EIT "Manual control is disabled for this juncton lever"

I have a project where I am using EITs to control the flow of traffic through complex junctions and they work perfectly for that. However, whenever I start the session I find that the junctions along an EIT path directly in front of a loco that is positioned at the start signal for that path (and an adjoining path) are all locked with the message "Manual control is disabled for this junction lever". No other junctions on other paths where there is no loco at the start signal are affected. I understand (I think) the reason for this.

The problem is that I want the use of the EIT to be optional. i.e. the player has to open the Driver Command Bar Menu, select the command Set ITPath (TANE SP4 and later) then select the start signal name and then the path from that signal. That works when I choose to use the EIT but the junctions are all locked so the player cannot manually set them, thus using the EIT is no longer an option.

I have set all the paths at the EIT to manual not automatic, and the EIT itself is set to static not dynamic.

I have tried deleting the junctions and reinstalling them, but the problem persists.

The only thing that does work is to delete the EITs, then the junctions are free to be switched in Driver.

Am I missing something? Am I misinterpreting the manual and/or static settings?

I am using <kuid2:61392:8101:76> Enhanced TRC3 invisible Interlocking Tower (SP2 and later). My EITs are in a Session Layer. I am using TRS19 Platinium build 111782 (but this problem is not new to this build).

My only other option at this stage is to abandon the use of EIT completely.

I would appreciate any feedback, advice and suggestions?

Peter

Use Dynamic for the towers. Static will lock the junctions.

Thanks for the suggestion. I will give it a try.

Brilliant, it worked! Thanks again.

All it took was setting the EIT to Dynamic control with the paths set as Manual.

That is one bottleneck in my project removed. The one remaining issue is some of the industry track assets producing error bugs and stalling with the message "Selected train is not under user control" when I attempt to load/unload.

Progress, one small step at a time.

Which assets are stalling? Once a consist enters the industry to load it comes under the control of the asset script so becomes not under user control. Some stalls could be caused by the amount of track on the exit from the industry or signals after it.

"Selected train not under user control."
In the very first session I created I kept receiving that msg at my very first industry. Very frustrating. In my case the car and industry were setup wrong as far as load called for (amount) and load available. It was over two years ago but if I remember correctly I remember that the loading was starting but never able to complete (maybe not enough commodity available), thus, the loading was in a "loading" standstill. Not saying that's what your issue is but that was true in my particular case.

pware said:

Brilliant, it worked! Thanks again.

All it took was setting the EIT to Dynamic control with the paths set as Manual.

That is one bottleneck in my project removed. The one remaining issue is some of the industry track assets producing error bugs and stalling with the message "Selected train is not under user control" when I attempt to load/unload.

Progress, one small step at a time.

Click to expand...

That message is normal with TRS19 as annoying as it maybe it means that the station or industry is busy and we can't move our train until the controls reappear. In the olden days of yore, the train would sit there without controls only.

What is annoying, however, is that message comes up when switching to a non-driving end of a train such as a passenger cab without controls. Instead of being able to control the train internally, the train is "blind" and nothing is available until the user goes to an external camera. I was told "This is normal". HA!

pware said:

The one remaining issue is some of the industry track assets producing error bugs and stalling with the message "Selected train is not under user control" when I attempt to load/unload.

Click to expand...

JCitron said:

That message is normal with TRS19 as annoying as it maybe it means that the station or industry is busy and we can't move our train until the controls reappear. In the olden days of yore, the train would sit there without controls only.

Click to expand...

Yes, I had noticed it before and after a short delay the controls returned. However, in some cases that "short delay" has become a marathon.

The scenario in my project that I am testing involves shunting wagons to and from industry tracks at a "change of gauge" location, not a normal industry where you have to input commodity A to be able to produce commodity B. Consumables and products are being exchanged between the two gauges continuously. That was the first part of my industry problems - the standard M.I.N. assets use an input first then output second production system. There are some temporary work-arounds for that such as loading up the initial levels of output commodities to the max and that seemed to be working. I have noticed, as reported in some threads on this issue, that not all wagons are loaded despite sufficient product stock being available. I have been using the Instant Load Command (a Driver Command) as a work-around for that.

To cut to the chase. In my scenario I take a rake of empty flat wagons to an industry track (<kuid2:102376:63033:3> Multi Ind str l= 60m EN) and load using the Drive to and Load commands. The loading occurs almost instantly without the appearance of the "Selected train is not under user control" message. All but the last wagon loads as noted above. The rake is then taken to a siding and stored there. A second rake of box cars is collected and taken to a second (different) industry track, again (<kuid2:102376:63033:3> Multi Ind str l= 60m EN) and there the "Selected train is not under user control" problem occurs.

I have since replaced the second industry track with another asset <kuid2:30671:27229:2> BI2 General and the problem does not occur. However, this industry has a limited selection of consumables that only contains one item that I would like to use.

JCitron said:

What is annoying, however, is that message comes up when switching to a non-driving end of a train such as a passenger cab without controls. Instead of being able to control the train internally, the train is "blind" and nothing is available until the user goes to an external camera. I was told "This is normal". HA!

Click to expand...

I have noticed something similar. Sometimes (not always reproduceable) after a successful load I move the consist out but if I move it too slowly then it stops by itself while still over the industry track and then the "Selected train is not under user control" problem occurs.

Interesting but frustrating.

Still not happy

Back on topic.

I have discovered that things with the EITs are still not working correctly. I have every path in all EITs set to manual control while the EITs themselves are under Dynamic ownership. The starting signals for each path (the visible ones that I can check) are now all "locked" and, when you move the mouse onto each the message states "signal <name of signal> is under the control of IT <name of IT>".

I recheck all the paths and see that they are set to manual and the EIT is still dynamic.

Just noticed that all the junctions along the paths of a newly added EIT are also locked again!

I am now going to take a long break from this project. Its been 16 yrs in the making so maybe a few more years won't matter. Perhaps it will be released when it reaches 21, the age of a good vintage whisky

pware said:

Yes, I had noticed it before and after a short delay the controls returned. However, in some cases that "short delay" has become a marathon.

The scenario in my project that I am testing involves shunting wagons to and from industry tracks at a "change of gauge" location, not a normal industry where you have to input commodity A to be able to produce commodity B. Consumables and products are being exchanged between the two gauges continuously. That was the first part of my industry problems - the standard M.I.N. assets use an input first then output second production system. There are some temporary work-arounds for that such as loading up the initial levels of output commodities to the max and that seemed to be working. I have noticed, as reported in some threads on this issue, that not all wagons are loaded despite sufficient product stock being available. I have been using the Instant Load Command (a Driver Command) as a work-around for that.

To cut to the chase. In my scenario I take a rake of empty flat wagons to an industry track (<kuid2:102376:63033:3> Multi Ind str l= 60m EN) and load using the Drive to and Load commands. The loading occurs almost instantly without the appearance of the "Selected train is not under user control" message. All but the last wagon loads as noted above. The rake is then taken to a siding and stored there. A second rake of box cars is collected and taken to a second (different) industry track, again (<kuid2:102376:63033:3> Multi Ind str l= 60m EN) and there the "Selected train is not under user control" problem occurs.

I have since replaced the second industry track with another asset <kuid2:30671:27229:2> BI2 General and the problem does not occur. However, this industry has a limited selection of consumables that only contains one item that I would like to use.



I have noticed something similar. Sometimes (not always reproduceable) after a successful load I move the consist out but if I move it too slowly then it stops by itself while still over the industry track and then the "Selected train is not under user control" problem occurs.

Interesting but frustrating.

Click to expand...

Interesting but frustrating, indeed!

It sounds to me you've been grabbed by the station when moving too slow. I hate that as well and it happens more often than not as i move a freight through a station to take the branch on the other side of the platform on one particular route I drive. The issue I've run into, however, is just me taking control of the train from the interior but on the coach end with the interior and not associated with the station. It's really annoying because I want to ride along in the coach and look out the "front" as the coach is being pushed along.

Regarding the MIN industry, that sounds to me as if the MIN script is miscounting the wagons. I wonder if the script is miscounting the number of wagons in the queue/platform. Not being a scripter, I'm only putting two and two together, but have no idea how to fix something like that. I have, however, had that occur if I pass through an industry too fast. I found if I put a track mark before the industry and drive to that, wait 5 seconds, then proceed at 5 mph (3 km/h), I'm able to load all the wagons.

pware said:

Brilliant, it worked! Thanks again.

All it took was setting the EIT to Dynamic control with the paths set as Manual.

That is one bottleneck in my project removed. The one remaining issue is some of the industry track assets producing error bugs and stalling with the message "Selected train is not under user control" when I attempt to load/unload.

Progress, one small step at a time.

Click to expand...

Hi Pware.

Just a precision : junctions control ownership depends only if you are using static ownership or dynamic ownership in the tower options. With static mode junctions are locked from the start of the driver session until the end of your session ; with dynamic mode junctions are locked only for the duration of the path being active (junctions locked on activation and released when path is released). Paths assignment options (manual, automatic AI only, automatic player only, automatic AI and player) has no influence on junctions and other path objects locking : path assignment option tells only to the tower what it should do when a train approaches an entry signal (at 0.5 mile distance). With manual it will do nothing ; with automatic AI only it will try to assign a path only for AI trains ; with automatic player only it will try to assign a path only for player train ; and with automatic AI Player it will try to assign a path for all trains. Automatic path assignment behaviour and path objects ownership behaviour are two distinct things and each one has its option to control it.

So as explained by Stagecoach, if you want to differ junctions locking until path activation you only need to set the tower ownership option to dynamic mode.

Take care that default value for new EITs is static (to remain compatible with standard N3V ITs) and so you will need to change the tower ownership option for all new added towers on your route.

Hope this may help. Regards.
Pierre.

Pierre, thank you for your response.

My major problem with EITs at the moment is that even with the paths set to manual and the EIT set to dynamic ownership so that the junctions are free to be switched, the starting signal for each path is locked at STOP. This prevents the user from ignoring the EIT and manually setting their own path - they will not get a PROCEED signal even if the path is clear. If the start signal is invisible then it is not an obvious issue. So my proposed work-round (yet to be tried) is where I am currently using a visible start signal I will replace this with an invisible start signal just in front of the visible signal.

Apart from that issue, your EIT assets are a great addition to Trainz.

Thanks.
Peter

Peter
How have you named the signals and which ones? I know some signals need to be named with a space in the name somewhere. FRC12 should be FRC 12, I found this out on some of the scripted signals I use, it is the signal, not EIT that causes some issue.

stagecoach said:

How have you named the signals and which ones?

Click to expand...

Thanks for the suggestion.

All of my signals, visible and invisible, have spaces in their names. For example a visible signal "Terowie Station Depart Up" and an invisible signals "TW M01U" according to a set naming convention I use.

Just downloaded and installed the latest patch to 111831. I will see if that makes any difference (hope springs eternal).

Alas, the new beta release makes no difference (I never believed that it would).

The problem of junctions being locked has returned (it was there in the earlier versions).

So I have made a decision. Regrettably the project and session will be released without ITs/EITs. Which is a pity because they are really great at what they do plus I have spent an enormous amount of time and effort adding them into the project, establishing and documenting the paths.

I will make provision so that ITs/EITs can later make a return to the project and its user documentation if and when these issues are resolved.

Thanks to all for their advice and support.

Peter.

If your junctions still show the lock symbol in the surveyor you need to move the track a bit and then undo it. It seems that the lock symbol will not vanish just by changing from static to dynamic always. I did as you had done, set up EIT in static, and had to go through all paths checking for the symbol.

Well wonders will never cease - it worked. Thank you for that.

Now if I can get the EIT start signals to behave I will be back on track, so to speak. I will try my idea of starting the EIT paths on an invisible signal just in front of each visible one.

EDIT: Happy Days!

My workaround worked. The visible signal will show PROCEED if the track ahead is clear to the next signal regardless of the state of hidden "path starting" signal placed just in front of it.

Glad you are back into action again. Sometimes it just needs a small kick to get it to work right, annoying but worth it.

Ahhh! The joys of being at the "bleeding edge" of technology.

Just when I thought that I had the EITs working again Murphy makes a re-appearance. Suddenly none of the paths to a particular exit signal are working. Following the advice given in this thread I tried various solutions including deleting and reinstalling the signal to no avail. Even went to the extreme of deleting the EIT and all its 22 paths. I added the EIT back in and started again with just a single path to the troublesome destination. Still no joy. No asset tooltip messages stating that a junction lever was locked, etc.

So I deleted the path and started a step-by-step restore of the path. Taking it in stages to each intermediate signal then testing. It was the final segment to the ultimate exit signal that caused the problem. This time a junction on that segment gave a strange Surveyor tooltip message, one that unfortunately I cannot remember, that I had never seen before. When attempting to switch the lever in Surveyor it would "oscillate" back and forth while the mouse button was held down and on release it would return to its initial state. I deleted the switch and reinstalled it. There were no further oscillations and it could be switched between its two positions.

I deleted and recreated the EIT path and tested again. The path now worked.

One step at a time and what is next?

pware said:

Ahhh! The joys of being at the "bleeding edge" of technology.

Just when I thought that I had the EITs working again Murphy makes a re-appearance. Suddenly none of the paths to a particular exit signal are working. Following the advice given in this thread I tried various solutions including deleting and reinstalling the signal to no avail. Even went to the extreme of deleting the EIT and all its 22 paths. I added the EIT back in and started again with just a single path to the troublesome destination. Still no joy. No asset tooltip messages stating that a junction lever was locked, etc.

So I deleted the path and started a step-by-step restore of the path. Taking it in stages to each intermediate signal then testing. It was the final segment to the ultimate exit signal that caused the problem. This time a junction on that segment gave a strange Surveyor tooltip message, one that unfortunately I cannot remember, that I had never seen before. When attempting to switch the lever in Surveyor it would "oscillate" back and forth while the mouse button was held down and on release it would return to its initial state. I deleted the switch and reinstalled it. There were no further oscillations and it could be switched between its two positions.

I deleted and recreated the EIT path and tested again. The path now worked.

One step at a time and what is next?

Click to expand...

This is exactly what I ran into when I setup 3 simple towers. They worked once, I thought I had things done right only to find that they didn't work and I recreated everything all over again after deleting the towers and starting again. When I thought everything was done, it failed again for the now third time and I decided it was time to remove them and go back to my simple switching and doing things the old way.