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Thread: Sharing Environments?

  1. #16
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    I did preface my comment with the word "Personally".
    Yes you did and I wasn't especially trying to have a dig at you. I also agree that keeping a balanced view on the forum is important and everyone should be able to express their point of view.

    For those who are trying to represent certain kinds of environments the settings tools in TS2019 aren't easy to use and in fact many Trainz folk have a lot of difficulty with them. With SP3 there have been some adjustments made to the environment lighting and this is good. Tony has posted a link to a tutorial and this is also good. The problem with the default lighting in TS2019 is that the 'Blue' dial is set too high for just about everywhere on planet Earth and this is bad because it makes the lighting too harsh and stark.

    With the graphics software I use the sliders and dials for adjusting colours have a number scale. If the sliders and dials in the environmental control menu also had a number scale it would mean that once the sweet spot is found for a particular route it could be written down and readily reproduced again at a future time.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  2. #17
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    For those who want more details than provided in the tutorial, there is a Trainz Wiki Page at http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...ironment_Tools
    TRS19 Platinum Edition build 111951

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAGG View Post
    Our monitors are not making us to see Trainz in bad colours for sure. This subject is not about monitors calibration, not about desperate TRS19 shaders and not about HW manufacturer's display utilities, it is about us unable to duplicate environment settings precisely, about us unable to copy it and about us unable to set it more accurately, it is about us unable to not waste time with environment settings pain. I am not even mentioning the post processing settings, which can't be switched fully off and which can't be saved in expert mode. Little bonus of this discussion is link to so far very little known tut....
    Hi Jagg
    Your monitor's calibration is exceedingly important to how things, including Trainz, will look. Although it's easy to get used to particular monitor, the amount that monitor's vary is quite extreme.

    I have two screens connected at the moment. My primary screen is a calibrated Asus ProArt screen (PA247Q for anyone wanting to look it up). This has been calibrated using a SpyderPro4 Pro.

    The second screen is an AOC2434, this screen is uncalibrated, but I have attempted to match it to as best I can. It's not really close, it's actually surprisingly washed out in comparison. And this is a problem.

    It's not the best example, but this photo I've taken of the same 'window' on both of my screens shows how different the colours/look are: https://i.imgur.com/GKpvybr.jpg

    It's a large image, so I've left it as a link.

    But this difference results in Trainz being very washed out on the right hand screen, but the left hand screen looks great (IMO).

    Without you properly calibrating your monitor, we cannot guarantee how Trainz will look; this has tbh always been the case, and has been a problem for some creators. It really is as simple as that; and tweaking each route/session to suit your screen isn't really a good option for us to recommend (especially when, no matter what, these controls are still going to require you to tweak them to look good for you). Unfortunately, there is a much greater amount of variation in computer screen default 'calibration'/display compared to mobile devices, which tend toward being more standard (but can still vary).

    This isn't to say the recommended feature wouldn't be useful for route and session builders, it absolutely would. And it's something that could potentially be looked at in future (along with a multitude of other things). But it shouldn't be a workaround for poor screen calibration, the same as would apply for texture creation (ie you shouldn't make a bright red carriage pink to counteract a colourcast from your screen).

    Regards
    Zec Murphy

    Customer Support Rep
    N3V Games (Auran)

    *Please do not use Private Messages for support. Support can only be provided via the helpdesk, or via the forums.

  4. #19
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    I understand Your point fully and understand that final look of the game is rather complex issue. But I also prefer to not mislead the discussion towards dead end. If I consider some other game quite satisfactory on my PC and on my monitor as for the look compared to the Trainz, running on the same mine PC and monitor, it is not the case of whatever calibration thought. The original topics here were the issues directly related to the developer of the game (who realizes them fully for sure) and it would be beneficial if sources of this issues would not be moved from the N3V labs to our PC corners...

  5. #20
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    Hi All
    A few things I remembered whilst out walking the dog tonight

    The first is a little example I made showcasing the affect of Sun/Direct Light, Ambient Light, and the 3 'levels' of the skybox colours:





    A bit strange looking for sure! But the colours are:

    Blue = Sun Colour
    Green = Ambient Colour
    Red = Bottom skybox colour
    Purple = Middle skybox colour
    Yellow = Top skybox colour

    The second part is something a few might find useful, but slipped my mind as I was dealing with a few other things when writing my earlier reply.

    You /can/ configure environment settings in your sessions. This is good news, as you can also clone/edit those sessions to point to a different route. We don't have in-game support for this, nor can we provide technical support for issues that may occur with this, but with some editing of the session asset you can achieve a workable solution for the time being.

    Doing this does require a bit of work to do, but you can generally achieve this by:

    1) Create a new session
    2) Configure your environment settings as desired
    3) Save the session under an appropriate name (ie 'sunny', 'cloudy', etc).
    4) Exit Surveyor
    5) Locate the session in Content Manager
    6) Clone this session
    7) Go to 'open for edit' under the filter dropdown at the top
    8) Right click on the cloned session (it will likely have 'new asset' for the name), then go to 'open' and click on 'edit config file'
    9) In the config.txt change the kuid number in the map-kuid tag to that of the route you want the session on (also change the same kuid in the kuid-table to match)
    10) Add the route's name to the end of the name in the 'username' tag (this helps avoid multiple sessions with exactly the same name )
    11) Save the config, and close your text editor
    12) Submit the asset
    13) Now try loading the session into Driver or Surveyor on the route you set it to use, and see if the environment settings work.

    I have done this a couple of times, but haven't specifically worked with this recently.

    But again, it is important to have your monitor configured appropriately. You may not like hearing this, but it is extremely important, and the issues mentioned by at least one person in this thread (specifically about it looking washed out at any environment setting) are going to be very much related to this. This is something I've actively encountered as a creator, and had to find a solution to (initially doing interactive calibration, and then eventually having to find better ways to actually calibrate my screen, etc), as the cheaper screens were extremely washed out, and definitely affect any game I've put on them (as well as movies, and even live streams from friends).

    Another part that I had missed previously is also the colour profiles, which have been mentioned previously. This affects how the colours are displayed on your screen. I've just had a bit of fun with discord (watching a friend's live stream of Trainz); there's actually a point when it's on both screens that you can make it switch from one screen's profile to the other, causing a very obvious and dramatic colour shift on both screens.

    Some games may have their own colour profiles configured in them, which can help make them look better on some types of screens, but this can cost a lot of time/money to achieve, and is still going to vary a lot depending on how accurate your screen is. Some also work with NVidia/AMD to have a colour profile made for their game, to be included in the drivers, but again this does cost to do.

    Regards

    ZecRail Freelance D1s, Victorian Railways Type 4 DD and Type 4 D1s, and more also available.

    Zecrail freeware DLS Content
    All comments are my own unless otherwise stated.

  6. #21
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    I have huge respect for n3v and Zec but in my naivety I find the sudden problem with monitors a dubious explanation. Why is monitor calibration suddenly a problem after all these years? And why do so many UK users suddenly have badly calibrated monitors, and only in TRAINZ? It doesn't sound the most likely explanation.
    Member of trainz-carriage-wagon-works

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by neville_hill View Post
    I have huge respect for n3v and Zec but in my naivety I find the sudden problem with monitors a dubious explanation. Why is monitor calibration suddenly a problem after all these years? And why do so many UK users suddenly have badly calibrated monitors, and only in TRAINZ? It doesn't sound the most likely explanation.
    Ha ha - exactly so.

    I now have an Asus Proart monitor that can show 99.5% of Adobe RGB and 100% sRGB. It can also be configured to show various other colour/shading profiles for films, tele and other applications wanting a profile other than that for photography. Previously I had a NEC of similar abilities. Both of these are calibrated with a Spyder colourimeter.

    In both these monitors, even the crude Environment controls of Trainz can produce a good look from TANE. Not so in TRS19. The glare, over-brightness, washed-out or whatever-we-want-to-call-it look cannot be wholly eradicated from TRS19.

    ***
    There are two common fob-offs evident in a lot of these discussions. One is from those being a bit fan-boy with their, "Mine looks fine" offerings, which is an implication that if yours doesn't, it must be you or your inadequate hardware. The other is a more direct, "It's your sub-standard hardware or your inability to tweak it properly".

    Both can be true but this doesn't mean they are the full explanation for the poor performance of this or that in Trainz. The fact is that even with the best hardware, properly calibrated, tweaked or otherwise set-up, various aspects of various Trainz programs perform badly, generate faults or fail some basic software quality parameters. To check this, compare Trainz to the vast majority of software that you might have on your computer. Very few modern software packages have the range and degree of issues or problems that are found in Trainz.

    There is a case for excusing Trainz software issues because of the nature of the beast - a program that employs hundreds of thousands of third party assets. But some fundamental aspects of the program are badly coded. My own belief is that it's a case of marketing push over configuration management. Most software that makes this mistake fails in the marketplace. Trainz seems unusual in that a large and loyal customer base are prepared to put up with the glitch-horde because, well, Trainz is a very fine thing to play with. It has so many creative aspects. ......

    However, I believe most of us could do without the "creative aspect" of having to fix lots of fundamental issues or work round a fundamental aspect like the environmental lighting. Some who enjoy furtling in the depths of the software might enjoy such "creative aspects" but personally I'd write my own programs if that was my interest. Trainz is supposedly a finished product - except it never is.

    Lataxe

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