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Thread: Trainz on ARM64

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Hilliam View Post
    As promised, we've been working on Metal (and ARM64) support and been making good progress. In fact, we're nearly done. As with all these things, the devil is in the detail so there are changes to shaders, render pipelines and all sorts of stuff over my head. But I can say "it's not too far away".
    I'm very glad for continued Mac support and the move to metal. Is the Arm64 windows, Mac or both? I know it has to take tremendous amount of work to change such a complex game over.
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    Quote Originally Posted by capdiamont View Post
    I never said anything to raise the hope. The original question was if it is possible. The answer to that is always yes.
    how does my post refer to you ?The post was made because I had not seen any comment from nv3 , I’m glad they are continuing to support Mac, but the question re nvidia features in the present game that won’t function on the Mac hasn’t been answered, the rift between apple and nvidia is most unfortunate and it will be interesting to see how the turf fx issue will be dealt with, or whether the current state of affairs will continue to limit what can be offered to Mac users
    Last edited by dangavel; September 27th, 2020 at 04:17 PM.
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

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    Microsoft will be making 64-bit x86 emulation support available for Windows 10 running on ARM processor platforms 'real soon now'.
    Edge Chromium browser has already been made available to Windows Insiders running apps on ARM 64-bit processors.
    More information (and snarky comments) here from The Register: https://www.theregister.com/2020/10/...ds_arm_a_hand/

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    What a coincidence, Nvidia is currently in the process of purchasing ARM, wonder how that will affect apples plans..... ?
    https://www.macworld.com/article/357...for-apple.html
    https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/27/w...is-buying-arm/
    Last edited by dangavel; September 30th, 2020 at 09:36 PM.
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dangavel View Post
    What a coincidence, Nvidia is currently in the process of purchasing ARM, wonder how that will affect apples plans..... ?
    https://www.macworld.com/article/357...for-apple.html
    https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/27/w...is-buying-arm/
    It won't affect anything. Apple licenses the instruction set & makes their own implementations. They do not license or buy individual designs. NVidia will have to keep a hands-off & open approach with their biggest customers regardless. Antitrust regulators would never approve this otherwise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dangavel View Post
    What a coincidence, Nvidia is currently in the process of purchasing ARM, wonder how that will affect apples plans..... ?
    https://www.macworld.com/article/357...for-apple.html
    https://venturebeat.com/2020/09/27/w...is-buying-arm/
    changes nothing. Apple could of bouts ARM, however owning it would of brought regulatory pressure on them. Apple can’t be restricted.
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    just another article on the future of ARM on the Mac. https://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/...efits-3790979/

    "But the biggest winner will be Apple.

    No obvious gain for all users

    For those who have a laptop and want decent power and the longest possible battery life, I think Apple's processors will do tremendously well.
    Intel's processors are constantly hitting the heat ceiling, and the MacBook Air could just as well have got its name from how much it draws on the fan as from its lightweight chassis. If you've used an iPad Pro - based on proprietary Apple chips - you'll have been struck by how well it manages to deal with heavy work tasks in apps such as iMovie and GarageBand while remaining completely silent.
    Users of desktop Macs do not necessarily have as much to benefit. First, the processor is not always the most important component in such machine; the graphics card can be significantly more important, obviously in games but also in many professional programs.

    Second, on the iMac, the Mac mini and most importantly the Mac Pro, Apple must not only beat Intel in terms of performance per watt but also in pure performance. Power efficiency isn't everything. Customers won't buy a Mac Pro that's both slower and less versatile (for example, no way to run Windows), no matter how little power it draws.

    Mac users who choose that platform because they prefer macOS but want a flexible, broadly usable computer that can do anything will have problems with the new Macs, at least initially. Although Rosetta 2 works incredibly well, there will be programs that simply do not work, and hardware whose drivers are never updated. Logic Pro X will be optimised, but what happens to the hundreds of plugins musicians and audio editors usually work with?
    Since Metal was released, developers have requested better compatibility with Vulkan and DirectX 12, to make it easier to port Windows and console games - but Apple has not listened so far. Whether or not the Macs of the future will run anything other than mobile games is entirely up to Apple, and many game-loving Mac users may be forced to buy a PC, even though a MacBook in theory has the power to run any game."

    Its incredible that a year after the mac pro was released that the software that can take advantage of its power is still quite limited. Typical Apple technique, release something and hope everyone will adapt their practices and software to accommodate the new tech, it worked with the iMac, when they abandoned floppy disc drives , but from what I can see since the new mac pro has been released prices of the 2012 cheese grater units units have gone up , possibly because people still want to use legacy apps or just find the price of the new machines to be too much to bear given the limiting software that can take advantage of that power.
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    You missed a part. "We users have a lot to gain from this. Intel has been lagging behind in development for many years, particularly in terms of manufacturing technology: Taiwanese firm TSMC now leads the way with its super-efficient 5nm technology. Mac users will be able to take advantage of TSMC's power-efficient chips.Many developers will also be happy. Finally, they don't have to put so much effort into making a completely different version for Mac. They can simply release their iOS app on the Mac App Store, or reuse large parts of its code for the Mac version. This will cause many more iOS apps to be ported to the Mac."

    I will disagree about performance being the most important part on the iMac and Mac Mini. Mac mini was known and advertised as being a very low power Mac. The iMacs were not high performance either. Both form factors are heat constrained. Now with the iMac Pro, they added a good deal of cooling and power. Yes there are use cases that will not be useable and some people will have to delay due to software not being ready. Nothing new.
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    One thing that I don't understand is that Trainz has 'leaned' towards Nvidia for years and yet the game is still not optimised for Nvidia GPUs (ie. recognised by Nvidia and listed as supported). No idea at all if Nvidia's acquisition of ARM makes any difference to this situation in any way!

    Paul (as usual, baffled by technology)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulsw2 View Post
    One thing that I don't understand is that Trainz has 'leaned' towards Nvidia for years and yet the game is still not optimised for Nvidia GPUs (ie. recognised by Nvidia and listed as supported). No idea at all if Nvidia's acquisition of ARM makes any difference to this situation in any way!

    Paul (as usual, baffled by technology)

    Probably not, as usual we'll find out in the fullness of time, it may well be that optimising for onhe typ[e of gpu disadvantages those who use AMD . When NV3 declined to help troubleshoot my GTX 970 on mac os a few years back because it wasn't officially supported by apple,I decided it was no point in trying to make them work with Trainz on my Mac pro, they are great gpus ( 8 year old mac pro booted up in seconds and worked great on every program i had APART from TANE ), but very sad when they cannot be used universally .

    Obviously nvidia and Apples dislike of each other isn't going away soon, moving away from Intel creates a lot of unknowns, and NV3 aren't saying anything about nvidia features that don't work in 2019 for Macs. PC wise I doubt this will be any issue at all as I am sure that NV3 will keep the main priority on developing the game for the platform that most of us use. However I just get fed up of reading promises that never seem to fulfill their potential or leave out particular platforms due to spats between manufacturers. I used to be a defender of apple but the longer I use their products the more cynical I become about their actions as they seem more interested in their gadgets than their computers.
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    Between Apple and Nvidia wasn’t just a spat, as there was graphics failures that cost Apple a lot of money. https://appleinsider.com/articles/09...contract_fight

    Failures like that cost Apple a lot of money and hurt their reputation. Every time Apple has a failure or defect, Apple gets hit hard. I think Apple should support Nvidia eGPUs. I think Apple going ARM will help the Mac as it brings the developers who are already experienced with iOS to the Mac side with the same GPU family. You can have one app that runs nativity on all their devices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by capdiamont View Post
    Between Apple and Nvidia wasn’t just a spat, as there was graphics failures that cost Apple a lot of money. https://appleinsider.com/articles/09...contract_fight

    Failures like that cost Apple a lot of money and hurt their reputation. Every time Apple has a failure or defect, Apple gets hit hard. I think Apple should support Nvidia eGPUs. I think Apple going ARM will help the Mac as it brings the developers who are already experienced with iOS to the Mac side with the same GPU family. You can have one app that runs nativity on all their devices.
    With all due respect, that was over a decade ago,Apple used a number of nvidia gpus after that , the gtx 680 being the last and probably the best. its hardly an excuse to jettison an entire line of the best gpus available for a decade , its o reason to not even produce decent drivers for cards , especially given that Apple have since produced many of their own in house disasters such as the macbookpro keyboards, which they persisted with for 5 YEARS before they abandoned them, or their mac pro dust bin design that had major flaws for pro users as well as heat issues . They have issued some disastrous security updates , one of which killed my graphics card and also killed logic boards and another that they had to withdraw within a few days of issue.

    They don't seem to worry that much over their own snafus , and they hardly ever apologize either, the worst issue I've had with them was with yosemite where there were password reset issues for about six months , i finally found an obscure fix that someone online mentioned but ihad an entire room of imacs where sometimes up to half of them could not be used as no one could log on to them , this was due to their lack of support , no one from apple would help, despite numerous attempts to get a solution, they more or less washed their hands of us once they had flogged us the machines.
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

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    Quote Originally Posted by dangavel View Post
    With all due respect, that was over a decade ago,Apple used a number of nvidia gpus after that , the gtx 680 being the last and probably the best. its hardly an excuse to jettison an entire line of the best gpus available for a decade , its o reason to not even produce decent drivers for cards , especially given that Apple have since produced many of their own in house disasters such as the macbookpro keyboards, which they persisted with for 5 YEARS before they abandoned them, or their mac pro dust bin design that had major flaws for pro users as well as heat issues . They have issued some disastrous security updates , one of which killed my graphics card and also killed logic boards and another that they had to withdraw within a few days of issue.

    They don't seem to worry that much over their own snafus , and they hardly ever apologize either, the worst issue I've had with them was with yosemite where there were password reset issues for about six months , i finally found an obscure fix that someone online mentioned but ihad an entire room of imacs where sometimes up to half of them could not be used as no one could log on to them , this was due to their lack of support , no one from apple would help, despite numerous attempts to get a solution, they more or less washed their hands of us once they had flogged us the machines.
    oh please. You are complaining about an operating system that came out almost six years ago, yet you say Apple and Nvidia should give up their spat? If that Nvidia GPU issue would of junked your machine, I’m sure you would of added it to your list. Yes apple still used Nvidia after that, it isn’t like it is a quick fix to change GPUs in everything and get all the code right. I’m very sure that the people who had their machines junked by the Nvidia GPU issue didn’t think Nvidia is the best GPU. You discount the damage caused by the GPU issue and yet hit Apple on these other issues. The keyboard issue was statistically overblown by media. Yes it still stinks when it happens to you, however it was overblown. Yes every issue hurts, including that GPU issue. Which OS doesn’t have issues? I use windows and I get crashes with Microsoft’s own apps in Windows 10. Ctrl -Alt-del and use task manager to force those apps to shutdown. They are still using 32 bit apps. Why???? I’ve been using tech for too long to whine about all the issues. Don’t like all the issues, then get rid of computers. No point being bitten about it.
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  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by capdiamont View Post
    oh please. You are complaining about an operating system that came out almost six years ago, yet you say Apple and Nvidia should give up their spat? If that Nvidia GPU issue would of junked your machine, I’m sure you would of added it to your list. Yes apple still used Nvidia after that, it isn’t like it is a quick fix to change GPUs in everything and get all the code right. I’m very sure that the people who had their machines junked by the Nvidia GPU issue didn’t think Nvidia is the best GPU. You discount the damage caused by the GPU issue and yet hit Apple on these other issues. The keyboard issue was statistically overblown by media. Yes it still stinks when it happens to you, however it was overblown. Yes every issue hurts, including that GPU issue. Which OS doesn’t have issues? I use windows and I get crashes with Microsoft’s own apps in Windows 10. Ctrl -Alt-del and use task manager to force those apps to shutdown. They are still using 32 bit apps. Why???? I’ve been using tech for too long to whine about all the issues. Don’t like all the issues, then get rid of computers. No point being bitten about it.
    I know all about the downsides of windows as I also have used it for decades, I used both platforms at home and at work for over 20 years , we stuck with apple at work because in the late 90s it was the best out of box experiences for multimedia and I defended them to both students and staff for decades , but no more, I've had enough of their stupid decisions that cost users thousands.

    You can never ever change the mind of an apple fanboi,to them apple can do no wrong, I mentioned the above instances of their snafus to illustrate the shallowness of your argument, that apple will stop using an entire line of Gpus because some of their cards had issues on one occasion. If that was the case, then almost every manufacturer in the world would've constantly swopping suppliers , because they all have quality issues from time to ime.
    The issue is no doubt deeper than that ( probably dues personality clashes in the upper echelons of each company ) but since apple are so secretive I expect we will never find ou the true reasons as to why they have made that particular decision. do you despute that, within the computing world , in the last decade it has been nvidia who has made the fastest and most reliable gpus ? My tech says he doesn't sell many AMD gpus due to quality issues and my rx580 dying after just under two years doesn't make me feel particularly safe with them either , but I have no other choice of brand if I continue to use apple.
    Unfortunately apples choices prevent me from getting the best experiences in trainz and their choices to limit upgradabilty and ease of user repairs over the years have caused both my employers and myself to be constantly upgrading cameras,cables software, storage and a vast array of connectors which are now largely obsolete. Makes them a nice little packet tho....https://www.extremetech.com/computin...oblem-flexgate

    The point is, they don't seem to care about other major flaws that make them look bad which they have created themselves. My g4 laptop had numerous issues with screens , didn't stop them continuing to use those screens , they inexplicably and consistently hobbled the Mac pros with a tiny selection of graphics cards ,they didn't update the Mac mini for years ( jeepers how much would it have cost to update that simple little unit ? ) and to buy a decent one costs nearly as much as an iMac, yet it still has a cruddy graphics card unless you buy an egpu and it's highly likely that these egpus will not be supported by the move to Arm, windows users on Apple probably will be affected, but as usual apple will force them to adapt to their decisions ( and Yes Microsoft also makes its own cavalier decisions but in general they don't make lots of this old computers obsolete anywhere near as regularly as apple does, my 2010 Mac Pro won't be able to be used in big sur- even tho it's still an extremely good machine, probably a user will be able to create a hack, but I'm not betting on it .)

    Apple is a very strange company , as they always have put their user base last , relying on people like you who seem too find an excuse for anything that they do wrong . They make changes that seriously disrupt their user base, and people accept it blithely. I will continue to use their computers as long as I can , but their lack of upgradability, excessive prices and increasing sloppiness in executing updates is not something I'm going to make excuses for, because it can't be excused , no matter how much you attempt to do so. Even if apple doesn't want to sell na s with video cards, why prevent nvidis from releasing the drivers ? This article is most illuminating , there seems to be no technical reason , it speculates that than leadership not wanting it to happen is the main reason , very little or nothing to do with reliability , which makes sense since apples reputation would not be sullied by a few thousand pro users and gamers installing video cards , but most of these folks are really annoyed with apple and justifiably so. https://www.extremetech.com/computin...s-10-14-mojave
    Last edited by dangavel; October 10th, 2020 at 06:02 PM.
    WARNING! The Surgeon General has determined that the use of the simulator Trainz is highly addictive,

  15. #30
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    You have missed my point entirely. Again you like to jump down the throat of anyone who simply try to enjoy what they have. This is not excusing flaws, just simply not needing to whine about the flaws in every forum and thread. Why can’t you get that point???? I have life to live, and acting bitter about the flaws does nothing good. It is simply a waste of everyone’s time to whine about the history of every flaw. List one time I posted anything glowing about Apple. The answer is you can’t, yet get this stupid idea I’m a fanboy. You don’t know jack about me and ignored what I have said. Over and over I have said I just wish to enjoy myself and I have been in tech in tech for decades.
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