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Thread: Schedule/Timetable

  1. #1
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    Question Schedule/Timetable

    In Plus 106618, is there a new schedule algorithm? I looked at the Wiki it is still a jumble of stuff with marginal performance dated back to 2016 through to 2020. If there is a new schedule process available in the common Plus version I would love to use it (if it really works). I have finally gotten my route to the point of being ready to run a st of scheduled trains. If there is no schedule system, beyond what was available for the last 2 years I will use the Timecheck rule to trigger train starts and control events during the schedules.
    Last edited by boleyd; September 16th, 2020 at 08:26 AM.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 105100

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    Default

    I don't know. By the way, today was published Plus 109037. No one of N3V has said until now, what has changed in the new version.

    Regards
    Swordfish

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordfish View Post
    I don't know. By the way, today was published Plus 109037. No one of N3V has said until now, what has changed in the new version.

    Regards
    Swordfish
    This is updates for the MPS build part of Plus.

    Keep testing as usual and report bugs. This is why I keep my beta-testing separate from my working versions to keep things from getting messed up should there be a bogus build which can happen with any beta testing.

    As far as schedule related stuff, there doesn't appear to be anything different than before.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 109641

  4. #4
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    I tried the Schedule Rule and the bug remains, as warned in the Wiki. If the train arrives late the next command is not executed. The code to execute the Next Command is present in almost all rules and should be inserted into the Schedule Rule. As usual the PRIMARY function a railroad runs on, Schedule/timetable remains an elusive, and possibly ignored, target. There are a very large number of Rules and a subset them "seem" to be related to scheduling. There may be a set of these existing rules in Plus that will produce a schedule. However, if such a set of rules exist I have not been able to piece together the existing rules into a coherent function called a SCHEDULE. I see no overarching presentation of how any set of rules relate to each other in a planned scheduling manner.

    Yes, you can cobble together some existing rules such as Time Check. However you end up with a stack of commands which are ripe for error.
    The Interlocking system has a scheduling system but it is not clearly, and explicitly defined, in a manner I can understand in error situations.

    Coherent instructions seem to elude N3V. A proper vendor would not publish anything that does not have instructions that an "average" person can use to enhance Trainz. Rules, without description, is an appalling example. Instructions that rely on other instructions which rely on yet another instruction is an intellectual puzzle challenge, but I did not spend my money, and time, to play with puzzles.

    I truly like Trainz, and its warts have not driven me to knitting. However, as I age the value of time becomes a strong factor. Using the N3V product consumes too much time chasing solutions not related to a RAILROAD but to a PROGRAM!
    Last edited by boleyd; September 16th, 2020 at 09:58 AM.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 105100

  5. #5
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    The Schedule Rule has always been an elusive critter even back in the TRS2006 or TRS2004 days when it first arrived on the scene because it doesn't work as a real schedule should and the setup is typically "Auran" in nature.

    The Schedule Library, is quite useful because it does group together driver-commands into a running "schedule". Note the quotes here because it's not a schedule as we would expect with specific departure and arrival times. What it does, however, is assist with quick schedule assignments to AI drivers that use the same schedule. It also helps when setting up large routes because schedules can be grouped in the interface to help with troubleshooting, but sadly this isn't carried over to the Copy-commands from interface; the companion command needed to insert these command strings.

    If there was a way, such as in the old activity editor in the ancient MSTS, to calculate a schedule based on track speed, this would be a plus. Put in the starting terminus, click on and assign intermediate stations, put in the arrival terminus, and the route arrival time at each intermediary station is calculated automatically. With something like this, we could easily build sessions with AI drivers leaving and arriving, and should they run late the next arrival time is calculated like the schedule would be in real life instead of the schedule is halted.

    I never got into programming even during my IT career because even though I was told I had great creative potential for it, I never, ever, had the patience for it. My IT route followed the hardware engineering direction initially, but I ended up as a hardware technician instead and later IT support because I found it more rewarding to fix something once instead of going around in circles forever debugging a typo.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 109641

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    I agree on fixing versus programming. But, in the Dark Ages it was either start being a traveling tech or go into programming by crossing the hall to the customers area. A very early operating system from Univac was used on a very early mainframe. They needed some way of hooking up the AT&T Picture Phone to the mainframe to run the free AT&T corporate wide demo net for their brand new product. So, I was a natural knowing the hardware being the hard-part and a rare commodity. Anyhow it worked and was an early API. We even had the Corporate Aircraft schedule on the TV phones so the privileged could set their travel schedule. But I was BEING PAID. Not PAYING.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 105100

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    That's cool stuff. I started much later, i.e. mid-1980s, and still enjoyed the wave.

    I agree we are PAYING and not being paid, which is the big difference in this.

    In all honesty, I'm not holding my breath waiting and I'll be quite surprised if anything is really done with this in this regard because it's a practical thing and not a pretty thing which sells quicker.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 109641

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    Not so long ago I received a poll from N3V and many of the questions asked were about timetables so I think N3V is considering doing something with it, until then I use the 'wait until II' session rule( <kuid:32711:100025> ), it does what I want from a schedule drive.

    Ron

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    I am a fan of Timecheck. Starts a session at a specific game clock time.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 105100

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    So, from my reading of this thread, it sounds like there isn’t proper schedule/timetable functionality in Trainz, but if I learn how to use the wait until session rule and something called Timecheck, I can hobble together a solution. Is that correct?

    Can anyone point me to anything helpful to learn this?

    Is this a good starting point:
    http://www.auran.com/games/gamefiles...tutorial1.html

    or this:
    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...Tables_Manager
    thanks!
    Last edited by jimbursch; October 22nd, 2020 at 07:12 AM.
    Jim Bursch
    Transport Sims
    https://transportsims.com

  11. #11
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    Read the Stuff in the Wiki as well as the info that accompanies the rules. TimeCheck is very simple. It will allow the NEXT command to function only when a specified time is reached. The time is the Game Clock you see at the top of the screen. So you can stack up several commands for multiple trains with a TimeCheck between each commands. So, a schedule would be to start train a at 10:00, B at 10:05 with and C at 10:22. Just place the TimeCheck BEFORE each set of commands for each train. Keep in mind that the B3V system is a simple sequential list of commands that starts "things" such as trains. Any command in the string of commands may be held until TimeCheck says to go.

    As far as I know there is no way to hop around the the simple top down order such as IF ___ Jump to ____.

    This is not a timetable. There is no timetable in Trainz. But this linear method is simplistic and it works.

    Oh, one more thing. You can change the title of the TimeCheck command to indicate the name of the train you are starting.
    Helps when you see a long stack of start commands for a big route.

    RATE and TIME command will set the clock to a start time you choose so you can start your run of trains at 4am if you want to.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 105100

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    I tried the Schedule Rule and the bug remains, as warned in the Wiki. If the train arrives late the next command is not executed. The code to execute the Next Command is present in almost all rules and should be inserted into the Schedule Rule. As usual the PRIMARY function a railroad runs on, Schedule/timetable remains an elusive, and possibly ignored, target. There are a very large number of Rules and a subset them "seem" to be related to scheduling. There may be a set of these existing rules in Plus that will produce a schedule. However, if such a set of rules exist I have not been able to piece together the existing rules into a coherent function called a SCHEDULE. I see no overarching presentation of how any set of rules relate to each other in a planned scheduling manner.

    Yes, you can cobble together some existing rules such as Time Check. However you end up with a stack of commands which are ripe for error.
    The Interlocking system has a scheduling system but it is not clearly, and explicitly defined, in a manner I can understand in error situations.

    Coherent instructions seem to elude N3V. A proper vendor would not publish anything that does not have instructions that an "average" person can use to enhance Trainz. Rules, without description, is an appalling example. Instructions that rely on other instructions which rely on yet another instruction is an intellectual puzzle challenge, but I did not spend my money, and time, to play with puzzles.

    I truly like Trainz, and its warts have not driven me to knitting. However, as I age the value of time becomes a strong factor. Using the N3V product consumes too much time chasing solutions not related to a RAILROAD but to a PROGRAM!
    Totally agree with this - it's been a bugbear of mine for the 15 years I've been playing this game. Trying to set up sessions even with basic scheduling gives me total brain ache, such that I spend most of my time building routes and hardly any actually playing with them (which may be a reason I'm kind of losing interest these days). A basic scheduling/timetabling tool, with an intuitive user-interface and supported by an accessible user-guide would revolutionise this game!

    Paul

  13. #13
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    Hi

    I wonder what people mean by a timetabling system. Do you just want one train to follow a route with arrival and departure times preset or do you want something that runs a full passenger and freight service on a route?

    Doesn't anyone use the "Mission Code Stops and TimeTables Manager" rule in conjunction with the "Enhanced Interlocking Towers" and Mission Codes by PGuy?

    The Mission Code Stops and TimeTables Manager rule lets you set up the stops for a train and it will run the timetable with just two driver commands, one to tell it which timetable to use and the second to execute that timetable. I'm currently using it on a route of well over 100 km with 27 stations on the main line (Polish route D29 which unfortunately does not seem to be available now) and it is performing flawlessly. It even opens the doors on the platform side of the rolling stock. You don't have to work out the times of the stops as it has an option to self teach as it goes along. Once it finishes it's run you can edit the rule in Surveyor to tidy the timetable up as the self teach mode works to the nearest second.

    Pierre even provides instructions on the Wiki to give you guidance on how to use it all.

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...rlocking_Tower
    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...r_Manager_Rule
    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...Tables_Manager
    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...nCodes_Manager

    Of course you have to put some effort into setting it all up which is probably not what some of you want to hear but I find it well worth doing for what I use Trainz for.

    If all this isn't what you want to spend time on learning and setting up then you can create timetables in the previously mentioned Schedule Library and copy them into the train schedules as required. If you use the Wait until Hour and Wait until Minute driver commands you can create timetables that can be used at the same time each hour by different trains. There are also driver commands on the DLS that will allow you to control the time spent at a station and open and close the doors on the correct side. However this can also take quite a bit of time to set up depending on the route length and number of stations.

    Dick

    Have a look for driver commands by author "trev999" where you will find commands such as Insert Buff Label, Jump to Label, Skip If Session Variable and Wait until s-variable which can be used in conjunction with the value held in a variable to allow trains to make decisions about what they do next.

    Regards

    Brian
    Last edited by Kennilworth; October 26th, 2020 at 06:46 AM. Reason: Added info about commands for variables

  14. #14
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    Cool

    It is not the setup but, as with many functions, it is what to do if it fails. The knowledge to set it up is a lot less than if something does not work. Setting it up and having success is enjoyment. Setting it up and have it fail is a disappointment. I have tried to use MC many times but problems that are consuming my time only tell me I will waste even more time in the future. Cut losses (time) and move on. I may try it one more time to avoid a very long list of homemade driver commands which only invite errors. Also with the indiscriminate fixes from N3V any customer created process is subject to vendor induced errors.

    A timetable is for passengers A schedule is for rail road employees.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.2ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 3gb video card. 105100

  15. #15
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    How about "it just works" as a principle here? Rules and commands are a brain ache and sessions are like a soul destroying maths class* which is why most people don't bother with them. If people aren't using the functionality in your game that means it basically doesn't 'work' and it needs to be changed. Except that we've had no change in this part of Trainz for the 15 years I've been playing the game - this whole area needs a complete overhaul. Ultimately, a train game should be about running trains, not just pretty screenshots, surely?

    Paul

    EDIT: to be more precise - they're too fiddly, not user intuitive and all too often they don't work properly, so you spend your entire time dealing with errors rather than running any actual trains!
    Last edited by Paulsw2; October 28th, 2020 at 05:18 PM.

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