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Thread: Trainz on ARM64

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigacooke View Post
    Microsoft and their propriety formats eh?
    Yes but openGL was held back by legacy demands from the Unix world. The standards process takes about five years normally to produce a new standard and the GPUs were evolving quite quickly at the time. The more you have to put in the standard the more you have to support. AMD did a very nice job of implementing directx in silicon and giving us much better performance at a lower price point and that is what Microsoft was after better price performance in the windows world.

    Today Word actually follows an ISO standard, well it's close, since they were involved in creating the standard, and you can tell it to follow the standard exactly.

    Cheerio John

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreeder View Post
    You can talk to me about how our Amiga computers were 20 years ahead
    Yeah, but that was thirty years ago

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigacooke View Post
    Yeah, but that was thirty years ago

    I still enjoy running Amiga software on my Amiga Forever emulator today.

    William

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreeder View Post
    You can talk to me about how our Amiga computers were 20 years ahead of the wankers at MS and Apple.

    William
    Acorns risc computers were excellent for their time, much much faster than the other companies had to offer, unfortunately their service was awful and the software was limited compared to the opposition.
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

  5. #50
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    So... after that, it would look like:

    1. Trainz will survive on ARM architecture (which is good, because I plan on upgrading my MacBook and getting an iMac Pro with ARM chips near Holiday 2022 - fun)
    2. Apple doesn't seem to care about Macs as much as before (which is dumb)
    3. Amiga computers seem to be good (even though I've never heard of those before - no offense)
    4. Trainz Mobile 3

    I bring up Trainz Mobile 3 because of the fact that you can run apps from both iOS and iPadOS on macOS with Big Sur onwards (I still can't update because I have no storage - or at least, very little - and it's mostly taken up by T:ANE). So, it may be that Trainz Mobile 3 will be the answer to my original question. I know it's not finished, and if an N3V employee can prove me wrong, then thank you - but will the Trainz Mobile series eventually become the answer to running Trainz on ARM - for Macs at least? Now that I think about it - maybe not as... Windows man... Windows... Many more people use that in comparison to Macs (like, a billion more lot more), so if ARM becomes popular there (which it may, as Apple has recently become a trendsetter, which is good and bad in many aspects), what will happen there? Welcome back to "more questions on this thread than there should and keeping this thread hydrated".

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRKing783 View Post
    So... after that, it would look like:
    3. Amiga computers seem to be good (even though I've never heard of those before - no offense)
    The Amiga brand has come and gone into a hobbyist niche.

  7. #52
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    SO, ARM Macs have finally come out... does anybody on the forums own one? If so, what's your experience with:

    TANE
    TS19 (if applicable)
    Trainz Mobile 2
    Trainz for Mac (if applicable)

    If you don't have any, or just one, that's fine too - simply put, how does Trainz run through Rosetta? And should N3V just make Trainz Mobile 3 the new Trainz for Mac, as iPad and iPhone apps can finally run on the machines (with no touchscreen - good job)?

  8. #53
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    WARNING: Current versions of Trainz run very poorly on the M1 chip.

    However, our planned Q1 2021 update will include Metal and support for the M1 ARM-based chip and that will run better than the current game on current gen Mac hardware. How much better will depend on how much we can optimise things.
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    WARNING: Current versions of Trainz run very poorly on the M1 chip.

    However, our planned Q1 2021 update will include Metal and support for the M1 ARM-based chip and that will run better than the current game on current gen Mac hardware. How much better will depend on how much we can optimise things.
    Thanks Tony, good to hear the Metal version will be available, er .... Soon

  10. #55
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    Huh. Honestly, even though the M1 chips (from what I've heard) are good... Rosetta can't be THAT good. But thanks for telling us Tony.

    My guess is that no external GPU is on the logic board itself, and eGPUs aren't even supported. (Apple didn't even make their own proprietary eGPU, or partner up with Blackmagic to do it... they probably should've because of the revenue - and they like money, but I'm not a $2 trillion USD electronics company, am I?)

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRKing783 View Post
    Huh. Honestly, even though the M1 chips (from what I've heard) are good... Rosetta can't be THAT good. But thanks for telling us Tony.

    My guess is that no external GPU is on the logic board itself, and eGPUs aren't even supported. (Apple didn't even make their own proprietary eGPU, or partner up with Blackmagic to do it... they probably should've because of the revenue - and they like money, but I'm not a $2 trillion USD electronics company, am I?)

    I've posted several articles on the mac mini m1 and the m1 gpu on the forum, , from memory , its about on a par with a gtx 1050 , not that great but adequate according to one guy who has bought one , as long as you run it on low settings. its about time NV3 improved trainz 's performance with metal, its been years ( very soon after TANE was first released ) since Tony promised a mac version that worked well using the technology
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by SRKing783 View Post
    Huh. Honestly, even though the M1 chips (from what I've heard) are good... Rosetta can't be THAT good. But thanks for telling us Tony.

    My guess is that no external GPU is on the logic board itself, and eGPUs aren't even supported. (Apple didn't even make their own proprietary eGPU, or partner up with Blackmagic to do it... they probably should've because of the revenue - and they like money, but I'm not a $2 trillion USD electronics company, am I?)
    I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that there is nothing in the new Apple silicon that is supporting OpenGL, therefore anything that relies on OpenGL isn't going to be that clever.

    It's my experience that the OpenGL macOS version of Trainz was always inferior in performance to the Windows equivalent using DirectX on the same hardware.

    Hopefully, N3V will be producing universal binaries that won't need to use Rosetta at all.

  13. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by amigacooke View Post
    I'm going to stick my neck out and suggest that there is nothing in the new Apple silicon that is supporting OpenGL, therefore anything that relies on OpenGL isn't going to be that clever.

    It's my experience that the OpenGL macOS version of Trainz was always inferior in performance to the Windows equivalent using DirectX on the same hardware.

    Hopefully, N3V will be producing universal binaries that won't need to use Rosetta at all.
    well I use both the mac version and the PC version and I notice very little difference, except the PC version goes belly up a lot more .GTX 1660ti with 6gb on the PC and 8gb rx580 on the mac. the pc is probably more efficient , but i can use high setting on the mac on a 10 year old mac pro and it holds its own against the 2020 acer nitro, no doubt a top end desktop pc would do a lot better , but I can make complex routes on the mac with no problems. Its mostly the cruddy gpus that stop the app being of much use on more modern macs. The built in graphics were useless on the laptops and the mac mini, but the m1 gpu is a lot better from the reviews I've read .
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangavel View Post
    well I use both the mac version and the PC version and I notice very little difference, except the PC version goes belly up a lot more .GTX 1660ti with 6gb on the PC and 8gb rx580 on the mac. the pc is probably more efficient , but i can use high setting on the mac on a 10 year old mac pro and it holds its own against the 2020 acer nitro, no doubt a top end desktop pc would do a lot better , but I can make complex routes on the mac with no problems. Its mostly the cruddy gpus that stop the app being of much use on more modern macs. The built in graphics were useless on the laptops and the mac mini, but the m1 gpu is a lot better from the reviews I've read .
    I’m talking about a direct comparison on the same Mac using BootCamp. And it wasn’t only Trainz that Open GL versions underperformed against DirectX and Metal versions.

  15. #60
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    I see. So now that we have them, Trainz doesn't run well, but if TS21 comes over to macOS, I highly doubt it won't have an ARM version. And a GTX 1050 is a decent GPU from, what, 2014, 2016? They aren't great, but they're alright. Decent GPU performance is what you'd expect - in my opinion, they cared a lot more about the CPU (and it did surpass many of our guesses - I thought it would be mediocre).

    Only time will tell.

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