Trainz is not realistic.

Mike,

This is what I've done with many routes. Recently I rebuilt what I call the Great Northern Railway. I combined Jointed Rail's Legend of the BN 1 and 2 with the Eagle River, White Shore and the Dry Brook and Esopus. This gives me a combination of through freight and passenger service and extensive branch line operations. There is now a second branch added from what I call Keane Jct. that runs off the mainline to Keane which allows for some other freight and tourist passenger service from the mainline instead of via the Beaver Cove end of the line.

With the long mainline, the AI runs take about 1 hr., 45 min. to run the length of the route in either direction. There are various passing sidings to allow for meets along the way. The branch lines are serviced by me as I drive along switching industries at the end-points, or running tourist trains. This operation can take an hour or more as the branch line is quite slow even though the route is shorter. The operation overall can run for many hours, or basically until I get tired of it as is and I then see something to fiddle with or add in something else along the route.

I agree that even though the program has its faults and bugs, there are many virtues to it as well such as this. It was this reason that I got Trainz in the first place. I had found MSTS to be cumbersome to build routes for and was tired of being stuck in a single locomotive and not able to move about as we do.

Fantastic route on the DLS, Cornish Railways (modern era). Puts most of the payware routes in Trainz to shame.

But my really big beef is that Trainz lacks any quality UK loco's and rolling stock to run on it.

It needs a UK developer like JR is to the US scene. The UK payware that is available for Trainz, is very poor.

Usually loco's without custom sounds and cabviews. I would quite happily pay for complete quality models, as per TS20xx.

Something like CR, deserves a realistic driving experience. Looking at all the hard work that went into creating it.

Mike.

lovetrainzloathen3v said:

Fantastic route on the DLS, Cornish Railways (modern era). Puts most of the payware routes in Trainz to shame.

But my really big beef is that Trainz lacks any quality UK loco's and rolling stock to run on it.

It needs a UK developer like JR is to the US scene. The UK payware that is available for Trainz, is very poor.

Usually loco's without custom sounds and cabviews. I would quite happily pay for complete quality models, as per TS20xx.

Something like CR, deserves a realistic driving experience. Looking at all the hard work that went into creating it.

Mike.

Click to expand...

What UK locos are you looking for, presumably diesels and electrics as there are plenty of UK steam freeware available.

Ken

Generally yes - I agree with you that the driving experience in DtG’s offering probably is superior.

Consider, though, that for many of us the driving experience is not the most important part. It’s the freedom to build, create, modify your own stuff

I think some of the reason posts like this occur is that the two products are marketed similarly, despite having what are actually very different fanbases and functionality.

If you’re just a casual user who wants to just “drive a train” once in a while with no hassle or setup I don’t doubt that TS/TSW is the superior product!

for me, though, and I think I speak for many of us here, Trainz is a HOBBY. It’s something that we spend a lot of time with, tweaking and editing, and I know I’m the type of person who, if I didn’t have Trainz, would be filling my basement with pricey HO Scale track!

I think that should about wrap this Thread up to be quite honest given the bulk of the arguement here was basically that the sound quality isnt up to scratch in comparison to other sims out there. Im sure your point is valid in some respects, but to call TS2019 unrealistic because of sound quality its a bit well out there so to speak and I suppose even abit uncalled-for really. Anyway thats my opinion on this matter, main point here is not sure all this was entirely necessary all because of sound quality.

Regards, RailSimulator

Yes, trainz isn't as realistic looking as some simulators, but like TS xx has barely any new models, its all reused. Like their new route the Hanover sub, i live really close to it and they just used the Horseshoe curve houses and spammed them all over the place. I digress as this isnt the TS forums or trainsim.com. I think trainz is better because of the asset variety. DTG is fair but i still am a trainzer. Trainz and MSTS brought me into the hobby to be honest, there were the trips to strasburger but i never really sat down to do anything with it. MSTS went but trainz stayed. I have 500 play hours on TS xx, and 6,500 on TANE (i dont even know for 12). Trainz just holds a cool spot in my heart so i stay with it and i think many can relate. Some may not and if they dont thats fine, i do find it ironic Ukko has 4 of the games but thinks they are horrible.

I started with DTG trains many years ago after being burned with a double purchase of early trainz. Their goofy subdividing of the core product into layers of technical and regional products was confusing, and still is. Anyhow I had several years of good fun with DTG making modifications to things as needed. Then Sir Paul became obsessed with control so his financial picture was more acceptable to investors. I became stuck in a no development DTG world as flexibility was sacrificed for more control. DTG truly became a game and I strongly dislike games.

Trainz is frustrating at times but, thanks to the breadth of experience in the community, very few issues cannot be solved in short order. As an example I was having a terrible time with assets either disappearing or being shown as bad. Usually, on many mornings the route was a sea of red and the Content Manager showed a database disaster. Thanks to the Forum, and their patience, I was shown that Obsolete assets (not locked) were at fault. I now daily scan for them before starting the days Trainzing. I have had NO gross/massive failures, that were all too often in the past. That experience would be almost impossible to have with DTG. Scanning their forum shows little of the technical skills and interest exhibited by the customers of N3V.

The database is the backbone of the products. It is the forum that is the glue, and the strongest element of the N3V product.

RailSimulator said:

I think that should about wrap this Thread up to be quite honest given the bulk of the arguement here was basically that the sound quality isnt up to scratch in comparison to other sims out there. Im sure your point is valid in some respects, but to call TS2019 unrealistic because of sound quality its a bit well out there so to speak and I suppose even abit uncalled-for really. Anyway thats my opinion on this matter, main point here is not sure all this was entirely necessary all because of sound quality.

Regards, RailSimulator

Click to expand...

N3V has stated in the past that they are working on revamping the sound engine in the program. The issue they face, like many small companies, is lack of resources to tackle that too as well as improving other areas of their products as well.

They were looking for people to assist them in this area and if you interested, since you appear to know a lot more on how trains are supposed to sound, then contact them and volunteer your efforts.

KenGreen said:

What UK locos are you looking for, presumably diesels and electrics as there are plenty of UK steam freeware available.

Ken

Click to expand...

There are also a few freeware diesels and lecky's, Ken.

But none have proper cabs and sounds.

Game needs better quality payware, as per JR for the US market.

Mike.

lovetrainzloathen3v said:

There are also a few freeware diesels and lecky's, Ken.

But none have proper cabs and sounds.

Game needs better quality payware, as per JR for the US market.

Mike.

Click to expand...

So you are interested in modern rolling stock and locomotives and you wish to pay for them? Interesting unfortunately the payware market for the UK is not that large. A couple of payware content creators have found that the cost of hiring someone to build content and the number of people willing to pay means that the sums do not add up. The US is a different market, more customers and their average disposable income is probably greater than the UK trainzer.

If I think of content by someone such as evertrainz I think the quality of freeware can be very high and as a content creator comments such as "But my really big beef is that Trainz lacks any quality UK loco's and rolling stock to run on it." will probably not encourage content creators to create content.

Cheerio John

The reason we don't see much UK content - free or payware - is because DTG has sucked all of it away to their side. Being a UK based company naturally their crew created more UK routes and content to begin with 2009. N3V might have had a shot if they pursued newer talents for a handful of UK routes and stock around the same time (nothing after SnC afaik?). This naturally gave content creators at the time more incentive to lean towards TS due to a more detailed to-standards selection of routes to run their potential payware on - Michael Whiteley springs to mind. Whereas Trainz chuffered on with the same Class 37 from TRS2004, and still does to this day.

I'm not saying it's impossible, quite doable with some planning really. But if N3V really wants to bolster their UK community there needs to more than a few concerted steps in the right direction. What they are doing with their new content creators seems to be a part of it, but not the full story if I'm being honest.
The Class 47, MK1s and MK2s, and HST will look lovely no doubt. But will it sound good? Will it drive properly? We need TPWS; DVD; GSM-R and OTM-R might seem like gimmicks that don't affect much, but these gimmicks make people step back and admire how much thought and care was put into perfecting the stock - important for payware. Which tends to be more than half the work of a solid project. A few drivers manuals might need to be consulted; a special sound-recording trip to the UK to finally bin the old default 2004 sounds (is it a Sulzer? is it an EE? why not both? ) It needs to be a two-way street where N3V also trundles along churning out content here and there, instead of expecting the community to do all the work. Especially when DTG has done their fair share of UK content in order to quickly build up a UK community and suck away all the UK creators like a vacuum close to a decade ago already.

The US community seems to be thriving particularly under JR taking advantage of newer features and materials. We can see a divide in opinion among the two sides of "the pond".

JCitron said:

They were looking for people to assist them in this area and if you interested, since you appear to know a lot more on how trains are supposed to sound, then contact them and volunteer your efforts.

Click to expand...

This is interesting. Although I'm only a college student I might find time to chip in here and there. Although I think FTTB Tony mentioned that their focus would be on physics?

ukko_pekka said:

If you are looking for a realistic train simulator, Trainz is not for you. The only realistic thing in TRS2019 is the graphics. But what is not realistic in this simulator? The cabins doesn't have noise filters. It gives a very unrealistic and annoying feeling, like there are no glasses on the windows. The second major problem is the sounds of the electric trains. They aren't realistic. Compare them into TS20xx or TSW. If you are looking for a realistic simulator, try TS20xx, and if realistic graphics are more important than long routes or world editor, try TSW. Trainz is more like a model simulator than driving simulator, like Transport Fever 2.

Click to expand...

This is the reason why many of us like Trainz. It's customization is it's main selling feature.

Personally, the thing that sells me on Trainz is the DC mode of operation and the easy paths to create your own routes and content. I drive trains on Amtrak for a living so the idea of doing what I do everyday for a living is not appealing. It's like a huge model railroad layout only in a virtual environment where the expanse of the land and scenery is your only limitation for the routes you make.

Railworks is a good game but it's a huge pain to cope with the fussy controls sometimes and the graphics and the repeated stalling of my 57xx on hills is a real turnoff for me. I really only have it to own content that Trainz doesn't have an run the scenarios once in a while.

Bottom line, if you are looking for graphics and realistic gameplay then you are right - Trainz isn't for you. But if you prefer such things then the question becomes.. what are you really doing on the Trainz forums to begin with? :hehe:

EverTrainz said:

This is interesting. Although I'm only a college student I might find time to chip in here and there. Although I think FTTB Tony mentioned that their focus would be on physics?

Click to expand...

It was awhile ago when I was part of the Trainz Dev team, but you know things might have changed since then. This doesn't mean that stuff doesn't get forgotten and most likely was put off to the side due to limited resources. You might want to contact N3V anyway and find out. It doesn't hurt to ask.

Yes, it's true.

Trainz is not realistic

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...E0-partir-de-cartes-IGN&p=1847277#post1847277

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?160336-Cr%E9ation-du-d%E9cor-%E0-partir-de-cartes-IGN&p=1847384#post1847384

All the thread is not realistic :hehe:

https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?160336-Cr%E9ation-du-d%E9cor-%E0-partir-de-cartes-IGN

Regards

Hey Manual - and here I thought it was all very realistic (or rather an interpretation of reality)! LOL!
Ahh! That's it, an interpretation of something in the real world - does this make me a realist?

English Language Learners Definition of realist. : a person who understands what is real and possible in a particular situation : a person who accepts and deals with things as they really are. : an artist or writer who shows or describes people and things as they are in real life.
i leave it to all the Trainz realists out there to decide.

Hello Butler.

I'm a realistic man into a virtual world or maybe a virtual man into a real world (realistically speaking).

Muy best wishes.

I have to agree that while the route building side of Trainz can be very fulfilling, when it comes to driving trains the frustrations are evident for all to see. Let's start with the basics - you can't even easily set up a timetabled run for the player train, there is no scenario or activity editor per se. What main line railway in this day and age has the driver setting the route as they go, at a complex junction stopping to work out which points you need to throw? Even Run 8 gives you a despatcher board to control the powered points. TSW2 routes come with a timetable reflecting the whole day. You can step on and off the trains in proper first person mode, you can choose to drive or travel passenger and, while there are shortcomings, you feel part of a living, breathing network.

The poor cabs and sounds of the UK rolling stock has been mentioned but this extends to the European stuff too. Lost count of the number of times I've abandoned German or Swiss project after downloading locos to find they alias an old British cab (complete with AWS sunflower) and/or sounds from 2001. Might work for a model railway effort (barely) but not for driving a prototype run. The only decent Euro(ish) stuff are the Russian and Eastern European items which are more detailed and up to date looking. Many cabs have that awful opaque effect which bleaches out the exterior view something horrible.

In terms of buying DLC, I recently splashed out on items for Train Sim World 2, DTG's "heritage" TS and Run 8, but other than renewing my FCT recently I can't see me buying anything for Trainz while the driving experience remains so lacklustre.

I'm waiting to see what's capable with this physics interface, and hopefully the sound interface will allow a large number of input channels. Post processing in-game would be nice for these (affected by factors set by the player) but that wouldn't offer much if we can handle the reverb, delay, EQ, etc. out of the sim itself (plugin). What would really be nice, is if N3V could gather new groups of content creators to specialize in one region each, and build a set of highly-detailed routes for the "core four" countries, and highly detailed stock - think TSW. Important here would be to cull backwards compatibility a bit, while using this as leverage to advance the game engine more than what has been done before. This will allow the original Trainz to continue as a sandbox model railway-type game while introducing a newer, operation oriented simulator that might or might not rival TSW.

Needs better physics and better sound at the minimum for that. Probably only worth N3V's efforts if they can introduce all that advanced stuff (physics, sound) to get Trainz up-to-date relative to the other sims out there. Then it stands a shot at satisfying the "simulator" aspect of it.

This will allow the original Trainz to continue as a sandbox model railway-type game while introducing a newer, operation oriented simulator that might or might not rival TSW.

Click to expand...

Was thinking along those lines myself. A separate product that allows "heritage" Trainz to run as a second stream product for the route building therapy and those who can't let go of their half broken, hopelessly outdated UTC era stuff. the biggest challenge as I see it and already referenced earlier in the thread, is that N3V are going to need some mighty incentives to attract the development talent needed to craft the worlds, assets and trains/rolling stock to make that happen.

Warts notwithstanding, DTG have hit a massively successful business market with their TSW2 concept, particularly with the console compatibility. In some ways it is the western equivalent of Densha de Go, for the modern era.