can do is provide that information, I can't make you use it. If you don't wish to use it, then that is fine, but that is also your choice, and you need to be prepared for things to not go the way you want...

Trainz is, and has been for most of it's life, been designed to be as accessible for a wide range of users as possible. This includes making it easy for players to know they have the latest version of an asset installed, and now easy for players to install additional content.

Regards
Zec

I will not change to another user account(simply dont have another) to reply
Noone doubts your value to Trainz or the community, cool you also do TRS in your free time, same here.


I can write books how I traveled my country to go to train fairs, to promote TRS2004,
with a pc in a shopping bag showing your product without any thanks or payment but I won't.


The dayly mails I receive, of users needing items fixed, I do it with love.
I try to keep the dutch users interested for Trainz but many just give up.
why? SP's that break not improve.


on topic, how does any of our typing solve:
-'unknown' Auran assets (the start of this topic)
-insane number of versions, that no-one understands or can find
-DLC vs DLS and the mess it creates
-Near impossible to actually play MP
-Polution on the DLS (stolen or not)
-the struggles users have (just read the forums)


again, please fix SP3 so we can move on
greetings GM

Just a note on one point, Kuid 2's are essential and simply and certainly no problem. Example (and this is from personal experience), make an asset and upload it, then find you've made a mistake or forgotten to add a feature, or simply want to improve it (like me making driveable ships then working out how to add crew). Update the item, don't clone it. Upload to the DLS and when anyone downloads it, they get the latest better version and the old one is obsoleted. Simple I'd say.

Sure Alikiwi, I see why it was done, but after your update there are now 2 versions on the DLS right? that's the polution i talk about
so the 583314 we now see on the DLS are maybe just 200k unique items and many doubles or triples.
If I host my own content and have full access, I can keep it clean, besides that I can offer it at much faster speed.

Hi G.m.
It seems you have no plans to actually use the KUID system properly, such as creating actual updates for assets, nor to use the DLS to release assets, so I'm pretty certain it's not worth continuing here...

But please remember it is then up to you to explain to users why they need to overwrite, and submit edits. And how to ensure that they have the latest version, or why a session isn't working because they have an old version installed, because you choose to use your own versioning system that Trainz doesn't recognize


On the topic of the DLS, as a test, right now, there are approximately 389448 unique assets on the DLS, according to my Content Manager here. This is excluding old revisions of the same asset (the 'Download Station' filter preset in Content Manager is setup to automatically exclude out of date/obsoleted assets). It of course may include clones by other members, or cases where a creator has made an entirely new asset to release an upgrade (ie there's two totally separate assets for the 'old' and 'new' versions). But in terms of the assetID system, there's 389k unique assets on the DLS.


This is compared to a total of 548039 assets on the DLS (again according to Content Manager). So of the 548039 assets, there are 158,591 assets that are obsoleted versions of assets. So not the '200k unique items' you suggest, but rather 150k items that have been updated/repaired over the last 18 or so years, out of 548k assets.

Since you have again given me a list to reply to...

-'unknown' Auran assets (the start of this topic)

Click to expand...

If it was a DLS asset, and an update is in a DLC pack, let us know and we can place that asset onto the DLS. Pretty simple, and I've repeated this quite a few times. I'm the one that normally processes these uploads, so I can say it gets done pretty quick...

If it's exclusive to a DLC pack, then you'll need that DLC pack installed. No different to any other payware content really, if it's an exclusive part of a paid item, then you need to pay for and install that item to access it...

-insane number of versions, that no-one understands or can find

Click to expand...

In all honesty, you seem to be the only one struggling to work out that out of kuid:12345:9876, kuid2:12345:9876:1, and kuid2:12345:9876:2 the latest version will have the highest number on the end...

-DLC vs DLS and the mess it creates

Click to expand...

As I previously said, right now the DLC system builds the DLC pack using the assets from the DLS. It will be very rare that a non DLS update to a DLS asset ends up in a DLC pack, unless the creator of the asset authorises it.

In the rare cases of this happening, simply letting us know (like I said above) will get it placed onto the DLS.

Again, the filter tools in Content Manager will help you to verify if an asset is on the DLS or not. Even if shown as 'builtin', if it is on the DLS it would still be listed in the content list.

-Near impossible to actually play MP

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I spent many hours over the lockdowns in Melbourne last year playing multiplayer Trainz with friends. It's definitely not 'near impossible' to play, but of course it does require following the rules for it. If you want to use a non DLS route, or non DLS content, then you're not going to be able to.

-Polution on the DLS (stolen or not)

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One man's trash is another man's treasure. We do error checking on new uploads to ensure that they are error free, however we don't impose any 'minimum standard of quality' on content as who am I, or you, or any one else to judge that content is/isn't good enough to share (so long as it's error free, and not breaking the code of conduct).

Sure, there's lots of content that isn't up to your personal taste's or standards. But that doesn't mean it's 'pollution'.

I will not change to another user account(simply dont have another) to reply

Click to expand...

My apologies if using my personal account, during my personal time, offended you... I try to avoid using my work account during my personal time, unless I absolutely need to.

Regards

Hi Zec
My content manager for SP3 111951 shows the following in CM

389448 = mine 343366 I am 46082 assets short
548039 = mine 581603 I have 33564 more assets
158591 = mine 029557 I have 129034 fewer assets

Basic 110491 download shows, Installed Payware
389448 = mine 382455, Payware 1453
548039 = mine 551897, 551897
158591 = mine 009724, Obsolete Payware 2


Sp2 with some DLC packs shows, Installed Payware
389448 = mine 343099, Payware 5299
548039 = mine 541638, 581638
158591 = mine 029787, Obsolete Payware 349

TY Zec, ofc. I'm not offended if you use another account it's your personal choice.
and that you type in your free time is appreciated (give the guy a raise!)


What we reached sofar:
first I got info I didn't know:
-Now know how many are unique so 150k updated
-We do not know how many items are copies under another kuid (you'll be surprised)
-I learned that Parent_ID, is actually used, TY


I may be an annoying user to N3v but I see on the forums not everyone dares to speak up
many users facing over complex ways of getting items not knowing why it does not work.
I respect you stand by choices made in the past even if not handy.


Try to do something with the problems users have,
not reply bug reports with standard, it's your fault or its current design answers.
If you don't see how for many its a mess, we have a serious problem.


We (I hope) want Trainz to be fun user-friendly for any user,
not turn into some elite forgotten game, where only those that studied remain.


I also play another game for the last 17 years called Runescape (jagex UK)
they listened to and implemented what I bring in (and other users ofc.)
it went from a kitchen table developed game to a million+ subscribed users
its a total different genre, but development is comparable.


I love Trainz, thats why i post, help users and make content.
I know you also do
greetings GM

This is getting somewhat over complicated?

Conclusion, if it was on the DLS but has been superseded by an updated payware or builtin, let Zec know and the update will be put on the DLS, this works as it was done for some of my assets, I may add very quickly so no harm done.

Or as I did some time ago upload updates myself for a few items to correct the problem, not worth getting all wound up over IMO ;o)

This post is not suppose to be a dig on "ANYONE":

The last 6 years of working at IBM I was in charge of the worldwide data base for batteries used in ALL systems throughout the company. That having been said here is my observation after 20 years of doing trains......

A database is only as good as the information placed in said database. It must be consistent and always reflect the same information for the same item. Two entries for the same item no-one knows which to use.....especially when searching for an item.

Another issue is being uniform with the information, [always reflect the same information for the same item], there are numerous items in the download station that are vehicles but you'd never know it.....

1. It has a bazaar encrypted name that only the creator can discern [aka BVg_tl_v1] (just an example not real cause I didn't want to dis anyone)
2. It has a bazaar encrypted name that might be a vehicles and people (category class (VL & OH) but are listed as a building (BI), one could not find this w/o searching the database, which blows up the selling point of type in tree in surveyor and get a list of trees in the surveyor window...... (this might have been fixed ? have spent way too many hours renaming changing information in the config file to correct assets!
3. Placing a tag/handle at the beginning of an asset makes it a PITA to find stuff (you need to remember who did what just to keep a running list of tags/handles) Keep the database consistent for the first part of the entry the add what you want. (this also makes the small window that the assets a peer more useful because you read the item not the handle/tag first)
4. I'm NOT saying the way I do things is the best but it does allow for much-language bazaar names to be used.
• [V] - Vehicle but I do chance the Category Class
• [MV] - Military Vehicle
• [CV] - Construction Vehicle
• [A] - Airplane
• [MA] - Military Airplane
• - Ship
• [MS] - Military Ship
• - Boat
• [P] - People
Standard gauge steam locos start with first the configuration 0-6-0(T for tank) (RR name) (#) then the rest falls as it may.
Smaller gauge steam locos and rolling stock start with (42ga, 36ga, 30ga, 24ga etc) 0-6-0(T for tank) (RR name) (#) then the rest falls as it may. Those that are link and pin pre-1900 I use {l/p} to preface the names [of course you have to add the word "Tender" for tenders cause not everyone codes them correctly so they show up in a tender classification search.......
Traction is [T] for the preface of electric engines

This gives you and idea of what I do right - wrong - or indifferent to put the database in a more usable form w/o lots of stuff at the beginning of an entry..... Any movable "NOT an Engine" shows up as a train so it's easy to let the database be sorted by that criteria.

I get it that you have a gazillion people adding stuff to the DLS, your working on new code....that sells product. But your developers and asset creators need to make everything as simple as possible..... KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid). I was a technician for 33 years and I consider myself computer savvy. I get that some people aren't even at this lever and I am in AWE of individuals that create layouts, rolling stock, scenery and engines for this simulator that we ALL are trying to use at all levels of knowledge. I can see why someone would get frustrated with missing content and that fact that "some" items are faulty. It's also frustrating to find an item download it and it comes up faulty.....

○ I have GREAT respect for individuals that create layouts and content....as I have not done any myself..... I have changed several layouts that I found changing them from a basic layout to a room format..... I have figured out how to create train traffic on a shelf layout......but never created anything from scratch.

Again I do NOT wish to insult ANYONE just trying to say I appreciate what is being said in this Forum. You have come a LONG way from UTC!!! Let the FLAMES begin!!!

Dale

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Dale,

Like you, I came from the world of databases. As an end-user, I saw firsthand some of the issues you mentioned here in a real-world company business system because the people running the system never enforced data entry rules either automatically in the system or through instructions.

Anyway, back to Trainz.

The naming convention has been an issue from day one. The problem we have is the assets are created by users who use their native language or use abbreviations and jargon for the asset names. If there was an easy way for us to rename assets, without editing config.txt files, this would be very helpful, but sadly there is not so we're stuck with assets we don't remember unless we want to modify the assets.

This wouldn't be an issue if this was enforced by Auran way back in the olden days, but like a lot of things including error-checking, this was sadly neglected during the heady crazy times. If N3V, or then Auran was also the sole content creator, there also could be more control over this, but unfortunately, this is an opensource content environment.

The asset category issue is also something that should have been enforced from day one, but that is difficult because there's no system that can really tell what an asset is automatically given that the number of assets being uploaded, especially in the beginning, would be impossible to police with human intervention. Again, if N3V were the sole proprietors and creators of assets, this wouldn't have been the problem it is now.

What caused this?

Again, this is end-user content. If N3V, or back then Auran, running the show and was creating all the content, this would have been correct right in the beginning, but this was never the case since this is an opensource content type of program. The issue is caused by two factors. The content-creator in many cases, especially in the beginning, cloned an existing asset, or copied an existing config.txt file. The config.txt file may have been correct initially, let's say for a building, but the new asset is now going to be a tree, for example. The content-creator creates the asset, plugs in the old config.txt file and updates the fields to match. The problem is the important tag, the kind tag, isn't updated so now we have a tree classified as a building instead of as flora. Given the sheer number of assets, sometimes from one content-creator, this issue gets replicated over thousands upon thousands of the same kind of asset.

The other issue is the content-creators never bothered in many instances to follow the content-creator's guide. This was once a hefty volume made available in the past. Today, this information is now on the Wiki and more searchable, but clumsy as it is. So again, the content-creator will copy an existing asset and update the information to protect the innocent, change out what's needed an upload. This may not be the case with some content creators, but the issue still exists today.

It is the price we pay for having such a wide variety of assets made and freely shared by creative people all around the world. With 20/20 hindsight, it is easy to say now what should have been done then but would those sometimes independent thinking creators have all stuck around if the "powers that be" had been more heavy handed? Who knows?

It is not all in the name, which I agree should be readable to anyone
as its an English language based TrainsSimulator, English is prefered


When you open Content Manager, there are columns for:
-Author Username, so that should not be in the name
-Asset ID=kuid, also not needed to put in the name
-Type, this sadly not implemented well
FI: bogey, pantograph, Interior, horn sound, engine sound, engine specs
are all called Train Component, although the game knows the difference
it knows this from the "category" wiki link here

Think we as creators and n3v as basegame creator, should think more before giving a name
n3v has FI many base items called "untitled"


ty for your thoughts Dale, no flame from me
greetings GM

UNKNOWN ASSETS - UnKNOWN location - asset description is there and it helps ID a KUID.
>> BUT it is in an update pack #110491 which I cannot find or download or an older KUID version is on the DLS but NOT the newer version.

>> The route/session I am trying to install wants the newer version/asset and the KUID Index shows it is in the #110491 update.

Where is the update or the assets and how can I download it.

This is not my first post on this particular update issue.

Is the KUID Index mistaken? If not then why is it not built in to subsequent versions or allow access to the the update somehow?

This week the particular kuid is need is: kuid2:33404:501492:3
If the update cannot me made available, can someone send it to me as it is not a payware item and supposed to be builtin?

Regards,
wmm1216

Can you right-click and select "List Asset Versions"? Maybe it will let you download the latest.
Looks like maybe it comes from one of the Cornish routes, but is used by several others. Here is the list of dependents I have for it, but yes, it does show as packaged:

<kuid2:515942:100169:21> Cornish Mainline and Branches - TRS19 - Packaged, payware
<kuid2:79433:104241:1> Indiana Western 1970s TS19 1.0
<kuid:770230:100143> Wathdale and Fellbeck Railway LMS TRS19
<kuid2:425700:100063:1> Ffestiniog & Welsh Highland 2014 TANE
<kuid:95512:101263> UMR2021
<kuid2:515942:100004:1> 1930s Cornish Mainline and Branches - Truro to Penzance - Packaged

Thank you.

I will check the routes out you mentioned but I can see ver. 2 and 3 listed but ver. 3 is not downloadable.

- wmm1216

It's the Cornish Route again.
Simplest solution until N3V put it on the DLS which they should have done, is to up-version the v2 off the DLS, download it as in right click download this version, open for edit, change the version number to 3, save the config, then do not commit but import folder and import the assets folder from the editing folder, should install then OK, after that just revert to original the old version that's still open for edit or delete it.

Thank you - I was able to get it from Ffestiniog & Welsh.:Y::Y:

-wmm1216

...Auran running the show and was creating all the content, this would have been correct right in the beginning...

Click to expand...

You know, I sort of understand the intent of this comment, but I think it is flawed with optimism. My opinion differs, here is why...

The DEV's *changed course* many times as each version of Trainz came out.

For example: Take a look at the original "guidance" from the very early Content Creation Guides. A lot of things laid down as "the way to do it" no longer apply. I won't bore everyone with details but I would just say that even the DEV's would have needed to make some significant changes early on to keep up with latest requirements. Its a lot of work.

As for copying existing assets and using as a template... I've seen many on the forum give this idea out as "best advice".

I see claims that the wiki is good because it is searchable. (so is a PDF) I have my own term for what the wiki is currently but it's an expletive. The wiki is like a lazy teenager doing the bare minimum and then complaining it is "too much work" to maintain correctly and saying "Your expectations are too high!"

If you just have documentation geared toward end-users who are not expected to collaborate or contribute, wikis aren't the right tool. I guess the assumption was that some non-developer experts would share their knowledge. While Trainz fans *should* be updating it... I'm having a hard time believing that they actually are.