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Thread: Upload assets to DLS with missing dependences

  1. #1

    Default Upload assets to DLS with missing dependences

    Why is it allowed to upload assets with missing dependencies to the DLS?

    I understand that a route or session is missing some dependencies, since there are hundreds of Trainz websites around the world and they even need payment objects from both N3V or other partners.

    What I don't understand is uploading to the DLS trains, buildings, industries, tracks etc, etc ... with unknown dependencies.

    I consider it disrespectful to Trainz users to waste their time with downloading, searching for kuids and a subsequent deletion of assets with unknown dependencies.

    For this reason, I ask the authors of assets for Trainz (I am also an author of objects), to review the objects and their dependencies and upload them in their entirety to the DLS and if dependencies are missing do not waste our valuable time.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Dean View Post
    Why is it allowed to upload assets with missing dependencies to the DLS? I understand that a route or session is missing some dependencies, since there are hundreds of Trainz websites around the world and they even need payment objects from both N3V or other partners. What I don't understand is uploading to the DLS trains, buildings, industries, tracks etc, etc ... with unknown dependencies. I consider it disrespectful to Trainz users to waste their time with downloading, searching for kuids and a subsequent deletion of assets with unknown dependencies.

    For this reason, I ask the authors of assets for Trainz (I am also an author of objects), to review the objects and their dependencies and upload them in their entirety to the DLS and if dependencies are missing do not waste our valuable time.
    90% of Trainz users are behind you on this point. Really frustrating, particularly if the dependencies aren't on the DLS.

    Cheers, Mac...

  3. #3
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    One source of missing dependencies are assets that are built-in to certain versions of Trainz but are not “carried forwards” as built-ins in later versions, and are not made available on the DLS either. This is something that N3V is responsible for. Creators who may have used one of these dependencies expecting them to be always available can get caught out by this. And they can’t do anything about it because they don’t own the missing asset.
    Last edited by Dinorius_Redundicus; January 1st, 2021 at 08:00 PM.
    T:ANE SP4 (105946) & TRS2019 SP1 (105096).
    Win10, i7 5820K, 3.3GHz, 32GB ram, GTX 980Ti 6GB vram, 2x512GB SSD.

  4. #4
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    Agree with all of the above, but I would go one step farther and not allow routes with unknown assets either. If the dependencies are not available, the route should be on a site somewhere else. Nothing more frustrating than downloading a great sounding route from the DLS just to find out you have to go on a world-wide search for unknown assets, many not even findable, some from wayback sites that may or may not be there, and you spend all your time trying to make something complete that isn't going to happen. And, even if you CAN find the assets, many of them end up faulty or with unfindable dependencies. It's just a mess.
    “We are all travelers in the wilderness of this world, and the best we can find in our travels is an honest friend.” - R.L.S.

  5. #5

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    Third-party assets can add a lot to a route and can make a big difference to a route. I have added a list of all third-party assets and the relevant location address of them into a read me text file within the route folder. It also lists DLC content that has been used. I have also added information about any changes done to an asset in order to get it to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Forester1 View Post
    Agree with all of the above, but I would go one step farther and not allow routes with unknown assets either. If the dependencies are not available, the route should be on a site somewhere else. Nothing more frustrating than downloading a great sounding route from the DLS just to find out you have to go on a world-wide search for unknown assets, many not even findable, some from wayback sites that may or may not be there, and you spend all your time trying to make something complete that isn't going to happen. And, even if you CAN find the assets, many of them end up faulty or with unfindable dependencies. It's just a mess.
    Ok, so if we take that strategy, I should withdraw the timber ridge line because there were unknowns, none of which were essential to run the route ? This was an OLD route ,dating back to 2006 I think , it had many items that were no longer available, dozens of unknowns when I began to remake it, perhaps I should have given up then and there and gone on to work on something else ?
    if you don't want to look for missing kuids, go use another train simulator, its a built in feature of the game ever since I've been using it in 2010.
    Last edited by dangavel; January 2nd, 2021 at 03:29 PM.
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

  7. #7

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    The issue of routes and sessions with unknown dependencies is difficult to solve.

    There are some authors who do not agree with the policy of N3V with the "ownership and use in payment routes" of assets hosted in the DLS and that is why they have their own websites with their assets that are not in the DLS, it is understandable and respectable.

    What I do not understand and it irritates me is that scenery and track objects, locomotives, wagons, industries, building housed in the DLS, and not having all its dependencies and these are hosted on third-party websites, and no mention is made in the description of the asset, so we have a useless asset that we normally delete.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank_Dean View Post
    The issue of routes and sessions with unknown dependencies is difficult to solve.

    There are some authors who do not agree with the policy of N3V with the "ownership and use in payment routes" of assets hosted in the DLS and that is why they have their own websites with their assets that are not in the DLS, it is understandable and respectable.

    What I do not understand and it irritates me is that scenery and track objects, locomotives, wagons, industries, building housed in the DLS, and not having all its dependencies and these are hosted on third-party websites, and no mention is made in the description of the asset, so we have a useless asset that we normally delete.

    For the UK many routes contain assets that are part of S&C. If you are downloading a route made by one of the trainz-carriage group then normally it gets checked / beta tested before being uploaded. Having said that many of them will load fine on one system but not another. Some assets contain textures that are not licensed for payware so cannot be uploaded to the DLS. paulsw2 negotiated some payware that he uses in one route to be made available on jatws.org. payware and DLS don't mix. Then you get the issue that TS19 does not contain all the assets in TANE. So which do you build for? Remembering it can take a year or two to build a route. Again one route I was involved in ran fine in TANE but not in TS19 until a service pack came out. Then it ran fine.

    To build a route with only DLS assets is hard. You need a separate stand alone installation with only DLS content and nothing else and which version / service pack are you going to select to use? at which point in time as content gets repaired?

    As you say the delete button is available.

    Cheerio John

  9. #9
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    How I avoid or try to avoid such issues.

    Make sure you have Uploaded shown on the Manage Content Column headers, if there is an upload date showing then it is on the DLS be it N3V payware or user created, no date showing then it is not on the DLS.

    Items uploaded to the DLS without all their dependencies should result in an email to the creator requesting the missing dependencies are uploaded, check spam folders and unless it's a route will probably get shoved onto the Content Repair Groups faulty list for repair, which obviously can't be fixed in many cases.
    Malc


  10. #10
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    There in a route which is about to go up for TS19. Unfortunately it uses some assets that are available in TANE are not yet available in TS19 otherwise everything is available.

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks John

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnwhelan View Post
    There in a route which is about to go up for TS19. Unfortunately it uses some assets that are available in TANE are not yet available in TS19 otherwise everything is available.

    Your thoughts?

    Thanks John
    There is a download in Content Store for TANE builtins not in TRS19.
    Malc


  12. #12
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    My thoughts? Since giving up and going and collecting souvenir teaspoons instead isn't really a viable option I'm going to take the approach of stating which build number of Trainz was used to create the asset/layout I'm uploading was created in and guaranteeing that it will work in that build with all dependencies available. Should anyone load what I've made into another build version then they are on their own if it doesn't work.

    Trying to keep up with the present madness with so many build versions pouring out of N3V in such a short space of time and with assets being constantly broken by every 'update' or turned into payware or built-in assets is not a game that I want to play anymore.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  13. #13
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    All TRS19 versions are the same build number at present, the differences are in what your permissions are based on, if Regional, Standard or Plus and if gold or silver added which where the content issue occurs.

    Most of the Settle and Carlisle assets excluding rolling stock and locos is on the DLS so not so much of a problem for the UK routes. Compare with DTG where virtually every free Route requires purchasing one two or even three Payware routes.
    Payware Builtins that are not actually payware if they have been updated by whoever should now all be going on the DLS as well to alleviate the missing problem. Exception to that would be items that are now on the faulty Asset list for repair and no longer listed in Manage Content or Content Manager for legacy versions of Trainz. Even if something says location not known, it is worth trying right click, download this version, often it works and often it's a stupid error. Also worth listing asset versions, may actually find a newer one, see comments about gaps in versions below or there may be a new version with a different kuid that has obsoleted the one you are looking for.

    Main problems I have come across with missing things is often they are not missing and there is a newer version which for some reason doesn't get picked up in Manage Content, mostly because there are gaps in the update versions, such as say 1,2,5 with 3 and 4 never having been uploaded to the DLS.
    Another problem is Manage Content not recognising a higher version that it's downloaded as a dependency and installed but complaining that the old version is missing, fixed by downloading the old version running a DBR and then deleting it again as the new version has now been found and the old one is no longer missing / required.
    Malc


  14. #14
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    Thanks for the explanation Malc, but you have to admit that it's not exactly the best situation. You and I might have the experience with Trainz to fix things when they go wrong, but newcomers to Trainz must end up being completely bewildered by it all and I'm certain a lot of them just give up.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  15. #15
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    For location unknown - try right click download this version, often works for items hidden on the repair list, also and this is bizarre, try right click delete which actually deletes the unknown entry and suddenly it's no longer missing, so why wa it missing in the first place, all very strange!
    For missing dependency where there is actually a newer one present that was downloaded when installing the Dependant that is being ignored, right click, show asset versions, highlight the previous "missing" one and right click download this version if it's there, after installing the old version Manage Content now decides to now recognise the new version and you can delete the old version...... It's black magic.

    Patience Annie, N3V have undertaken to get all the items that were DLS and now updated for payware back on the DLS.
    Malc


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