Delete a saved session & all saved after it go with it!!!!!!

I made a special openended session for my grand daughter and I was telling her how to save and re-start and I was trying to tell her that when the list of saves gets big she could delete some of the first ones like I have been doing for 15 years and when I deleted the frist, all the rest disappeared with it.

Are there not enough things to improve without causing more problems every time they touch the code to this game???:'(


Wild Willy the Wacko

The most likely explanation for that (and I have seen it myself) is that the extra "sessions" which unexpectedly vanished were actually saved Driver Games from that Session. In other words, while running the Session in Diver mode you had saved one or more Driver Games in the Session. So when the Session was deleted, the games based on that session were also deleted. This has always been the case in Trainz since they introduced the ability to save Driver Games in a Session and is nothing new.

The filenames of saved Driver Games, unless you deliberately change the name when saving, will have the name of the Session they are based on AND the date and time of saving. The space under the thumbnails representing the saved Sessions and Games is not large enough to show all that detail but when you move your mouse over each thumbnail its full name will be revealed. Any names with dates and times in them will be saved Driver Games.

PS: Another method of telling the difference between a saved Session and a saved Game in the Session list is when you click on a Saved Game the option button Edit Session disappears.

It seems hard to get a concencess of understanding here...BUT:

pware said:

The most likely explanation for that (and I have seen it myself) is that the extra "sessions" which unexpectedly vanished were actually saved Driver Games from that Session. In other words, while running the Session in Diver mode you had saved one or more Driver Games in the Session. So when the Session was deleted, the games based on that session were also deleted. This has always been the case in Trainz since they introduced the ability to save Driver Games in a Session and is nothing new.

The filenames of saved Driver Games, unless you deliberately change the name when saving, will have the name of the Session they are based on AND the date and time of saving. The space under the thumbnails representing the saved Sessions and Games is not large enough to show all that detail but when you move your mouse over each thumbnail its full name will be revealed. Any names with dates and times in them will be saved Driver Games.

PS: Another method of telling the difference between a saved Session and a saved Game in the Session list is when you click on a Saved Game the option button Edit Session disappears.

Click to expand...

In your terms:

What I was trying to confer was "saved Driver Games from that Session" When I try to delete the first of those saves, all the ones after that are deleted also. I am not deleting the original session that I created, that is to be saved forever to be played from the beginning.

The purpose of the "saved Driver Games from that Session" is to be able to drive for a couple hours one day and come back the next to continue trying to satisfy the needs of all the industries on a route but if N3V deletes my most recent saves instead of the oldest ones, I might as well start from the beginning.

Thanks

Wild Willy the Wacko

Each driver save is connected to the one before it. Like the very first session save, if you delete the route the session is also deleted. The base session is attached to the routes kuid.

WildWillyWacko said:

What I was trying to confer was "saved Driver Games from that Session" When I try to delete the first of those saves, all the ones after that are deleted also. I am not deleting the original session that I created, that is to be saved forever to be played from the beginning.

Click to expand...

I just ran some tests.

Loaded a Session, ran it for a few minutes then saved the Diver Game (I named it "Step 1"). Exited TRS19.

Started TRS19, selected the Route and View Sessions options. Selected and loaded the previously saved Driver Game ("Step 1"), ran it for a few more minutes and saved it as a new Driver Game (named "Step 2") and exited Driver. The original Session and two saved Driver Games were present in the View Sessions list for that Route.

Loaded the last saved Driver Game ("Step 2"), ran it for a few more minutes and then saved a third Driver Game (new name "Step 3"). I exited Driver back to the Session List display. The original Session and 3 saved games were now present.

I then deleted the middle saved Driver Game ("Step 2") which, after confirming the action, disappeared from the list but "Step 1" and "Step 3" were still present in the list.

I then deleted the first saved Driver Game ("Step 1") which, again after confirming the action, disappeared from the list but "Step 3" was still present.

This has always been my experience of how this operates.

In my experience as well, deleting the source Session will also delete ALL the saved Driver Games created from that Session.

Maybe the problem only occurs with a " Quick Drive " session!

pware said:

I just ran some tests.

Loaded a Session, ran it for a few minutes then saved the Diver Game (I named it "Step 1"). Exited TRS19.

Started TRS19, selected the Route and View Sessions options. Selected and loaded the previously saved Driver Game ("Step 1"), ran it for a few more minutes and saved it as a new Driver Game (named "Step 2") and exited Driver. The original Session and two saved Driver Games were present in the View Sessions list for that Route.

Loaded the last saved Driver Game ("Step 2"), ran it for a few more minutes and then saved a third Driver Game (new name "Step 3"). I exited Driver back to the Session List display. The original Session and 3 saved games were now present.

I then deleted the middle saved Driver Game ("Step 2") which, after confirming the action, disappeared from the list but "Step 1" and "Step 3" were still present in the list.

I then deleted the first saved Driver Game ("Step 1") which, again after confirming the action, disappeared from the list but "Step 3" was still present.

This has always been my experience of how this operates.

In my experience as well, deleting the source Session will also delete ALL the saved Driver Games created from that Session.

Click to expand...

After reading your post, I went over to my Trainz machine and looked at what I had most recently done and:

I had set-up a " Quick Drive " session and I had 12 saves so I deleted # 10 and 11 & 12 remained but then I deleted game save #2 and 3-9 and 11 & 12 also disappeared.

I then went to a different route that I knew that I had a lot of saves in and basically duplicated what I had done in the frist route and only the saves that I designated got deleted. That was not a " Quick Drive " session.

The " Quick Drive " session idea occured because I had a new large route that I wanted to explore before setting up a conventional session . I also tried showing my granddaughter how to do a
" Quick Drive " because she is at the stage where she just wants to drive with her Raildriver.

I guess I need to set-up some conventional sessions in each route on her machine as explore sessions so the save and re-start feature will work in a normal fashion.

Willy

I make it a goal to never use quick drive for any reason, ever. When it works, it works, but there are unforeseen consequences now and them. And AFAIK, all operations can be realized without it.

I didn't know there were major problems with Quick Drive !

pitkin said:

I make it a goal to never use quick drive for any reason, ever. When it works, it works, but there are unforeseen consequences now and them. And AFAIK, all operations can be realized without it.

Click to expand...

I only used it extensively in the new route I just got because I wanted to explore and see what the possibilities for making my own open-ended session are and it is so huge that I figured it would take a couple days to figure that out.

Not knowing that there would be problems, I tried to show my grand daughter how to get her prefered consist into a route by Quick Drive.

Normally I would do the same on a short time basis in a new route that I did not get sessions with. Some times sessions that belong with a route are not easy to find when the author does not give them a name that makes them show-up in " Content Manager " next to the route.

What are these " unforeseen consequences " that you have experienced?

Willy

I don't know if you are talking about the Quick Drive Rule or the operating mode. You can add consists with the rule while still in driver mode. You can find sessions by examining "dependents" on the route in CM.

I was referring to the consequences that you experienced, and others have referred to. I don't experience any because I don't use it.

It looks like we may now have solved this "issue". I never use Quick Drive and did not know that it still existed. I thought it was removed in TANE but it seems that it was moved and well hidden somewhere else.

I only ever use the save Driver Game option when in Driver to test the various sections of a route under development. It saves me having to start a Session from the very beginning every time I make a change to a route.

I'm a little baffled??

pware said:

It looks like we may now have solved this "issue". I never use Quick Drive and did not know that it still existed. I thought it was removed in TANE but it seems that it was moved and well hidden somewhere else.

I only ever use the save Driver Game option when in Driver to test the various sections of a route under development. It saves me having to start a Session from the very beginning every time I make a change to a route.

Click to expand...

I don't see any "issue " solved unless you mean that I think the deleteing issue only happens to saves in " Quick Drive " and not with regular " sessions ".

As for it being hidden:

My experience is that I thought " Quick Drive Session " was one that is always created by the game by default to give one access to driving in a route. I do, however, see that some authors actually edit it sometimes like one route I have doesn't have any regular sessions but in the " Quick Drive Session" there are two drivers who just happen to be tug-boat captains and there are no other vehicles on the route with drivers.

Maybe every route that I have that has a " Quick Drive Sesssion " under the " View Sessions " tab was created by the route author but they are not hidden at all, they are the very first in the list of sessions under that tab.

Someone else mentioned that sessions should be easy to find because they are dependencies of the route and I do not think it goes that way. I think if it were that way, all sessions would automatically be downloaded when one downloaded the route.( Although we all know that some dependencies get missed for unknown reasons ) I think if one were to download a session that they did not have the route for then the route would be a dependency for the session and it would download automatically, if there is an idenity connection between the two.

Wild Willy the Wacko

WildWillyWacko said:

Someone else mentioned that sessions should be easy to find because they are dependencies of the route

Click to expand...

It is the opposite: sessions are dependants of the route, not dependencies.

Pre-UDS (Unified Driver Surveyor) every route had a default (and automatically generated) "Driver" session. This was back when Routes/Sessions/Game Saves were "separate" and the difference between a Session and a Saved Game was clear. That all went away with UDS.

WildWillyWacko :Someone else mentioned that sessions should be easy to find because they are dependencies of the route

That was my post he is referring to. I even put "dependents" in quotes, but it was still mis-read.

pware said:

The most likely explanation for that (and I have seen it myself) is that the extra "sessions" which unexpectedly vanished were actually saved Driver Games from that Session. In other words, while running the Session in Diver mode you had saved one or more Driver Games in the Session. So when the Session was deleted, the games based on that session were also deleted. This has always been the case in Trainz since they introduced the ability to save Driver Games in a Session and is nothing new.

Click to expand...

True enough, however when I go back to my TRS2004 Surveyor start screen, although it did not have the ability to save driver games in a session, one could see which sessions were going to be deleted when one deleting a specific dependency (i.e. route), because routes and sessions were listed in a hierarchical fashion. The modern Start Trainz screens have done away with the hierarchical presentation, and as a result, as we see here, the user is astonished at what got blown away. The "flat" session presentation scheme N3V has chosen to go with in later releases of Trainz is responsible for WildWilly's bad experience. It has indeed been exacerbated by the advent of saving driver games in sessions which are all listed with their dependencies in a flat linear fashion.

What is needed now is to go back to a hierarchical presentation, such as shown below from TRS2004, but add a third column hierarchically listing the Driver Games dependent on each session.

I think you guys still don't get it!

I'm not confused as to what I was trying to delete. I don't think that we need to go back to an old hiraracle system because I understand the new system and I was not accidently trying to delete the main session. I was trying to delete saves of my driver progress while exploring an emence new route while trying to determine wether I wanted to bother going through the process of creating my own brand of session.

Kind of like Mr. Pware said:


"I only ever use the save Driver Game option when in Driver to test the various sections of a route under development. It saves me having to start a Session from the very beginning every time I make a change to a route."


In the past, I would not normally drive a new route long enough while checking it out to be bothered saving progress but this route is huge and as when I drive my own sessions, which might be for days or weeks till I decide to do a tweek to my session, when the page gets full of saves, I go back to the first ones and delete a couple and that is when I got screwed by the game deleting everyone instead of the oldest ones that I designated.

Wild Willy the Wacko