Trainz Model Railroad 2

Open post to N3V

Concerning the mentioned TCCP program (in original post) for which I have participated in as a tester. TCCP suffers from a lack of promotion and a lack of information for the testers. When I receive a notice that a new item can be "claimed" for testing I go to the website and view, but I am largely given no information. The description for the item to be tested simply says something like "large route with sessions" or "small route with sessions." I have "claimed" (tested) items that consisted of route only, route with 2 sessions, a single locomotive, and most recently a route with 35 SESSIONS! Yes, 35 sessions. Only after I "claimed" the item and downloaded did I find out it had 35 sessions! 35 sessions in 14 day? (the test period) - There is also no information about the type of route/sessions such as Region or whether prototypical or fictional or model railroad.

In short: There is simply not enough info available for the tester to intelligently select the routes/sessions they would like to test.

When I view the testing list in order to "claim" an item I have no way of knowing if the item is Model Railroad or not. The "Type" field (description) is approximately 25 characters and say typically "Large Route with sessions."

I am quickly losing my interest in beta testing as I would like to know what it is I'd be testing. I don't want to test a large route with 35 sessions in two weeks.

Take a look at the TCCP forum. Almost no posts. No comments by N3V. Very little promotion for the program.

The information that is on offer for each package once claimed is derived from what the package owner submits. This is in the form of the package description and any test plan questions that have been created specifically for the testers to follow. There is also a list of feature kuids which will primarily be routes, sessions and trains. TCCP is still in beta so any suggestions you might have to help advanced the system please submit to contentcreators@n3vgames.com.
 
To some of the other "why TMR2" posts.

We have lots of people who prefer model routes and creating a product for them will generate sales which is the goal of any business. It won't detract from other products we're developing but rather will support further development. Stay tuned for some of the "major core feature developments" which will be coming in 2021.
 
I fully agree that n3v needs to generate revenue. I just didn't see the need for TMR2 as a product going forward. I will be very interested to learn what these new core features will be. Trainz needs to be brought up to date in its graphical capabilities. Like Vern, if I want to drive a Train I go to other programs. Creating routes in these is either not possible, or too complex. As someone who is primarily interested in route creation, I would like to see an update to Surveyor. (Although I believe that DEM data and processing can be left to third party developers, it may be worth seeing how other programs tackle the generation of fictional terrain).

Mike
 
The information that is on offer for each package once claimed is derived from what the package owner submits. This is in the form of the package description and any test plan questions that have been created specifically for the testers to follow. There is also a list of feature kuids which will primarily be routes, sessions and trains. TCCP is still in beta so any suggestions you might have to help advanced the system please submit to contentcreators@n3vgames.com.

On the email I receive and on the system itself (when I login to my panel) all I see for a description is as follows. I have tested 12 items. Here is the info:
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Large Route with no Session"
"Medium Route + Sessions"
"Locomotives + Sessions"
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"

That is all the info I have (plus item "name") to choose whether I want to "claim" an item to test. If the creators are supplying info and descriptions it is certainly not being passed on through the system. The items above look like they are coming from "selector" drop down menu as they are all exactly the same wording. There is no actual description passed on to the tester at all.

Yes, there is a kuid list. But what does a kuid number tell me? Not a lot. Route can be large or small (what is "large"?) and sessions can run from minutes to hours.

Here's a link to screenshot. The name of the route is blanked out (white square) as I'm not sure if I'm supposed to share that info or not.
http://www.jump55.com/beta_prog.jpg

To be perfectly clear. This has nothing to do with the content creators. This is simply about a system that is broken and which doesn't produce very good results for anyone.
 
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On the email I receive and on the system itself (when I login to my panel) all I see for a description is as follows. I have tested 12 items. Here is the info:
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Large Route with no Session"
"Medium Route + Sessions"
"Locomotives + Sessions"
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Large Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"
"Small Route + Sessions"

That is all the info ...

Happy to talk further with you on this via email (contentcreators@n3vgames.com) or TCCP discord channel to help make TCCP more intuitive for testers.
 
I fully agree that n3v needs to generate revenue. I just didn't see the need for TMR2 as a product going forward. I will be very interested to learn what these new core features will be. Trainz needs to be brought up to date in its graphical capabilities. Like Vern, if I want to drive a Train I go to other programs. Creating routes in these is either not possible, or too complex. As someone who is primarily interested in route creation, I would like to see an update to Surveyor. (Although I believe that DEM data and processing can be left to third party developers, it may be worth seeing how other programs tackle the generation of fictional terrain).

Mike

Going from the fact that TMR17 was TANE with a customized content set, I would expect TMR 2 to be whatever version of Trainz is current with a customized content set. No new features just tailored to a different user base.

If you want something changed in Surveyor then you should be more specific. Multiplayer Surveyor is a major update that will soon be rolled out.

William
 
My comments regarding graphics and Surveyor were intended to refer hopes for the new to be announced core features for 2021, not TMR2. This is not the right thread to discuss detailed changes to the program. I must confess that Multiplayer Surveyor as such, holds no interest for me. Is there anywhere I can read a list of the new features? I assume however that if I wish to download anything created using it, I will need to buy the appropriate package.


Mike
 
Happy to talk further with you on this via email (contentcreators@n3vgames.com) or TCCP discord channel to help make TCCP more intuitive for testers.

Hello, thank you. I wish to make one more post on this subject here (to be fair to N3V) since my comment above says that there is no info in the email. That is wrong. Creators "description" is in the email but my mail app in conjunction with spam/phishing software was killing it. I turned that off and then in Apple mail the description shows as raw html code. I looked at the same email in webmail (google mail) and most of the description was fine though some of the html tags were still there. Note that as far as I know I have no other email issues and I receive hundreds per day. So there may be an issue with whatever tool is used to build and send the automated emails out to testers.

Evidently my security software thought the Description html harmful code.

So, in short, there is a description in the email (which I wasn't seeing) but there is no description on the actual TCCP login and "claim" screen other than what my pic showed.

Any further comment will be directed to the email provided. Again, thank you for the invite. I hope "TMR2" turns out great! Best.
 
N3V stopped announcing features in unfinished products after the TANE release. But Trainz Plus subscribers are not under an NDA so any of them could provide a list of what they are seeing in it. Approach Medium has done some videos showing Multiplayer Surveyor on his YouTube channel.

William
 
and I wonder if anyone could send a Northlandz map to them (although that's beyond the simple curtainsided tables and plasterboards, that layout is in a 2 story building)
 
Can we have an update on this project please... Thank you in advance.

Are you referring to a TMR2? I've only been around for 2.5 years but isn't TMR simply "Trainz" with some Model Railroad routes packaged with it. ie: There is no special "TMR" release of the app. Frankly, I've never understood just what TMR is (was.)

Wouldn't TMR2 simply be TRS19 (SP2) with model railroad routes packaged with it? Similar to what is now "Regional" versions which is just TRS19 with the appropriate regional routes. Or am I completely wrong here?
 
Are you referring to a TMR2? I've only been around for 2.5 years but isn't TMR simply "Trainz" with some Model Railroad routes packaged with it. ie: There is no special "TMR" release of the app. Frankly, I've never understood just what TMR is (was.)

Wouldn't TMR2 simply be TRS19 (SP2) with model railroad routes packaged with it? Similar to what is now "Regional" versions which is just TRS19 with the appropriate regional routes. Or am I completely wrong here?

Yes... TMR, or Trainz Model Railroad 2017 was released in 2015 as an anniversary special for Trainz 15th year. Trainz was initially conceived as a model railroad simulator that a modeler could use to design and build their model railroads in. Auran even ran a TV advertisement in around Christmas 2002 on that, which caught the eye of many early adopters. Narrow Gauge (Peter Pardue Matthews) remembers this very well and has told us about it a few times. It was this that got him into the program.

TMR is essentially TANE SP1a. This version was TANE with a special interface, meaning menus, but in all other aspects it's TANE including Surveyor and Driver. The content sold with the package was limited to Model-railroad themed, but it's regular Trainz content, but the version was behind TANE in other aspects because it wasn't updated. The routes were eventually transferred over to TANE Deluxe and were included in that version and have been included in TRS2019 as well.

TMR2 is a continuation of this limited-content version, but now has the features that are found in TRS2019. It'll be interesting to see what comes of this. The original content, meaning those routes and that version were quite nice when it came out.
 
Thanks for the info John. I now understand TMR but don't understand your "this limited-content version" comment. Will there be Model routes ONLY for TMR2? Will they be available for Gold members? I guess I don't get the point. Why not just a bundle of 19 SP2 and selected Model routes? (I know.. Marketing/Sales) :)
 
Thanks for the info John. I now understand TMR but don't understand your "this limited-content version" comment. Will there be Model routes ONLY for TMR2? Will they be available for Gold members? I guess I don't get the point. Why not just a bundle of 19 SP2 and selected Model routes? (I know.. Marketing/Sales) :)

At the time it was a limited-content, but Trainz being Trainz we can download regular Trainz content into that version just the same. That version also came with routes made specifically for TMR2017, but were subsequently put into regular TANE Deluxe and later TRS2019.

If this holds true for the next version, things will be as I said, but who knows. I agree Sales and Marketing... having lived through how many ways to skin a cat, meaning how many ways to sell the same thing with different versions was par for the course growing up and working as a typesetter putting ads together.
 
The information that is on offer for each package once claimed is derived from what the package owner submits. This is in the form of the package description and any test plan questions that have been created specifically for the testers to follow. There is also a list of feature kuids which will primarily be routes, sessions and trains. TCCP is still in beta so any suggestions you might have to help advanced the system please submit to contentcreators@n3vgames.com.

Then perhaps what needs to happen is the route being sent back to the creator and them being told to make a decent job of the package description before it will be considered for the TCCP program. We see enough of poor descriptions or no descriptions at all with what gets uploaded to the DLS so perhaps it's time N3V started to draw a line in the sand about what gets submitted to them through the TCCP program so their beta testers get a decent shake of the stick and some respect for what they do.

Apologies for my late comment on this subject, but I've been a lot more sleepy lately.
 
Then perhaps what needs to happen is the route being sent back to the creator and them being told to make a decent job of the package description before it will be considered for the TCCP program. We see enough of poor descriptions or no descriptions at all with what gets uploaded to the DLS so perhaps it's time N3V started to draw a line in the sand about what gets submitted to them through the TCCP program so their beta testers get a decent shake of the stick and some respect for what they do.

Apologies for my late comment on this subject, but I've been a lot more sleepy lately.

This is definitely something we are working with creators on for final release (including preview pass). In fact, with the TCCP system it is a requirement for creators to fill most of this information our during the submission/creation process.

That said, if a creator intentionally fills information out the 'info' (how the 'description' is shown in the beta test menu) poorly (such as essentially making it blank), then this should be reported by beta testers as well, but will normally also be picked up on by us when we do internal reviews of the content.

It must be noted that the idea of TCCP is to give as much control to the creator as possible; this does mean that the system is essentially automated up to the final review/release process, and as such our team aren't actively checking every beta release before this; that is the idea of the beta tester system.

If creators want more beta testers, then alerting the community to beta releases is generally a good idea :) The forums, the Trainz Discord, and other methods can be used for this.

Regards
 
I got in on TMR2017, out of curiosity and a wish to help in some small way to keep this franchise alive to do the things I enjoy I Trainz.

As I recently rediscovered, what drives my train is building, routes and objects as I need them. Driving is generally limited to testing what I built. That being said, in Trainz, with its almost limitless space to build, limitations like dighole sizes and tunnel placements can result in a minor displacement from where the prototype is located and the limits of terrain displacement are generally lost in the overall look and feel of a map.

However, in the limited space that a model layout has, with distances compressed and objects almost on top of each other, these issues became large and for me very frustrating.

For starters, since model layouts are very small compared to "normal" maps, the grid size need to be reduced to a much smaller value. This alone would make TMR a better product for model layouts and not suitable for full sized maps.

Objects in TMR need to have very limited underground parts. Show wire frame and see how many objects have very deep roots. This is fine in the generally 2D world that is most routes but a model layout often has multiple levels. Seeing a forest of underground parts is bad enough. When you look up, the ground above is also transparent so you see the bottom (for those objects that have one) of many things.

This alone has turned me away from TMR. If the next iteration is more of the same, I doubt I'll be getting on that train. Make TMR a really model layout pro and I might get onboard.
 
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