Do steam locomotives work yet?

Xenithar

Member
I have several versions of the Trainz franchise and have yet to be able to successfully operate a steam locomotive. There is a well-known bug in previous releases where the boiler pressure builds as though you are heating the water with lava. This causes the emergency valves to hiss (migraines anybody?) constantly while operating in driver mode. This even happens in TANE. I want a a newer, better-looking simulator, but only if the simulator works. Can anybody who owns TRS19 tell me whether or not the steam locomotives are still plagued by this bug which dates back to at least 2009?
 
Where this happens it's due to the engine spec. Many engine specs for steam locomotives in Trainz are near useless when it comes to driving under the 'advanced' controls and the only answer is to find out who the good engine spec writers are and only use their files. I model the British pre-grouping era so I don't know anything about engine specs for US locomotives or who might write the better ones. Sometimes I've ended up having to write my own engine specs for some of my 19th century locomotives in order to get them to work properly, but I wouldn't really recommend this unless you have the number for the mental health hotline on speed dial.
 
X --

Your migraine problem. I share it too. The continuous popping of the safety valves drives me to distraction. One way is to edit the built-in "Sounds" file. Search for it in Mange Content. Use a wave editing application to reduce the sounds of the safety valves.

Alternatively, download and install this cdp:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdz2p5euj7a0v49/aa Sounds_SafetyValveModified.cdp?dl=0

It will obsolete the built-in Sounds and make the safety valves inaudible. Now I dunno if it works with T:ANE. It certainly works in TRS19. If you try it and it don't work then just remove it and you will be back to the original.

For T:ANE you might also like to try one of the locomotives I've uploaded to the Download Station. They use an enginespec that I developed by trial and error. You might find it works better for you than most others.

Tell us how you go.

Phil
 
I don't want to mute the noise, I want to have to manage my water and coal, so if it is muted it is still like cheating since I have infinite steam pressure. Also, I have yet to see a boiler explode in Trainz. That would be a nice touch.

Either way for the price one pays for these games you would expect them to either work out of the box, or be patched to work. Steam is a challenge and steam railroading is LITERALLY part of my family history (N&W). I want to do this but at this point it seems as though my best bet is to find a real steamer, get trained, and operate for charity or something.
 
Remember it's not N3V who writes the engine spec files for steam engines it's ordinary Trainz community members who do that in their spare time without being paid for it. There have been some rare occasions when N3V has modded engine spec files, but the general consensus is that they don't do a very good job of it.
Should you want to mod your own engine spec files the first thing you will need is the detailed specifications of the locomotive your are writing the engine spec for and then you'll need to read the Wiki on what all the spec tabs in an engine spec file mean and the measurement units they are expressed in. Some of these are not what you'd logically think so be warned. After that you'll need a test track, - the one I use is the West Somerset's Minehead branch, - and then it comes down to patient testing and learning from your mistakes as well as your successes.

I come from a railway family too and my grandad and uncles were on the footplate during the steam era here in New Zealand.
 
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I don't want to mute the noise, I want to have to manage my water and coal, so if it is muted it is still like cheating since I have infinite steam pressure. Also, I have yet to see a boiler explode in Trainz. That would be a nice touch.

Either way for the price one pays for these games you would expect them to either work out of the box, or be patched to work. Steam is a challenge and steam railroading is LITERALLY part of my family history (N&W). I want to do this but at this point it seems as though my best bet is to find a real steamer, get trained, and operate for charity or something.

May I recommend K&L Trainz for their excellent work on steam locomotives, who all have custom enginespecs and made models of N&W's A class, M Class, and J Class? https://kltrainz.com/
 
KotangG --

Yep, tried that approach. Got all the specs for the locomotive. Digested the indigestible Wiki. Tested. Made modifications. The result was woeful.

My alternative approach. I took an existing espec that seemed to work reasonably well. I altered it by experiment so that when using the correct driving technique (full regulator/throttle, adjust speed with the cut-off/reverser, keep water level and coal near capacity):

  • On the flat with an appropriate trailing load the boiler pressure could be maintained with the occasional blowing off of the safety valves.
  • Uphill the boiler pressure would decrease if the boiler was mortgaged, that is, the locomotive was flogged with full regulator and the cut-off was set towards full admission (high numerical value).
  • Downhill boiler pressure increased.

I have two especs on the Download Station. One for small/medium sized locomotives. The other for Big Steam -- Big Boy, Cab Forward, ... .

Phil
 
My first adventure into especs Phil was writing an espec for a 19th century locomotive with gab valve gear so it had to be diven differently with the gear in either full forward or full reverse and speed control done with the regulator. Boiler pressure was only 60lbs. The Trainz controls aren't really set up well for doing this so if I forgot and tried to drive it like a more modern locomotive it all went haywire. Driven correctly though it was a lot of fun to drive.
If I'm going for modding an existing espec I look for one that has the same size boiler, - or close enough, - to what I want. After that it's trying to sort out the correct magical incantations to get everything to work. Injector flow and coal load per shovelful seem to be critical and i had an engine recently that wouldn't fill its boiler with water or keep the firebox topped up until I hit the right magic numbers.
 
Hi Xenithar
Steam locomotives definitely work, albeit with a few shortcomings, in TRS19.

The main shortcomings are a lack of a damper control unfortunately, boiler pressure remaining stagnant when the boiler goes cold when not using steam, and some potential limitations to adjusting steam usage (which affects coal/water usage).

However, there are unfortunately many locomotives do not have great enginespec assets, and as such they may either perform unrealistically or are difficult to drive realistically. The biggest one is that locomotives are poorly configured for steam generation rates and safety valves. There is a LOT of experimentation needed to get these right, but it can be done to a reasonable level in most cases.

The biggest two issues are that locos either generate steam too easily (or do not use enough steam, same thing for the most part but different parts of the espec causing it), or their safety valves are very poorly setup (either with too high or too slow a rate).

Some locos are setup to release a massive amount of steam from the safety valves very quickly, which causes the boiler pressure to rapidly increase and drop. This results in a constant 'pst pst pst pst pst' from the safety valves when driving; unless you manage to slow the steam generation a bit.

Others release pressure too slowly, resulting in the safety valves remaining on for longer periods than might be desired.

Finding the balance between the two can be difficult, as it is in real life!

The other part is how you manage your fire though. When you expect to be working really hard, you'll want the coal level around 100% (this is the optimum coal level, where the fire will be hottest). Where you expect to be working hard soon, but not straight away, you might increase it over 100% (so effectively bank the fire, allowing it to burn down to 100% as you get to where you need it hotter). Where you expect to be working less, you'll keep the coal level lower (resulting in a cooler fire, and hence less steam being generated).

Remember that there is a lag between the fire getting hotter or colder, and the boiler pressure changing. There is a known issue that causes the boiler pressure to not drop when the loco is cold, but not using steam (ie when sitting in a yard), however the safety valves will still use steam up if they do lift.

But this lag means that you need to plan ahead, generally several minutes ahead (depending on the loco, some might need you to plan ahead further). On real locos, how far ahead you need to plan depends on the loco, the route, and the type of coal you are burning. Some coals may need you to plan 10-15 minutes ahead, others might only need you to plan a few minutes ahead. This has, in previously releases, been quite difficult since it was difficult to know the lay of the track ahead (and most of us don't have time to thoroughly learn a route like the real crews would do!). With TRS19, the new track profile display allows you to see the grades ahead of you, allowing you to plan ahead for when you need to add coal, or when to not add coal!

You will of course need to get to know the loco you are driving to work out how long it'll take for the fire to heat up, and then the boiler to heat up.

It was also mentioned about driving practice above; the method you use to drive the loco (ie how to use the regulator and cut-off) can vary a bit between locos. Certainly, when you are wanting to 'power'/accelerate superheated locos work best when you have the regulator as wide open as possible and then drive off the cut-off. Of course when you don't need to power you may still need to adjust the regulator to help to control the train's speed. However saturated (non superheated) locos can vary between wanting you to drive off the cut-off or drive off a combination of the two; opening the regulator too far can drain the boiler far faster than you may want even with a short cut-off, or may simply put down more power than the wheels have traction for.

Regards
 
No one has mentioned the smoke from steam engines in Trs 19 and why it comes out of the front of the chimney or the rear of it or why it can come out about a metre in front of it then work its way back to the chimney or why it can also puff out in various odd individual puffs not part of the main exhaust. Do others experience this too?

Edit: Phil skene, do you still have that site available with all Ben Neals locos updated on it and are they up to Trs 19 by any chance? Cheers
 
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No problems driving the 7F, 2P, 4P, Fowler tanks or anything really I use in T:ANE. Following the LMS' little and often process. Don't go above 100% on fire as it'll reduce your injector performance. Best steaming i've had was on the Cummings Class 4-4-0 however, it was probably a little too good and the safetys were going of more than they should. The problem is people just use max forward and reverse cut-off regulator and it can kill the steam unrealistically quickly on moving off, especially if the player spawned in away from them. Very annoying bug but with some very careful pull aways or patiently waiting with the blower on you can gain the needed pressure to move off no worries.
 
No one has mentioned the smoke from steam engines in Trs 19 and why it comes out of the front of the chimney or the rear of it or why it can come out about a metre in front of it then work its way back to the chimney or why it can also puff out in various odd individual puffs not part of the main exhaust. Do others experience this too?]

I raised a ticket with regard to faulty steam effects in TRS19.
The problem for me was two or three instances of smoke being emitted, especially noticeable at slow speed. I was told that the anim2 tag is broken in TRS19. There was no mention if it's getting fixed.

Chris.
 
No one has mentioned the smoke from steam engines in Trs 19 and why it comes out of the front of the chimney or the rear of it or why it can come out about a metre in front of it then work its way back to the chimney or why it can also puff out in various odd individual puffs not part of the main exhaust. Do others experience this too?]

I raised a ticket with regard to faulty steam effects in TRS19.
The problem for me was two or three instances of smoke being emitted, especially noticeable at slow speed. I was told that the anim2 tag is broken in TRS19. There was no mention if it's getting fixed.

Chris.

Also turn PhysX off. First time I played 19 it was on by default and it looked absolutely terrible.
 
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