CPU, GPU, TRS19: What is overkill?

Cayden

Trainz PC, iPad and Mac
I am a Mac user and will continue to use the Mac for content creation and my other computing needs. I am looking at buying a PC computer to solely run Trainz 2019.

Given the advance is computer components what is required to run all of the features of Trainz 2019 and what is overkill?

Processor (CPU)

Intel processors available include:
Intel i5 (1035g1, 2400S, 3350, 3470, 3470S, 4570, 457T, 4590, 4670T, 6400, 6500, 8265U, 9400, 9400F, 9500, 10210U, 10400F)
Intel i7 (3770, 4765T, 6700, 8700, 8809G, 9700, 10510U, 10700, 10700F, 10700K, 10700KF)
Intel i9 (9900K, 10900K)

It is my understanding that higher end processors may not be necessary and need liquid cooling that add to the expense.

Graphics Card (GPU)

Geforce GT 710
Geforce GTX 1650
Geforce GTX 1650 Super
Geforce GTX 1660 Super
Geforce GTX 1660 Ti
Geforce RTX 2600
Geforce RTX 2600 Super
Geforce RTX 2700 Super
Geforce RTX 2080
Geforce RTX 2080 Super
Geforce RTX 2080 Ti

My understanding is that to access Clutter Effect and TurfFX one needs a NIVIDIA Geforce card, but which one?

Memory:

16 GB
32 GB
64 GB

Most pre-built configurations seem to come with 16 GB. Is more necessary if one is only going to run Trainz 2019?

Hard Drive:

1TB SSD
512 GB SSD + 1 TB

Thinking 1 TB SSD would be more than enough.


The computer I am thinking of getting is an MSI AEGIS RS 10SD-014US

Processor (CPU):
Intel® Core™ i7-10700KF, Octa Core processor 3.8GHz
w/ 5.1GHz Turbo Boost, 16MB SmartCache

Memory:
16GB DDR4-3000 (2x8GB)


Graphics Card (GPU):
NVIDIA® GeForce® RTX 2070 SUPER w/ 8GB GDDR6 VRAM
1TB SSD

Windows® 10 Home
Chip Set: Intel® Z490
Ethernet: 1x RJ45 Realtek RTL8125B 2.5GbE
Wireless LAN: Intel® Wi-Fi 6 802.11ax AX200 (2x2)
Bluetooth: v5.1

This may be overkill even considering some leeway in the advance of Trainz but I can get this in town as a pre-built and have service locally available service.

Cayden
 
Basically you want a decent video card and enough computer to support it.

https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/gpu_list.php my basic recommendation would be something over a score of 10,000. My own card is a 2070 so I'd say your choice is spot on and not beyond what Trainz can use.

The other thing to think about is getting the data from the hard drive into the CPU. This has always been a problem. The M.2 SSDs are considerably faster getting stuff on and off them.

More realistically take a look at dell.ca for a G5 with a 2070 super and see how the price compares. Dell are reliable. I'd go with the 32 gig model, the 16 gig is single channel and the 32 gig has a nice set of drives.
1TB M.2 PCIe SSD + 2TB SATA 7200 RPM
that M.2 drive will take some beating besides it has 5 cents off at this precise moment.

Cheerio John
 
Personally I'm awaiting the Nvidia 3070, which is due out at the end of the Oct 2020 and seems to offer significant processing increase above the 2070 for about the same price.

Mind, prices can change. The 3070 might become more expensive; the 2070 less expensive. On the other hand again, Nvidia have a history of discontinuing older models to help promote sales of the new ones.........

If you drive a 4K screen, you might want an even larger ability in the GPU. Get a 3090 and you could even drive an 8K screen! (Or so goes the rumour). But smaller screen resolutions can make do with a bit less GPU power. Still, best to give them plenty of power so you're not always heating up your PC when Trainz is running. :)

******
There's a case for buying more now to avoid buying "just a bit more" sooner rather than later. My own Windows PC is approaching 10 years old and still runs TRS19 detailed routes on a 2K screen without issue albeit at 30fps and not at ultra-everything settings in Trainz. It was high spec 10 years ago but not that high. It's the GPU that matters most to Trainz .... although SSD-hosted content certainly speeds up loading a significant amount compared with a spinning disc.

Lataxe
 
The MSI AEGIS RS 10SD-014US has almost the same spec as my recently upgraded self-build.
My ASUS Rog Strix 2070 Super CPU was at a discounted price because of the impending 3 series cards.
I can run all settings at max without a problem. I keep Post Processing low though, I don't like the bling effect!
Case cooling is something that hardly ever gets mentioned, that case is very similar to my Antec case but I have put 2 extra fans at the top.
I also recommend a GPU cooler...Hyper 212x which has a radiator and a fan, with the ability to add an extra fan.
I dont want any form of liquid cooling in my PC, if (when) they leak, liquid and electricity are not compatible!

If you can afford a higher spec then go for it, but for now, I am very satisfied with what I have.
 
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Re. liquid cooling for the CPU - I didn't realise I had this until fairly recently. It does keep things very nice and cool but I do hear things like this that make me concerned. Is it true that they also need topping up from time to time?

Paul
 
Re. liquid cooling for the CPU - I didn't realise I had this until fairly recently. It does keep things very nice and cool but I do hear things like this that make me concerned. Is it true that they also need topping up from time to time?

Paul

It depends on the model but I think you can probably assume it is a completely sealed unit.

Cheerio John
 
I asked a similar question here some time ago.

As I understand, Trainz 19 never uses more than 8 GB of RAM at a time, and tops out at somewhere around 4 GB of VRAM. However it does rely heavily on the CPU. Some report near-100% CPU usage on even big workstation-class Xeon CPU's. A far cry from my quad-core 7700K that just keeps chugging along.

Matt
 
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I asked a similar question here some time ago.

As I understand, Trainz 19 never uses more than 8 GB of RAM at a time, and tops out at somewhere around 4 GB of VRAM. However it does rely heavily on the CPU. Some report near-100% CPU usage on even big workstation-class Xeon CPU's. A far cry from my quad-core 7700K that just keeps chugging along.

Matt

On my system TS19 is showing 15% usage on the CPU using perfmon. It may depend on the content being used.

Cheerio John
 
When I updated my PC a bit over a year ago, the driver for me wasn't Trainz so much but running the tools to make PBR materials for Trainz. On my old I7 with a GTX780Ti GPU the rendering of sample PBR materials in Substance Painter was taking ages to populate on screen. Baking in Blender was also slow(ish) depending on what was being baked. So I opted for an I9 CPU and an RTX2080Ti GPU.

Substance Painter is now way faster and baking PBR materials in Blender now only takes a few seconds. Not sure I can say the same about Trainz. TS12, for when I am forced to use it, seems slower although maybe its just not meeting my expectations. TS19 always ran well on my old PC and not a whole lot different on my current machine. I usually have shadows off because they annoy me but most other settings are set higher than before.
 
When I updated my PC a bit over a year ago, the driver for me wasn't Trainz so much but running the tools to make PBR materials for Trainz. On my old I7 with a GTX780Ti GPU the rendering of sample PBR materials in Substance Painter was taking ages to populate on screen. Baking in Blender was also slow(ish) depending on what was being baked. So I opted for an I9 CPU and an RTX2080Ti GPU.

Substance Painter is now way faster and baking PBR materials in Blender now only takes a few seconds. Not sure I can say the same about Trainz. TS12, for when I am forced to use it, seems slower although maybe its just not meeting my expectations. TS19 always ran well on my old PC and not a whole lot different on my current machine. I usually have shadows off because they annoy me but most other settings are set higher than before.

With an i9 CPU and RTX 2080Ti GPU did you have to add any additional cooling?
 
Today I visited for the first time a local shop that build PC computers. I inquired about the GeForce graphic cards. With the new 30xx series coming out soon they said they could no longer get the RTX 2070 or 2080 cards. I could only get the RTX 2060. For more capability they suggested a Ryzen 3700X but, if I am correct, this could not run TurfFX or Clutter Effect. Is that assumption correct?

They suggested for the CPU an Intel i7 10700 and to cool it with a Noctua NH-14S. They also suggested, if I understood them correctly, additional fans to cool the GPU.

They asked if I was going to use overclocking. I don’t even know what that it is so I said no. I looked it up when I got home and understand it to be running the CPU and/or the GPU at a higher speed than they were designed to run. Is overclocking used to run TRS19? Wouldn’t one just buy a more capable system if it were needed?

Cayden
 
Today I visited for the first time a local shop that build PC computers. I inquired about the GeForce graphic cards. With the new 30xx series coming out soon they said they could no longer get the RTX 2070 or 2080 cards. I could only get the RTX 2060. For more capability they suggested a Ryzen 3700X but, if I am correct, this could not run TurfFX or Clutter Effect. Is that assumption correct?

They suggested for the CPU an Intel i7 10700 and to cool it with a Noctua NH-14S. They also suggested, if I understood them correctly, additional fans to cool the GPU.

They asked if I was going to use overclocking. I don’t even know what that it is so I said no. I looked it up when I got home and understand it to be running the CPU and/or the GPU at a higher speed than they were designed to run. Is overclocking used to run TRS19? Wouldn’t one just buy a more capable system if it were needed?

Cayden


Basically it is safer not to overclock. There are reasons why the clock speed in chosen and they normally fall in the area of reliability. Overclocked systems tend to have a shorter life. The basic problem is if you overclock you create more heat and getting rid of the heat is a major problem on most computers.

Cheerio John
 
they suggested a Ryzen 3700X but, if I am correct, this could not run TurfFX or Clutter Effect. Is that assumption correct?
Cayden

Wrong info, who is it that keeps publicising this fake news.
TurfFX works perfectly well with a Ryzen Processor, I have one no different to an Intel, have one of them as well also works on an AMD Phenom rig, it's actually only Mac users that can't use TurfFx because the OSX does not support directX which is required for TurfFX, nothing to do with the GPU or CPU but Apple's operating system. TurfFx works with CPUs from both AMD and Nvidia and and GPUs From Nvidia and AMD and Intel's builtin Graphics as well.

Clutter isn't anything to do with TurfFx its part of TRS19.

I have a first generation Ryzen 5 1600 6 cores 12 Threads with a GTX980TI that runs TRS19 within a few FPS of my Intel i7 6700K and GTX 1080TI, newer Ryzens are better in many cases than the equivalent Intel, both machines run TurfFx and clutter with no problem.

The Ryzen Rig is using the AMD Wraith stock Cooler which amazingly keeps it around the 55°C mark when running TRS19, I do have 5 Case fans though, quiet ones, The i7 needs a dirty great Air Cooler to keep it below 65°C also 5 Case fans, personally I wouldn't allow anything involving liquid anywhere near electronics, both have large cases and are properly cable managed, all helps to keep the heat down.
 
@pcas1986
Thanks Paul. If I understand correctly, an Intel i9 and even an Intel i7 need a cooling system yours being an EVGA liquid cooler.

@johnwhelan
Thanks John. I will not plan on overclocking.

@clam1952
Not sure where I read the “fake news”. Thanks for clearing that up, that is that directX is required for TurfFX and its functioning has nothing to do with the GPU or CPU.

I think I am getting closer to making a purchase. I am leaning towards getting one assembled locally. That way if/when I need service I have someone close to go to.

Cayden
 
...
Thanks Paul. If I understand correctly, an Intel i9 and even an Intel i7 need a cooling system yours being an EVGA liquid cooler.
...

My older PC, which I still have, has an I7 and that had a water cooled system that leaked and ran almost dry. No damage that I could detect. So I replaced it with a Cooler Master cooling system with large heat dissipating fins and a huge fan. I think Clam recommended it and I had no trouble with it whatsoever. However, I would go with whatever your shop recommends. If they are providing a warranty then it would be in there interest to recommend a suitable cooling system.

My I9-9920X is unlocked and therefore overclockable. But's that not something I would do. Serious gamers probably wouldn't care because if it broke then they would just go something new and faster.

I have a couple of M.2 SSDs, one for the O/S and a 1TB one for Trainz. I kept my 2TB HDD for older versions of Trainz and all my dev stuff. A fast HDD is OK for that.
 
I should add that the Ryzens weren't out when I bought my PC. I've had several AMD processors in the past that were fine in their day.

It was the RTX technology that attracted me to the Aorus GTX2080Ti.
 
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