problems with the sp2

You got a good point there Mike, Unknown assets is annoying for everyone
yes even *cough* faulty you should be able to download
for the DLS and all Contentstore and all built-in from any version they must be in a database allready,
just need to be linked maybe.


I have been thinking as an idea, what if CM could import a kuidlist (made in Excel)
It would need clear rules how the format is.
Why: I think there is even more content outside the DLS then on it
which could easily bring the total over 1 million kuids allready.
This would allow a route builder to have part on the DLS part elsewhere
easier/quicker to find for any user.
greetings GM

G.M. said:

You got a good point there Mike, Unknown assets is annoying for everyone
yes even *cough* faulty you should be able to download
for the DLS and all Contentstore and all built-in from any version they must be in a database already,
just need to be linked maybe.


I have been thinking as an idea, what if CM could import a kuidlist (made in Excel)
It would need clear rules how the format is.
Why: I think there is even more content outside the DLS then on it
which could easily bring the total over 1 million kuids allready.
This would allow a route builder to have part on the DLS part elsewhere
easier/quicker to find for any user.
greetings GM

Click to expand...

Yes, that and export easily as well would be nice. There are times when I want a list to query easily.

The format for importing Kuids is <kuid:number>,<kuid:number>,... etc.,

I was hoping that Trainz Util could export or import a kuid-list, but that doesn't appear to be the case. It does handle pick-lists this way though. Hmmm... Gives me some ideas. Create an imported stuff pick-list? and an exported stuff pick-list then send the kuids out to a text file using Trainz Util and a pipe command since Trainz Util can be run from a command prompt. You just need to start the Launcher up to enable it. I've got to play around with this. This can be automated via a batch and PowerShell might make it even easier.

In reference to the issue that Mike brought up, yes N3V is aware of this issue and with the DLS and Content Manager. One of the issues, which we've all brought up, is something is marked unknown because a newer asset is referenced but we don't have it installed, or we've imported an older route that references an older version, but we've only got the new one installed. Installing the older version of the asset and letting it obsolete fixes this one, and sometimes deleting the referenced newer version of the asset, if we can, fixes that issue as well.

I agree that an asset shouldn't be marked faulty if there's something missing. For my sanity, I setup two "faulty" filters. Faulty for me means faulty, not missing anything, not having a faulty dependency, just simply broken.

Faulty = True

I call the filter Faulty-only.

Missing Dependencies = True.

This filter is Missing Dependencies

These simpler filters make troubleshooting a heck of a lot easier especially after installing a service pack, or importing a lot of content. I believe in KISS!

Yup good idea John, (i see you are a dos guy also lol)
Content Manager could/should easy Export also


So the process could be:
-The route creator lists all dependencies recursively
-File>> Export to .xls (or any comma seperated format)
-In Excel he sorts
base, built-in, DLS, DLC, modified, external/unknown
and only for the external in a, seperate column, add http: links to a package or site


The one downloading,
-imports the kuidlist
-Base, Built-in should allready be there
-DLS, select all and download
-the remainder(now known as "unknown") have in a seperate column, links where to find


not only faster, but also less frustrating for all
+ we make use of ALL content and extra bandwidth


greetings GM

I like your process. KISS!

Yup I'm an old command line guy coming in from CP/M, DOS, Unix, Solaris, Linux, and VMS world. It's quick, easy, and gets stuff done.

GM, John

Whilst I agree that these are good ideas, I would still regard them as stop gaps. As someone who started programming pre-windows and in assembler, I would be fine with this, but for, I suspect the majority of users, this is still too complex. It really is up to n3v to sort this problem out for users who have no programming experience or even know what a command line is and simply want to download an asset without encountering problems. N3v complain about a lack of resources, and the need to make a profit, but how much profit have SP1 and SP2 brought? Why has the opportunity not been taken to do something about CM already?

Mike

Fully agree Mike,
A Service Pack is not a way to create extra sales, it should fix things, especially not break things.
Whenever i see a user post here on these forums, I tell myself, stop, assume nothing, go step by step.
This may lead to too long answers but always gets the job done in the end.


With a limited crew you need to prioritize, the game allready has great graphics its ok as it is
but just reading the posts here on forum it is clear, many users struggle.
Unneeded complex ways to import or move content, unneeded locking of textures, constant changing the tags and rules
it only drives people away(both users as content creators), and not make people buy anything.


1-Stability, 2 User-friendly, 3-improving but not ruining old, 4-generate extra income
4 will happen if 1,2, and 3 are met.


just my simple thoughts ;-)
greetings GM

Agreed,

A program that relies on user created content should prioritize Ease of downloading and make sure that content creators can continue creating content without constantly being worried that all their efforts are wasted because they suddenly become broken or disappear from the list of available assets. As someone who enjoys the creative side of Trainz, but have very limited modelling abilites. I rely on the excellent work of the content creators. Once simple and reliable use has been achieved, then is the time to add new features etc.

Mike


Mike

Stonegate said:

Agreed,

A program that relies on user created content should prioritize Ease of downloading and make sure that content creators can continue creating content without constantly being worried that all their efforts are wasted because they suddenly become broken or disappear from the list of available assets. As someone who enjoys the creative side of Trainz, but have very limited modelling abilites. I rely on the excellent work of the content creators. Once simple and reliable use has been achieved, then is the time to add new features etc.

Mike

Click to expand...

Yes. In short - evolution not revolution.

Evolution is a slow process in which extant genes mutate & vary only slightly to make "better". The larger and more radical mutations generally fail as they both lose what used to work and add a lot of what is novel but no use in the survival stakes.

In nature, large mutations tend to fail as the new-variant beast loses several capabilities they used to have whilst the new capability is something of an over-bred race horse set. TRS19 is too much the mutant - it looks great and can do a new trick or three but its legs keep snapping, which prevents not just the new tricks but all of it's other abilities from manifesting. If someone doesn't keep coming along to mend its legs and calm its rolling-eyed fits, it'll soon die.

Is the Trainz horse heading for dead-duck status? ('Scuse my mixed metaphor). We can only hope not; and that N3V employ more "vets". Just now, they seem to be relying on various passing Good Samaritan users who know how to whisper in Trainz's ear to get it on its hoofs again.

Lataxe

whatever they broke it and now have to fix it.

Well at least it explains where the "Unknown Asset" error originates. Particularly annoying when you download a route actually created in an earlier version of TRS19, 100% DLS or owned DLC assets used.

If people are going to reference assets off the DLS in their profit making venture attempt, these should remain as DLS-freeware, not change status to payware because someone decided to put them in their commercial product. Fair do's if the payware creator makes his own assets for the route, you would expect these to be locked and to own the route in order to reference them (several times over in the case of S&C).

N3V need to sort out their pig sty. If content works in the first iteration of a version then it should work throughout that version, whether due to being used as payware or a change to the spaghetti code breaking it. Keep the big changes for the next full version, TRS2022 or whatever.

I'll be back in TANE with my projects and good luck if any of them work in '19!

I wish there was a "like" button. Tane doesn't give the problems TRS19 does and I'm sticking to SP1. SP2 is like diving from 50 metres into a river only 1 metre deep, ouch! The fight with PBR textures on an imported route is a major turn off, but I'll get there eventually. Not so bad on a new route, but still...

Stonegate said:

Agreed,

A program that relies on user created content should prioritize Ease of downloading and make sure that content creators can continue creating content without constantly being worried that all their efforts are wasted because they suddenly become broken or disappear from the list of available assets. As someone who enjoys the creative side of Trainz, but have very limited modelling abilites. I rely on the excellent work of the content creators. Once simple and reliable use has been achieved, then is the time to add new features etc.

Mike


Mike

Click to expand...

I completely agree Mike. I'm only a small time content creator, but my interest in creating anything more for Trainz has dropped to zero. In fact my interest in Trainz has dropped to zero since SP2, - and SP4 for TANE for that matter, - and whether I might want to continue with it is an uncertain thing.

I downloaded a route earlier this week in TS2019 SP1 and the only assets that were higher than build 3.7 were the track, the Speed trees and the route itself. As Lataxe has said Trainz has become a fragile mutant whose legs keep snapping off and it's only kept going by the community's willingness to keep on fixing things.

Is there somewhere to download trainz 19 specifically build? Or maybe a new beta update to fix the texture problem? I have to admit sp2 is extremely stable, but me not being able to use pbr textures is not going to work for me, especially when my route is completed in the summer.I had to back up and remove 300 miles of pbr textures on my fictional route. I hope my amd card isn't causing the problem, a new nvidia card is nowhere to be found, and i considered upgrading to an rx 6800xt when stock is stable again. Pc parts are outrageous in price if you can even find what you are looking for.

nugget2225 said:

Is there somewhere to download trainz 19 specifically build? Or maybe a new beta update to fix the texture problem? I have to admit sp2 is extremely stable, but me not being able to use pbr textures is not going to work for me, especially when my route is completed in the summer.I had to back up and remove 300 miles of pbr textures on my fictional route. I hope my amd card isn't causing the problem, a new nvidia card is nowhere to be found, and i considered upgrading to an rx 6800xt when stock is stable again. Pc parts are outrageous in price if you can even find what you are looking for.

Click to expand...

Just to clarify, there has been no specific change to the function of PBR and non PBR ground textures in TRS19 SP2. If you mix these together, then there will be odd effects, and may cause the ground textures to clip through objects.

You should avoid blending PBR and non PBR ground textures near objects, especially splines. There is generally less of an issue if you do this further from the track (ie the main viewing area when playing in Trainz).

If people are going to reference assets off the DLS in their profit making venture attempt, these should remain as DLS-freeware, not change status to payware because someone decided to put them in their commercial product. Fair do's if the payware creator makes his own assets for the route, you would expect these to be locked and to own the route in order to reference them (several times over in the case of S&C).

N3V need to sort out their pig sty. If content works in the first iteration of a version then it should work throughout that version, whether due to being used as payware or a change to the spaghetti code breaking it. Keep the big changes for the next full version, TRS2022 or whatever.

Click to expand...

With the latest changes to the TCCP system, only content specified by the creator of the TCCP package will become 'payware' in a DLC pack. This ensures that freeware from 3rd party websites does not become 'payware'. NOTE, not all older DLC packs may be updated for this.

That said, we won't guarantee that the '.texture' formats won't change if they need to, which means that 3rd party tools may not always be able to edit .texture formats (even if not encrypted). The .texture format is a compressed 'internal' format for Trainz, and is not intended to be an editable format, and has not been intended as such for about 15 years, if not longer.

For content updates, this is a different issue. The TCCP system will package the latest version of all dependencies that are on the creator's computer. That said, for all non DLS assets that are not under that author's UserID number/KUID, they will need authorization from the creator of the asset to include it in the package.

If they have created an update to an asset they made themselves, and include this in the DLC pack, then this is up to them. We would strongly recommend creators upload updates to DLS assets to the DLS, but they may have reasons for not doing so. Or may want to hold off doing so till the DLC pack is fully released (and may forget in that time).

For asset updates made internally, these are normally placed onto the DLS. Sometimes, particularly when there is a lot being worked on, they may be forgotten before they can be uploaded. When we are alerted to these, and it was an update made by us, we will place it onto the DLS as soon as possible.

Regards