Obstacles to migrating routes to 2019

I'm adapting the narrow gauge TANE version of timber ridge line to standard gauge in 2019 and some of the inexplicable obstacles made by NV3 just make me want to spit. I attempted to use items from the DLS for the route, but for some strange reason the steelworks, which was built in in TANE ,now can only be used if you install the ECML route in 2019 , this is many hundreds of megabytes worth of route for two small assets. exporting as a cdp from TANE into 2019 results in the assets being labeled as faulty.
I've always found that computer techs fall down in considering the impact of their actions on their customers and this seems yet another example of not thinking about ease of use, in this case its available, ( although how one is supposed to know where it is would be beyond most users, i had to ask another user with Timber ridge installed in 2019 if he knew how to obtain it ) )but only if you fill up your hard drive with a route that you might never ever use. I think I'll probably just change the industry in this case, but it is very annoying to have to do so as the item was there to act as a place for coal to be consumed from mines in other areas. How many other examples of this lack of foresight are there which on their own seem minor, but in practice might actually really make route makers lives even more of a hassle then they are already ?

I ran into the same problem with Drive To Trackmark. Someone I was helping could not install the cdp into their system even though they had 4.6 build.

Its been like that since the introduction of TANE. Many freeware assets and assets that were on the DLS were locked and marked as payware making it hard to get them transferred to the new version of Trainzs.

Lots of Tane assets won't import into TRS19 via CDP and come up faulty. Delete them and download from the DLS and in most cases they will work. Frustrating but at least that way (mostly) you get what you want.

Alikiwi said:

Lots of Tane assets won't import into TRS19 via CDP and come up faulty. Delete them and download from the DLS and in most cases they will work. Frustrating but at least that way (mostly) you get what you want.

Click to expand...

The thing is, these steelworks items no longer reside on the dis, as they aren't in the base build they are now only available by downloading a huge route . I have no choice but to delete them from any 2019 version of the route as they come up as unknown in 2019 and users would not know they are available by downloading Ecml. I think it's crazy to expect users to download a huge route just so they can install a ruddy steelworks.

Every week I check my route if I not accidently placed payware items, then remove them.
the more of those you have the greater the risk you accidently placed them.
thus It is not promoting sales at all.


The .texture.txt (semi-locked texture) is a hassle and totally non -user friendly
what are we trying to protecting here?, a rusty texture which was taken from the internet to begin with?


Lets say you have TANE full(you payed for it), and just need a few items from that in TRS19
it should not be such a hassle. I even doubt if its legally right.


You bought a new house, moved all your furniture over, at the new door the house says, Sorry the couch can't come in !
Go to the store buy all interior for the livingroom. The new couch goes in, but the garden is cluttered with leftover furniture.
Welcome to your new home, enjoy the view !!


It could be resolved if CM had an option, File >> Import from older version. In that lifting the lock.


greetings GM

Firstly a lot of assets can not be transferred by CDP from Tane to TRS19. Secondly, have you downloaded all the Tane asset fixes/updates from the content store? The only steel mill I can see in ECML is also available on the DLS by clicking on list asset versions. You can then select download this version.

stagecoach said:

Firstly a lot of assets can not be transferred by CDP from Tane to TRS19. Secondly, have you downloaded all the Tane asset fixes/updates from the content store? The only steel mill I can see in ECML is also available on the DLS by clicking on list asset versions. You can then select download this version.

Click to expand...

You are illustrating my point, even if all of what you say is correct, ( two parts of the steel industry are there , two others are not, so for a start , that seems illlogical ) how does somebody who is new to the game figure out that procedure ? It's two particular items that used to be built in, now they are not and they are seen as unknown items , so it's not even possible to know what they are , you just see the Kuid, not the name .Firstly, why remove items that were part of the build and if one has done so, why make it such a pain to find them ? If I put a route up for others to use and they can't find the assets, they will most likely delete the route, or bombard me with pleas as to where the assets are, or get stroppy and critical. My point is, nv3 don't make the process easy , it's hard enough making routes with only dis items , then to find that some won't be available or can only be found by going through particular procedures that can only be ascertained by asking for help on a forum is a pain in the posterior .

These are the updated TRS19 ones for the ECML package.

<kuid2:124017:10025:4> Steel Industry - Blast Furnace
<kuid2:124017:20004:2> Steel Industry - Steel Coil
<kuid2:124017:10011:2> Steel Industry - Blower House
<kuid2:124017:10008:2> Steel Industry - Plate-Mill
<kuid2:124017:10016:3> Steel Industry - Continuous-Process Strip Mill - No Name

These are the ones on the DLS.

<kuid2:124017:10025:2> Steel Industry - Blast Furnace
<kuid2:124017:10011:1> Steel Industry - Blower House
<kuid2:124017:10008:1> Steel Industry - Plate-Mill
<kuid2:124017:10016:2> Steel Industry - Continuous-Process Strip Mill - No Name
<kuid2:124017:20004:1> Steel Industry - Steel Coil

You can just install those on the DLS and remove or disable the ECML ones. Do a DBR and open your route and delete missing assets. Now save and your route will have the older versions on it before you release it.

All unknown with a kuid number should be able to list asset version if they had any.

stagecoach said:

These are the updated TRS19 ones for the ECML package.

<kuid2:124017:10025:4> Steel Industry - Blast Furnace
<kuid2:124017:20004:2> Steel Industry - Steel Coil
<kuid2:124017:10011:2> Steel Industry - Blower House
<kuid2:124017:10008:2> Steel Industry - Plate-Mill
<kuid2:124017:10016:3> Steel Industry - Continuous-Process Strip Mill - No Name

These are the ones on the DLS.

<kuid2:124017:10025:2> Steel Industry - Blast Furnace
<kuid2:124017:10011:1> Steel Industry - Blower House
<kuid2:124017:10008:1> Steel Industry - Plate-Mill
<kuid2:124017:10016:2> Steel Industry - Continuous-Process Strip Mill - No Name
<kuid2:124017:20004:1> Steel Industry - Steel Coil

You can just install those on the DLS and remove or disable the ECML ones. Do a DBR and open your route and delete missing assets. Now save and your route will have the older versions on it before you release it.

All unknown with a kuid number should be able to list asset version if they had any.

Click to expand...

Well this is interesting, i just attempted to download the items again within 2019 on my mac and all came up on the DLS without any problems .I downloaded them and they now show no faults, yet I've done this about 4 times before and nothing worked, Ive not changed a thing since the last time I tried, no db repairs, the only thing i did was delete the last downloads of the assets from the DLS which i'd already done twice . However they are still missing in the route and showing as unknown , as for some reason the ones from the DLs have different revision numbers,
<kuid2:124017:10008:1> Steel Industry - Plate-Mill
<kuid2:124017:10016:2> Steel Industry - Continuous-Process Strip Mill - No Name
within the route
<kuid2:124017:10008:2> unknown
<kuid2:124017:10016:3>

later ones than the ones downloaded from the DLS , I have come across this with some other assets in 2019 and thouth little of it, but it seems to may be a bigger issue than i thought .I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the higher revision numbers at the end of a kuid obsoletes the lower number ? surely the later version number should have obsoleted the assets ? I know I can just replace these with the earlier items, but as to why these are different, later version numbers in this route, when I used them years ago when I made this section in another NG route ( around 2016) which I later merged with timber ridge in 2020 is perplexing ....
. I am confused.... This is not a feature of 2019 that i admire.......

Hi All
It is not possible to transfer builtin content between versions of Trainz. We have never provided active support for this, although some versions it may have been possible (at the cost of using overly compressed textures).

The .texture format is both a compressed format, and can be encrypted. Although some may not see the worth in encrypting textures, this is a necessity for us to use both stock art models (the licenses for these rarely allow these to be redistributed in a format where the textures can be shared/edited/etc), and to ensure that the art from content creators is protected (not everyone will be happy with the textures in their asset being easily accessible).


For content that is builtin in the TANE standard edition, to use this content in TRS19 (unless it is included in the core TRS19 installation), you will need to download the DLC pack for the route(s) that used that asset.

Due to the size of the core TRS19 installation, it simply isn't an option to us to include these assets within TRS19. And in some cases these may have been exclusive to that route, in which case it's not appropriate to provide them outside of the route pack.

In regards to updated content from the DLS, these are often updated to resolve bugs/issues noted in the content. We try to place these onto the DLS when updated, but they do sometimes get missed. Additionally if the content creator provides the updates to us, and does not put them on the DLS, we won't put those updates on the DLS unless reported to us; as in this case it's up to the creator to put them on the DLS.

I have put a task in for our team to look into placing the above mentioned updates onto the DLS. As always, if you do see an update that should be on the DLS but isn't, please let us know.

Regards

The .texture format is both a compressed format, and can be encrypted. Although some may not see the worth in encrypting textures, this is a necessity for us to use both stock art models (the licenses for these rarely allow these to be redistributed in a format where the textures can be shared/edited/etc), and to ensure that the art from content creators is protected (not everyone will be happy with the textures in their asset being easily accessible).

Click to expand...

In 2004 i made the stupid mistakes, to release a lot of content with the old combined .texture format
and yes, to protect my textures i worked on for hours.
When 2006 CM arrived it "faulted" all my content, I spent weeks repairing, got so many forum posts and mails
that i got overworked, stressed and left Trainz for 11 years.


Some dutch people spent hours repairing and even wrote tutorials, how to "fix" my content
after returning I found out the dutch community had preserved, repaired and still uses all my content
I deeply regret ever using that .texture lol.(i learned my lesson)


With every post here on the forums and every reply N3v gives, I'm asking you
try to put yourself in place of a common user (not a content creator or ex programmer)
Any hassle, every error, every faulty, every "unknown" harms the Trainz experience.
will eventualy drive people away, harming your company and yes, your own income.


Every file that is encrypted will eventually be unencrypted, there are always smarter people,
so do us all(and yourself) a favor and stop it.


Put user-friendly at the number 1 spot
We all love Trainz and want to continue doing so
greetings GM

ZecMurphy said:

Hi All
It is not possible to transfer builtin content between versions of Trainz. We have never provided active support for this, although some versions it may have been possible (at the cost of using overly compressed textures).

The .texture format is both a compressed format, and can be encrypted. Although some may not see the worth in encrypting textures, this is a necessity for us to use both stock art models (the licenses for these rarely allow these to be redistributed in a format where the textures can be shared/edited/etc), and to ensure that the art from content creators is protected (not everyone will be happy with the textures in their asset being easily accessible).


For content that is builtin in the TANE standard edition, to use this content in TRS19 (unless it is included in the core TRS19 installation), you will need to download the DLC pack for the route(s) that used that asset.

Due to the size of the core TRS19 installation, it simply isn't an option to us to include these assets within TRS19. And in some cases these may have been exclusive to that route, in which case it's not appropriate to provide them outside of the route pack.

In regards to updated content from the DLS, these are often updated to resolve bugs/issues noted in the content. We try to place these onto the DLS when updated, but they do sometimes get missed. Additionally if the content creator provides the updates to us, and does not put them on the DLS, we won't put those updates on the DLS unless reported to us; as in this case it's up to the creator to put them on the DLS.

I have put a task in for our team to look into placing the above mentioned updates onto the DLS. As always, if you do see an update that should be on the DLS but isn't, please let us know.

Regards

Click to expand...

thanks for that zec, but can you explain why the two built in steelworks assets in TANE have a higher version number than those available for 2019 ? That doesn't seem to make sense to me .
secondly , as a person who hardly ever purchases any routes or content, i was rather concerned by this sentence.
"For content that is builtin in the TANE standard edition, to use this content in TRS19 (unless it is included in the core TRS19 installation), you will need to download the DLC pack for the route(s) that used that asset. "
..I make a route with assets that are on the DLS in Tane , I then wish to move the route to 2019 only to find that some assets are only available in a DLC pack . I'd have to purchase that pack to get the route to work, but how would I know which pack the missing items are contained in ? How would other users know where to find the assets ? I know you guys get extra revenue from this strategy, but its not very conducive to building the number of routes available for users and its yet another issue for content creators and route builders to have to consider when they migrate to a newer version of the game . Is it best to just avoid using ANY items that are built in, because when the next version comes along they may not be part of the build anymore ? I've always thought i was boxing clever by using built in assets as at least everyone would have access to them, but that's not always so with new versions of the software is it ?

dangavel said:

thanks for that zec, but can you explain why the two built in steelworks assets in TANE have a higher version number than those available for 2019 ? That doesn't seem to make sense to me .

Click to expand...

In all honesty it looks like either the TANE DLC pack was updated more recently than the TRS19 one, or there was a mixup in assets. It's also possible that if you have the ECML Edinburgh to Dundee route installed, and not the ECML Kings Cross to Edinburgh route, then older versions may have been included there depending on what the route creator provided. In all cases, assets that aren't on the DLS (including updates to DLS assets that aren't on the DLS) will be used as provided by the creator.

Again I've put in a request for the latest versions of these assets to be put onto the DLS, as they were originally DLS assets.

..I make a route with assets that are on the DLS in Tane , I then wish to move the route to 2019 only to find that some assets are only available in a DLC pack .

Click to expand...

As noted, this appears to either be a case of a repair done internally, and missed being placed onto the DLS after it was confirmed fixed. Or it was an update provided by the content creator that wasn't released on the DLS. I don't have specific notes on these particular assets.

In the first case, this is simply human error and something we are working to avoid where ever possible. But it can still happen sometimes.

In the latter case, this indicates that the route's creator (or the creator of those assets) has decided to make an update to them, and decided not to release them onto the DLS. We would prefer this doesn't happen, but don't actively stop this as it is the creator's choice.

I'd have to purchase that pack to get the route to work, but how would I know which pack the missing items are contained in ?

Click to expand...

If you own the route/DLC pack in TANE then you will have access to install it into TRS19. So you won't need to purchase it again.


The easiest way to check which DLC pack is needed for an asset that you have installed in TANE is to right click on that asset, then click on 'list dependents'. This will show all assets that use it. So for an asset used by a route, you will see all routes that use it, and you can then work out which DLC packs would include it (some may be included in only one, some may be included in multiple DLC packs).

Regards

G.M. said:

With every post here on the forums and every reply N3v gives, I'm asking you
try to put yourself in place of a common user (not a content creator or ex programmer)
Any hassle, every error, every faulty, every "unknown" harms the Trainz experience.
will eventualy drive people away, harming your company and yes, your own income.

Click to expand...

Over the last 20 years, we have been working to make Trainz as easy to access as possible. This is both as accessible as possible from a performance view point, and from a content usability viewpoint. This is in addition to working to improve the visuals and functionality within Trainz.

Unfortunately this doesn't always result in an easier experience for content creators, as to achieve both does require more stringent rules for content to follow (via error checking, and warnings). But over the last 10 years we have put a lot of work (both communicating directly with the community via forums and discord), and via the information on our wiki, to help creators to learn these more modern requirements.

Unfortunately the methods used to create content 10-20 years ago aren't always suitable for the current day, in particular with the expectations regarding performance.

Every file that is encrypted will eventually be unencrypted, there are always smarter people,
so do us all(and yourself) a favor and stop it.

Click to expand...

In all seriousness, we have no plans to remove encryption from payware content. This is being done to help prevent piracy of payware assets. As far as we are concerned, it is an essential part of our DLC system.

We understand not all may like it, but it's not something we plan to change. If the encryption is broken, then it's likely we will change/improve that encryption.

And yes, with all systems like this, there is an expectation that seriously advanced users may get around it, however this isn't what we are trying to avoid; we're trying to avoid the casual sharing of payware content, which has been a large problem at times.

If a creator decides this isn't an issue to them, that's their choice.


It must be noted, however, that 'builtin' content is not encrypted. The .texture files in builtin content is simply a compressed native format for Trainz.

Due to size constraints, builtin content doesn't include the .texture.txt files and image files. These files can be converted using available tools; however doing so will produce a compressed version of the image, which will then be further compressed when submitted into Trainz. As such it is always recommended to use an original 'source' version of an asset (ie from the DLS, or other source) instead of attempting to transfer/convert builtin content. It is for this reason that we do not provide active support for this.

Regards

It must be noted, however, that 'builtin' content is not encrypted. The .texture files in builtin content is simply a compressed native format for Trainz.

Click to expand...

There are a few new cars in buit-in SP2, they look nice, opened the config of Car03


description "Car 03"
author "N3V Games"
license "This asset is for the Trainz Community. The Trainz Community can create other variations of this asset to be used within Trainz."


the license showed promess, so i checked it
Asset-X nor images2tga, nor tgatools can bring back normal textures to reskin or edit
so its locked (built-in and locked)


there is a 14k .jpg thumbnail and *cough* purewhite 1 color (CM tells me not to do that, bad for the game)
I think to myself rush job !


then there is a car03_body_parameters.texture 5.5mb big, i can make an entire traincar within 5mb
this is just a scenery car lol.


So, its worthless to even attempt to do anything with it.
Plz check if what you post is correct (i do)
greetings GM