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Thread: Unbonded Routes?

  1. #1
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    Question Unbonded Routes?

    What is an UNBONDED ROUTE?

    Also, while I am asking questions - What is a backward switch?
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.3ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 4gb video card

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    unbonded = not signaled, no detection circuitry. Signals will display restricting. Not sure about the backward switch thing? Are you referencing Jointed Rail Smart Signals by chance?
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    The unbonded question stems from the option on a Jointed Rails signal.
    I thought it may have meant a railway that was operated, but not by a commercially run railroad company. Both were too technical for Google.

    I may have mis-rembered the reference to a switch being backward.
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    Trainz junctions have 3 states. Left, Right, and Forward (think 3 way switch). Maybe you were thinking of that?

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    I have seen the option "backwards" in reference to switches, a set junction rule I believe, but it made no sense to me either.

    In regards to "unbonded", a Google search for "open access railways" indicated that it might refer to track that is open to all rail operators to use, and not just to one single operator.
    Last edited by pware; July 31st, 2020 at 06:30 PM. Reason: minor typo
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    Also the possibility of a difference in nomenclature. A switch lined straight is "normal" and lined diverging can be called "reverse". If it is in reference to JR smart signals, always think of the straight path through junctions from the perspective of looking at the points, not the always the direction of train travel.
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    Yes, it was the "reverse" label that I saw in some messages that confused me. I see no reverse in the operation of a switch as a pure civilian. I can only assume that reverse is a locally created label, assumed to be more widespread, The railroads must have evolved without any central government control and the colloquial terms were propagated and often misunderstood. Central government control (often disliked by some) is necessary unless you enjoy seeing train and plane accidents.

    Jointed Rail actually does have a setting on some switches called "unbonded" with no explanation assuming it is a universal tag.
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    As a retired railroad worker I can confirm that "Unbonded" means a railroad that has no signaling system in place, other than at public highway/railroad grade crossings with warning devices and some isolated interlockings. The Cape May Seashore Lines, of which I'm affiliated, is one such railroad. The term "dark railroad/branch/secondary" is also used. Note that the term "protection" is discouraged in modern-day U.S. railroading practice, as the devices do not "protect" the grade crossing, but only warn the non-rail user that a train is approaching. Not even gates/barriers are called protection devices, only warning devices. You will hear the statement, at a highway/rail grade crossing, "Warning devices are functioning (working) as intended".

    I've never heard of a "backward" switch. In U.S. rail terminology you have a normal switch, where the main path is most used. This is normally, but not always, the straight path through the switch. Reverse is used for the least used path. Again, normally the diverging route, but not always. In yards either path could be normal or reverse.

    You have trailing and facing point switches. The difference being if when you approach a switch you come to the points first (facing point) or the frog first (trailing point). On most multi-tracked lines trailing point switches are preferred as they are safer, you can't "pick a point" on a trailing point switch, so you can't derail.
    Last edited by LionkingCMSL; August 3rd, 2020 at 08:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    Central government control (often disliked by some) is necessary unless you enjoy seeing train and plane accidents.
    Regulation probably, control No.

    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    Jointed Rail actually does have a setting on some switches called "unbonded" with no explanation assuming it is a universal tag.
    On some signals you mean. Yes because that is what it is called. I know of no other term to place there (I did write all of the smart signal code).

    see the manual:
    https://jointedrail.com/smart-signal-manual/

    I didn't answer the unbonded question because it was already answered in post 2.

    also see:

    https://www.trainorders.com/discussi....php?1,3846291
    https://www.apta.com/wp-content/uplo...il-Systems.pdf -> "Bond, SignalA conductor of low resistance providing a path for track circuit current across bolted rail joints."
    http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/111/t/165762.aspx -> "A track that has occupancy detection is said to be bonded. A track without detection is said to be unbonded. This term comes from the act of bonding wires to the rails to create a track circuit."

    Your implication is that the terms are "local" and that assumptions were made that everyone knows what it means - well no, but the assumption was that we could provide the correct labeling and you were capable of learning some of the common terms and lingo related to railroads as this is a train simulator.
    Last edited by norfolksouthern37; August 3rd, 2020 at 10:48 AM.

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    An addendum:
    Yes, it was the "reverse" label that I saw in some messages that confused me. I see no reverse in the operation of a switch as a pure civilian. I can only assume that reverse is a locally created label, assumed to be more widespread, The railroads must have evolved without any central government control and the colloquial terms were propagated and often misunderstood. Central government control (often disliked by some) is necessary unless you enjoy seeing train and plane accidents.
    The term "normal" and "reverse" probably date from the beginning of the railroads. I know they have been in use for over 100 years in the U.S. Also, they are not "local" terms, as they are used on most, if not all, U.S. railroads and probably in most other parts of the world. In fact, those terms are used in model railroading, as they are common railroad terms.

    Yes, the railroads did evolve without any central government oversight. The railroads, in this country, for a major portion of their history were self-regulating. It was not until the formation of the ICC, the FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) in the 1970s, and the NTSB did the federal government exercise some regulatory powers over the railroads. Congress did step in at times when safety was an issue. It was Congress that mandated the air brake and the Janney style handclasp coupler, and that was in the late 1800s. As it is the railroads control themselves and the federal government regulates what they can and cannot do. They are, with the exception of Amtrak, privately-owned companies, not owned or operated by the government.
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    A well written explanation LionKing.

    Here in Oz the situation, until fairly recently, has been the opposite. Almost all railways were owned and operated by the various state governments as monopolies. A few privately owned railways existed but mostly in the coal and mineral hauling sectors.

    From around the 1980s onward the state governments largely privatised their railways in various ways. The ownership of the track and infrastructure was usually handed over to a state run but independent agency and most commuter services stayed under public ownership and operation (much like the various transit authorities in the US). This allowed private freight operators to run services for the first time. The details have varied from state to state as have the levels of success. No state has been 100% successful with the privatisation process with various levels of intervention required. One state had to resume total state ownership and control of their entire rail network and services after various private operators came and went.
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