"installed Payware" problem.

Honestly this just gets dumber and dumber. Why on earth does a route have to be build 4.7? I build in 4.6 so everyone with ANY version of TRS19 can use them. This forcing us to use a later build is counter-productive and frankly is offensive. Isn't this a case of (N3V) shooting themselves in the foot? I also confirm <kuid2:1942:28045:3> in SP1 shows as Built-in, not payware. I've also said before )and to N3V) that changing build numbers within the SAME game version is crazy. Some serious re-thinking needs to be done by them or loose creators and players, which equals money. Without all the hard working content creators who mostly do it for free, this game would be dead. Period. I need to do some thinking about this 4.7 b/s.....
 
Honestly this just gets dumber and dumber. Why on earth does a route have to be build 4.7? I build in 4.6 so everyone with ANY version of TRS19 can use them. This forcing us to use a later build is counter-productive and frankly is offensive. Isn't this a case of (N3V) shooting themselves in the foot? I also confirm <kuid2:1942:28045:3> in SP1 shows as Built-in, not payware. I've also said before )and to N3V) that changing build numbers within the SAME game version is crazy. Some serious re-thinking needs to be done by them or loose creators and players, which equals money. Without all the hard working content creators who mostly do it for free, this game would be dead. Period. I need to do some thinking about this 4.7 b/s.....

The 4.7 is for payware, 3.5 is min for DLS freeware
 
Post Deleted. I don't know why I let myself get triggered by these discussions. You'd think I'd know better by now.
 
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Why on earth does a route have to be build 4.7? I build in 4.6 so everyone with ANY version of TRS19 can use them.

Don't know but it could very well be that build 4.7 has additional features, error checks, etc, etc that simply would not work in the TRS19 versions that create build 4.6 routes/sessions.

The 4.7 is for payware, 3.5 is min for DLS freeware

That may be the answer.

This forcing us to use a later build is counter-productive and frankly is offensive. Isn't this a case of (N3V) shooting themselves in the foot?

I've also said before )and to N3V) that changing build numbers within the SAME game version is crazy. Some serious re-thinking needs to be done by them or loose creators and players, which equals money. Without all the hard working content creators who mostly do it for free, this game would be dead. Period. I need to do some thinking about this 4.7 b/s.....

I have to disagree. Every time N3V releases a new version or upgrades an existing version with an SP that creates routes with a higher build the same complaints appear. While you are perfectly entitled to hold your views, I for one see the need to keep advancing the "game" (apologies to the purists) even if it means that some are left behind - myself included. I gave up attempting to create scenery assets a long time ago as it was becoming too complicated but, more importantly, I realised that my efforts would never be as good as the many talented creators who seem to manage using the new graphic technologies (or "jelly coat" as one poster calls them) without any problems. My assets would be quickly and justifiably criticised by the many users here who often post complaints about the "poor quality" assets on the DLS. I just don't have the skills or time that the talented asset creators obviously have.

From your timeline you were not around in the earlier days when assets uploaded by many of the "content creators who mostly do it for free" were full of errors (even simple typos in the config.txt files), used inefficient construction techniques, faulty textures, etc - all of which Auran "let pass" and all ended up badly affecting game performance. While I do not wish to belittle the work of those Trainz pioneers who kept generously supplying content to the DLS, something had to be done. The solution was to set higher minimum build numbers and tougher acceptance standards to reject (with error messages) those assets that did not meet the standards that most of us demanded. Some were upset by this but I for one could see the benefits.

The CRG people have done an amazing (and often unacknowledged) job in repairing the faults in many assets, sometimes to protests about "trampling on creators rights" - I can only assume that these critics would prefer a faulty asset that wrecks their system performance to one that works the way the creator probably intended but was unable to meet.

Keeping the product "the same" in an ever changing gaming environment is a sure fire recipe for bankruptcy. Keeping the product "up to date" is the way to attract new customers and keep the company in business. Otherwise I would be watching the new "Star Trek Picard" TV series (with Patrick Stewart in the lead) on a new sleek looking VHS machine that made me a very nice Chai Latte while I was waiting for the tape to wind forward to the episode I wanted to see. The picture quality would not be HD and probably more like that of the original Star Trek series. Over the years I have spent a lot of money buying Bluray versions of old VHS, and later DVD, TV series and movies that I threw out because I wanted a better picture quality and more features. More money that I have paid out buying new versions of Trainz.

My opinions, feel free to disagree.

Peter
 
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On the subject of DLC route builders having to include ALL dependencies in the package (not even sure how you'd do that as dependency list doesn't show route or sessions), I did a quick look and comparison. The Canadian Rockies route is 255mb and has a mere 934 items, Golden BC is a whopping 682mb with 954 items. My Bathurst route is a mere 67mb BUT has 3,597 items! I think that will be a problem and a pain to package. But I don't see an answer (did I miss it?) as to why and how suddenly build 1.3/2 items are becoming payware when they aren't. That needs sorting.

The file size of the route itself will depend on the size of the route itself (ie how many baseboards are used), and the complexity of the route (the amount of track/scenery/etc on the route). So a relatively small route, or a route with simpler scenery (ie outback Australia) will be much smaller than a large route with a lot of scenery (ie really dense forest).

The size of the overall DLC pack, however, will change depending on the number of assets included in the DLC pack and their size.


In regards to content on the Download Station that became marked as payware, this was covered in my last reply and is solved for new DLC packs. For previous DLC packs, where the updated asset has not yet been placed onto the Download Station, please contact the helpdesk with a list of assets that are from the DLS but have had an update included/marked as payware in a new DLC pack and we can organize for these assets to be uploaded to the DLS.



I cannot understand why TUMES commercial buildings included in my TANE version of timber ridge are now undable to be downloaded form the DLS and are seen by 2019 as an unknown asset.

With recent changes to the DLS Content Repair system, content that is marked as faulty and needing an update may become shown as 'unknown' in Content Manager. It should still download if you select 'download' or 'download this version', but it will not be shown as 'available for download' until an update to repair the errors is released. This update will either need to be created by the original creator, otherwise the asset will be repaired by the Content Repair Group when they get to it.


AFAIK, the bad news (for some) is that only routes version 4.7 and higher are being accepted which means you are going to have to have TRS19 SP2 or higher to get any of these new routes.

This isn't specifically the case. In theory a route with any build number should be accepted through the TCCP2 system. We would definitely prefer routes in newer formats, but we understand that some creators may still build in older versions.

However uploads can only be performed through TRS19 SP2 and higher as only these versions have the TCCP2 system integrated into them. We also generally recommend testing yourself in the latest build to ensure that it will work error free, as this is the build that the DLC pack will be created for when the DLC pack is processed through TCCP2.

Honestly this just gets dumber and dumber. Why on earth does a route have to be build 4.7?
As above, there's no minimum build requirement for the asset submissions. However the submissions can only be done through TRS19 SP2 or higher, as the submission system was introduced in these releases.

However in some cases there are minimum build requirements for certain features, functions, or uses, as we do introduce changes, improvements, etc as needed. At this time, we don't have a minimum build requirement for TCCP2 submissions, so this shouldn't be an issue for the time being.

And TBH, if this were the case, the simple fix would be to quickly resave in the required build and then upload.

Regards
 
...
This isn't specifically the case. In theory a route with any build number should be accepted through the TCCP2 system. We would definitely prefer routes in newer formats, but we understand that some creators may still build in older versions.

However uploads can only be performed through TRS19 SP2 and higher as only these versions have the TCCP2 system integrated into them. We also generally recommend testing yourself in the latest build to ensure that it will work error free, as this is the build that the DLC pack will be created for when the DLC pack is processed through TCCP2.
...
As above, there's no minimum build requirement for the asset submissions. However the submissions can only be done through TRS19 SP2 or higher, as the submission system was introduced in these releases.

However in some cases there are minimum build requirements for certain features, functions, or uses, as we do introduce changes, improvements, etc as needed. At this time, we don't have a minimum build requirement for TCCP2 submissions, so this shouldn't be an issue for the time being.

And TBH, if this were the case, the simple fix would be to quickly resave in the required build and then upload.

Regards

So I can to upload a version 3.5 route from the version 4.7 Content Manager, it compiles it into a tzarc 'pack' that is only available from the Content Store for installation. What version is the route now. Is it still 3.5 or did it convert it to 4.7? If I can only access the content from my Content Store, how do I get it into my older versions of Trainz?

Sorry, just a little confused on this one.
 
So I can to upload a version 3.5 route from the version 4.7 Content Manager, it compiles it into a tzarc 'pack' that is only available from the Content Store for installation. What version is the route now. Is it still 3.5 or did it convert it to 4.7? If I can only access the content from my Content Store, how do I get it into my older versions of Trainz?

My reading of Zec's post is that this only applies to content uploaded using the TCCP2 system for creating DLC, not content uploaded to the DLS.
 
My reading of Zec's post is that this only applies to content uploaded using the TCCP2 system for creating DLC, not content uploaded to the DLS.

Yes, understood, that what I was referring to. DLS accepts version 3.5 and does not go through TCCP2
 
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DLC is only available to Trainz versions that can use the store. It is not for older versions of Trainz. If you want your route for older versions you have to use the DLS. From SP2 onwards the assets keep the version as it was sent, it does not change version numbers.
In the beginning of DLC, some DLS assets were upgraded for the package but instead of them showing as payware they got shown as built-in in error. When you deleted the DLC package these were left behind and have found their way into other routes. Those routes now show them as not active because they are now correctly marked as payware in new downloads.
 
With recent changes to the DLS Content Repair system, content that is marked as faulty and needing an update may become shown as 'unknown' in Content Manager. It should still download if you select 'download' or 'download this version', but it will not be shown as 'available for download' until an update to repair the errors is released. This update will either need to be created by the original creator, otherwise the asset will be repaired by the Content Repair Group when they get to it.

Regards
Nope that strategy doesn't work at all. wouldn't it be better to leave the items to be downloadable until they ARE repaired as they did not seem to cause any issues when used in 2019 ? . I don't think you guys seem to understand just how annoying this issue is for freeware route builders, its consuming hours and hours of wasted time. I really cant think of how you could actually make things any worse that they are , but I'm sure that's perfectly possible.:)

I can appreciate that you want to get revenue from payware, but this doesn't seem to be working very well for those of us who make freeware routes, as the items we have to work with keep changing their status and screwing up what we took months to create . its like the IT tech we had who used to decide to install updates for an entire room full of computers during the day when they were supposed to be used by students, he did it because it was easier for him and he didn't really care what the downside was for others, this was due to him totally lacking in empathy and probably actually wanting to annoy us as we were getting in his way by actually using the machines :)

I'm sure that's not NV3's intention but it does sometimes come over as being like that .
 
Hi All

So I can to upload a version 3.5 route from the version 4.7 Content Manager, it compiles it into a tzarc 'pack' that is only available from the Content Store for installation. What version is the route now. Is it still 3.5 or did it convert it to 4.7? If I can only access the content from my Content Store, how do I get it into my older versions of Trainz?

The route will still be at the build it was last saved in. So if you saved the route as build 3.5, then it would be released as build 3.5.

However it would only be able to be installed into a version of Trainz that supports the current DLC format, which would be TRS19 SP2 and higher. The question I was answering was specifically about making the route in a chosen version, which you can still do.

Since you'll need to have TRS19 SP2+ to upload DLC it is expected that you will thoroughly test the content yourself in TRS19 SP2 before submission, so as to avoid unexpected bug reports if there are issues that come up in that build.

Nope that strategy doesn't work at all. wouldn't it be better to leave the items to be downloadable until they ARE repaired as they did not seem to cause any issues when used in 2019

I have just tested several different assets in the faulty asset list, and all downloaded correctly in TRS19 here. They do appear as 'unknown' by default, but will still be downloaded if you right click and click on download.

Additionally if you download a route or other asset that requires them, they will download automatically.

Note this was tested using the coming TRS19 SP3 release.

Regards
 
Having uploaded a modified route/session. A check on the dependencies (after the event) results in at least 20 of these.
Googling for info refers to 'not active' mainly.
I have no payware routes installed. Is it best to wait till the upload is available then ask someone with an fct to download and check for missing dependencies, or delete them and re-download.
Dependencies of note are the ATSF C30 - 7 and ATSF GP60M.
I have hoping to solve this now this as I am not a fan of chasing dependencies.

You're saying the ATSF C30-7 and GP60M are missing? Well, if you have Mojave Sub, the built-in ones will be overwritten but are still built-in somehow. They become a pseudo-base asset and you can't make new multiplayer sessions or new routes with them unless the person downloading has the payware version of the asset. If you don't have Mojave Sub, then I don't know. You could shoot a ticket to JointedRail as they are the creator of the C30-7 and GP60M and see whats up. Glad I could help.

To a lesser extent, having built-in assets means they don't get a custom cab unless they are directly updated by the creator, which needs to be fixed. My SP tunnel motor, SP SD45, ATSF C30-7, ATSF GP60M, CSX GP40-2, and CSX GP38-2, just to name a few, all have this issue. Hope this is being fixed in SP3 :)
 
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I asked Clam1952 to check his install of Timber ridge in 2019 and it turns out none of TUMES items are being repaired . The missing items appear to be spread out over about 4 routes that are part of the TRS2019 bundle, they are all probably in the ECML route, which I had installed previously , I have not bothered to install it again however, as I do not drive UK routes at all, so if you don't download hundreds of megabytes of routes that you may not want to use, you cannot access those few items .
I am very tempted to just remove any items by TUME to avoid this issue, however since he has a lot of very nice US houses it is a shame , but its probably easier in the long run than having these issues occur if the entire set of routes isn't installed.
Zec, I've once again tried to download the unknown TUME assets from the DLS and it still does not work, possibly because they aren't being repaired anyway, I'm following your instructions, there is a very short pause as the program looks for the item , but it does not download and its status remains unknown. I am using the first version of 2019 on a Mac.I still think the root of the problem is the 'unknown status ' , as its obviously on the NV3 servers, as its payware , given many people are finding this a great nuisance, perhaps you guys need to look for a solution ? A list of dependencies contained in the built in routes that we could access on the forum might be a help ....
 
Hi Dangavel
If the assets were not placed onto the DLS, and were only part of a DLC pack, then you would need to have that DLC pack installed to access those assets. If an earlier version of the asset is on the DLS, then please let us know which exact assets that they are so that we can check into this here. Without the KUID numbers, I won't be able to do this, as there are many hundreds of assets that have been created by TUME.

I did cover this in my previous replies as well.

It must be noted that if the updates are in a DLC pack by Tume (so either Avery Drexel or Seasontown USA), then they would require these DLC packs to be installed, since they are part of these DLC packs.

Regards
 
Hi Dangavel

It must be noted that if the updates are in a DLC pack by Tume (so either Avery Drexel or Seasontown USA), then they would require these DLC packs to be installed, since they are part of these DLC packs.

Regards

indeed,that's the issue, you have to download hundred of megs of stuff to access just a few items and its pot luck as to which route its in because NV3 hasn't provided a way of finding out the contents. if you think that's a useful feature for users, well I don't understand the companies reasoning. The kuids are somewhere inside your DLC packs, I've deleted them all from my route and will get rid of any other payware if its possible. I'll just try and ensure I never ever use any payware in my routes again to avoid this scenario_Of course no doubt more items that were freeware will become payware in the future but if i start with a clean slate hopefully the problem wont arise again for at least a few weeks.:)

Do you realize that there seems to be no actual explanation as to what DLC actually is ? I've searched high and low and cannot actually find an exact definition online , in the wiki or your store. This is the reason why I went ahead and used payware that I've found installed, I never realized that this meant it wasn't available from the DLS. if there was an indication in CM that it was part of DLC pack that would help, but am I correct in assuming that ANY payware is only available through DLC route packs ? I imagine most people buy these, I never do, thus my complete ignorance of their significance to route builders.
 
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A quick look at some of the assets in the ECML package shows the problem clearer.

The following assets in the package are installed payware but all of them have earlier versions on the DLS. These overwrite the older assets and then become unknown when a route that had the older version is opened in surveyor and uses the newer version assets.

<kuid2:60238:38204:2> Dam Pipeline
<kuid2:9:40002:2> 18ft tapered, LPS
<kuid2:64038:26008:1> 40ftvan BandB
<kuid2:122285:3320:21> AJS Station 1x110s
<kuid2:283805:37929:1> AJS Tunnel M (No Track) black walls
<kuid2:283805:37935:1> AJS Tunnel M (No Track) pitch black walls
<kuid2:84609:32160:3> Angle_Plate_Bridge_Road_LH
<kuid2:84609:32165:3> Angle_Plate_Bridge_Road_RH
<kuid2:68236:38010:4> Ash Pit v3
<kuid2:149987:21709:2> asphalt 03 - Seasonal
<kuid2:2300:21124:1> ATouchOfTheYellow
<kuid:9999:921615> ballast 15
<kuid2:2300:21104:1> BambooGarden
<kuid2:44779:25014:3> BD_Cassonetto
<kuid2:33404:137321:5> Black-Berry_SM_spline
<kuid2:33404:137322:5> Black-Berry_LG_spline
<kuid2:33404:501491:4> Black_Raspberry-spline
<kuid2:33404:503670:4> BlackBerry-spline-3
<kuid2:79563:1185:3> BR Class 47 blue
<kuid2:104722:53559:1> BR Class 55 enginesounds
<kuid2:368699:50551:3> BR Class 55 Enginespec ETH (1971-on)
<kuid2:283805:70103:2> BR Class 55 Bogey retextured black axleboxes
<kuid2:283805:41999:1> BR box headcode-textures
<kuid2:368699:50001:1> BR Class 43 HST Engine Spec-TRS2009
<kuid2:283805:55001:8> BR Class 55 blue TOPS 1976
<kuid2:283805:55003:1> BR Class 55 nameplate and logo textures
<kuid2:283805:55998:1> BR ER headboard-textures
<kuid2:283805:253000:2> BR HST 125

The following have both older and newer versions on the DLS

<kuid2:148893:21013:2> Abraum Boden (Dunkel)
<kuid2:148893:21014:2> Abraum Spuren (Dunkel)
<kuid2:122285:3401:21> AJS Invisible Station 1T 3.5
<kuid2:2300:21111:1> BlueWaters
<kuid2:60238:57:2> Boat Trailer 1
<kuid2:2300:21113:1> BlueRidge
<kuid2:2300:21128:1> BlueMountains
<kuid2:60238:58:2> Boat Trailer 2

The following seems to have had an earlier version but it shows as unknown.

<kuid2:58223:26044:1> American Brass Building Roof Spline
<kuid2:60850:23745:1> BR Cast Speedboard Short 010mph
<kuid2:60850:23749:1> BR Cast Speedboard Short 030mph
<kuid2:60850:23768:1> BR Cast Speedboard Gantry 025mph
<kuid2:60850:23768:1> BR Cast Speedboard Gantry 025mph
<kuid2:60850:23770:1> BR Cast Speedboard Short Diverging 020mph
<kuid2:60850:23786:1> BR Cast Speedboard Short Left 030mph
<kuid2:60850:23790:1> BR Cast Speedboard Short Right 010mph

This is just a few of the assets.
 
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