Is there any explanation for setting attachment points - espessially loco and wagon?

E

ek.skirl

Active member
I try to build a minimalistic loco and wagon with minimalistic meshes. I learned that it is nessessary to have attachment points. And I learned, that locos and wagons have a chasse and at least two bogeys and other assets.
My meshes should be unanimated blocks for minimum 3D-power use. One my further ideas is, to have a dummy trainz-model with fbx-dummy-mash, that may be imported and used for build detailed mashes.

First question: What are the minimum assets a loco and a wagon must have to be a loco and wagon from sight of Trainz?
Second question: Wich attachmentpoint must be setted in which meshes and how they had to be directed (Blender empties)?
Third question: Are there "dummy"-models in trainz yet and how to get their fbx's?
 
Gutentag ek.skirl


The bare minimum for a vehicle on a track is a.limfront and a.limback
to give it bogeys: a.bog0 and a.bog1 etc
a loco also needs a.driver0 and a.cabfront
all are placed in the main mesh of your vehicle/loco
more about attachements here :http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/Attachment_point


the basic points (helpers) place them in top view
bogey points can be rotated 180 degree if needed.


I use gmax here, and just merge points from older things i created
greetings GM
 
The "dummy trainz-model" thing will not work as cars and locos come in all sizes. The attachment points for a 20' car will not work for a 40' or a 80' one. Locos are a lot harder as can have more bogeys. The passenger car I am working on has 25 attachment points.
 
Of course, they all are different. But my problem was to get all the needed informations to build a small thing that runs right. The infos are very snipped on many positions.
And I think that not every one is good in working with Blender (or 3DMax). And in my mind it is very frustating, if I build hours and hours a very fine object, and than I won't run.
If there is a minimum on knowlege, how the bridge to trainz must be set, it helps to define the meshes that are used for the different purposes.
And it is I think wunderfull to see my own thing working in principle in Trainz. This is what brings milestones with positive steps to excelent objcts.

While writing I got a next question: Is it possible to comment something in the config.txt? So there can be in this "Dummy" any explanation (and standard values too) to the attributes and attribute-containers.
 
ek.skirl said:
Of course, they all are different. But my problem was to get all the needed informations to build a small thing that runs right. The infos are very snipped on many positions.
And I think that not every one is good in working with Blender (or 3DMax). And in my mind it is very frustating, if I build hours and hours a very fine object, and than I won't run.
If there is a minimum on knowlege, how the bridge to trainz must be set, it helps to define the meshes that are used for the different purposes.
And it is I think wunderfull to see my own thing working in principle in Trainz. This is what brings milestones with positive steps to excelent objcts.

While writing I got a next question: Is it possible to comment something in the config.txt? So there can be in this "Dummy" any explanation (and standard values too) to the attributes and attribute-containers.
Click to expand...

I think I basically have a Blender source with the basic attachment points set in it. Copy the source then just move them to the appropriate places in Blender. Blender allows you to set the exact values, look for the transform tab, top right and a tiny arrow on the default screen or you can sink to an existing model then copy it and delete the blue version.

Cheerio John
 
Is it possible to comment something in the config.txt? So there can be in this "Dummy" any explanation (and standard values too) to the attributes and attribute-containers.
Click to expand...
in a config.txt you can use:
description "write what you want here" or
license "write even more here"
or use an extension container (never use it myself)
http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/"Extensions"_container
or put a readme.txt in the folder with files.


greetings GM
 
G.M. said:
or put a readme.txt in the folder with files.
Click to expand...
Thats it. The simplest ideas are the best.
G.M. said:
description "write what you want here" or
license "write even more here"
or use an extension container
Click to expand...
This seems to be for me as only a workaround that "misuses" elements.

Is there any one who nows, how the context.txt is included? As data only or es a script-include?
 
ek.skirl said:
...

Are the basic points what is called origin of the mesh? May be I'll see while reading the link.
Click to expand...

If you are learning about attachment points and mesh origins, I suggest you make a simple scenery asset such as a simple 1 metre square pole about 12 metres high. Add some attachment points around that structure and then make several other meshes such as cubes and spheres. For each cube or sphere change the location point within the mesh. Add those meshes as attachments and observe the effects in game. Add an animated attached and observe the effects.

I don't recall ever seeing a rule for where a mesh origin should be but when you start animating meshes you will have problems if the origin is not at a logical pivot point. A single bogey is a good example.
 
pcas1986 said:
Add those meshes as attachments and ...
Click to expand...
Do you mean bringing the origins of the added meshes (and moving them) to the attachment points to make them "visible"?
pcas1986 said:
... observe the effects in game ...
Click to expand...
After that I have a suggestion about the things, but do they really work this way?

Which way Trainz get the mashes origins (are they in the fbx's?)?
And how does Trainz calculate or assume to be the pivot for his work?
Cares Trainz about any origin and/or calculates it himself?

Is there any knowlege about that? Spending times by times to try and search and assume, is that what Trainz is awaiting from me for building assets? Not that funny.
Sory for crying. :'(
Is there any systematic and logical structured document about asset-buliding and the needs for meshes and empties and bones and ...?

I'm not so much want to work in detailed and high qualityy meshes but in the technical possibilities. It is nice to have nice object, of course.
All this is the reason for all my questions. I don't wanna be an cookbook-cook but more creating dishes with the knowlege and combining of the basic elements to maybe create othe things with this.
 
ek.skirl said:
Do you mean bringing the origins of the added meshes (and moving them) to the attachment points to make them "visible"?
...
Click to expand...

You reference the "extra" meshes to the test asset to observe the way deals with attachments and to give insight into modelling with attachments. That way you will learn faster than reading off a page or watching a video.

Lets say you have your tower, which is the default mesh, that has two attachment points called a.first-attachment and a.second-attachment somewhere in the mesh. Then your asset mesh table might look like this:

mesh-table {
default {
mesh "my-tower.trainzmesh
auto-create 1
}
first-attachment {
mesh "my-first-attached-mesh.trainzmesh"
auto-create 1
att-parent "default"
att "a.first-attachment"
}
second-attachment {
mesh "my-second-attached-mesh.trainzmesh"
auto-create 1
att-parent "default"
att "a.second-attachment"
}
}


Trainz will attach the two extra meshes at the location of the attachment points that are in the parent mesh.

p.s. you can use IM meshes instead of the Trainzmesh (FBX) version.
 
Blender has a origin of 0,0,0 all the points have an x,y,z from that 0,0,0 and most Trainz mesh have there origin at 0,0,0 as Trainz will place them by that, some have an offset and all will look at +y as front. All attachments points have an x,y,z and the mesh will be placed with it's x,y,z origin point on the attachments x,y,z point.
 
G.M. said:
don't cry, just start
Click to expand...
I#m not really crying ... :)-)

But my thinking about is maybe vsvs practical people.
And I'd like to dive deeper in the things.

Two question samples:
Why auto-create 1? What does the zero-value, or does he not? If I linke a mesh, I want to see it, what else?
Why using two att-points for coupling (a.coupleX and a.limXXX)? The limXX-info is all one need to find a coupling point in software?

I readed much sites, but there is not realy a system for surfing throug the wiki,. often I find a page nd when I forgot to save the link, I never find it again. Often there ar very old versions and I won't be able to know if that is actuell yet too ore not. So see my "crying" as a criticism and let the aair out of me. Sorry.

I'm a more theoretical man. Ok. So long. I will try to be smiling in future. And of course have fun. :)-)
 
whitepass said:
All attachments points have an x,y,z and the mesh will be placed with it's x,y,z origin point on the attachments x,y,z point.
Click to expand...
Thats it. I see. Thats nice. I think this makes it possible to animate an att-point and not a whole mesh. The sub-mesh follows the att-point. A usefull design-idea.

whitepass said:
... and all will look at +y as front ...
Click to expand...
Realy? I build a smal woodblock loco and wagon and the arrows (red and green) where not right set as long as I fronted to +Y. After changing to -Y this went rigth.
 
pcas1986 said:
Trainz will attach the two extra meshes at the location of the attachment points that are in the parent mesh.
Click to expand...
I never found any explanation of this. This is logical for me and offers an answer of one of my questions. Now I get it possible to change meshparts very fast. The next clever design-idea.

pcas1986 said:
you can use IM meshes instead of the Trainzmesh (FBX) version.
Click to expand...
I don't know something about im's. Are the more flexible than fbx? I got the impression, that Trainz will use fbx in futur.
The fbx-export works for me, for now. May be I change my mind some time. And my only knowlege about 3D-software handlling is in Blender.
 
ek.skirl said:
...
I don't know something about im's. Are the more flexible than fbx? I got the impression, that Trainz will use fbx in futur.
The fbx-export works for me, for now. May be I change my mind some time. And my only knowlege about 3D-software handlling is in Blender.
Click to expand...

Indexed Mesh (IM) mesh files are the older format supported by Trainz. FBX (Trainzmesh) is the newer format.


ek.skirl said:
Thats it. I see. Thats nice. I think this makes it possible to animate an att-point and not a whole mesh. The sub-mesh follows the att-point. A usefull design-idea.
....
Click to expand...

Not quite right. Attachment points are prefixed with "a.". An animated mesh depends on a bone that is prefixed with "b.r.". Although you can animate a mesh in Blender that will not work in Trainz. See http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/index.php/HowTo/Build_a_simple_animated_scenery_asset_in_Blender

Some comments about documentation and tutorials:

The Trainz WiKi, at least for content creation, is mostly a reference. The information is there but can be very difficult to find. But what you can do is analyse assets by some of the better authors and work out what each config tag does and its relevance to the asset. That's what I did.

You can find content creation tutorials here.
 
pcas1986 said:
... work out what each config tag does and its relevance to the asset. ...
Click to expand...
Because of the Gordian Knot of information and their corrallations it seems to be the only way that time.
The last three days I changed the fun into reading and readinge and searching ... oh oh oh. (:)confused::udrool::mop::eek::()*:):clap::eek:)* ...
An up and down ... but pixelwise my brainsmoke clears.

pcas1986 said:
... See http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...set_in_Blender ...
Click to expand...
The next stairs to univers-heaven of trainz :D :wave:

Thankyou all for your replies and tipps.
 
Need a help in trainz android regarding attachments problem :(

Guys can anyone help me with this wierd thing happening in trainz android? When I try to change a.limfront & back position in attachmaker & then I apply those att on the addon it is not at all changing even by 1 inch!!!! But yeah when I try to change the position of the bogies it does changes successfully! , so can anybody tell me what's going wrong here??
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

E
The GOID (GameObjectID) "Zero" Issue and some inexplicable, bug looking mistakes
Replies
13
Views
299
MasterTracklayer
M
A
Attachment Points Not Found but...
Replies
11
Views
810
G.M.
G
E
aCTS (4) – How could it work – The CTS-objects ...
Replies
0
Views
399
ek.skirl
E
I
Loco body attachment points - how to fix them
Replies
9
Views
3K
iannz
I
Back
Top