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Thread: Session layer problem

  1. #1
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    Default Session layer problem

    I've been working on a new layout in TS2012 and when I loaded up the in progress layout and started work a message box popped up saying that I needed to open the session layer in order to place assets. I thought this a bit odd since I'd previously been building the layout in the route layer with the session layer turned off. Not thinking about it too hard I opened the session layer with the route layer still open and carried on for an hour or two.

    When I came back to work on the layout again in surveyor my latest work wasn't there. Yes the horror all Trainz folk dread. Knowing this problem of old I merged the session and route layers and it made no difference at all, in fact it was worse because when I reloaded the layout I was now looking at blank baseboards. Quick as I could I exited surveyor and loaded the autosave copy and praise be all was well except my latest work was still missing. I saved the autosave copy under a new file name and then decided to do a check around the layout by switching the session layer to invisible and seeing if anything disappeared. Everything seemed fine so I went to carry on working in the route layer and what do you know the pop up message was back saying I needed to turn the session layer on.

    So I turned the session layer on as before with the route layer still open and placed ONE small asset. And what do you know if I set the session layer to invisible it disappeared. BUT the problem still remains that I can't work in the route layer without being blocked by the demand that the session layer needs to be switched on. At about that point I was very annoyed and strongly considering deleting the session layer 'switch me off-on' box in the menu, but something tells me that might be a terrible idea.

    So please can any wise forum member help to shed some light on my problem so I can carry on with building my layout.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  2. #2
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    Think I did that once -- managed to merge the route layer into the session layer 'stead of the other way around. Made me skittish about layers for years.

    :B~\

  3. #3
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    Default Problem solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by RHKluckhohn View Post
    Think I did that once -- managed to merge the route layer into the session layer 'stead of the other way around. Made me skittish about layers for years.

    :B~\
    Yes I was suspicious of layers for a long time, but have started using them lately and have found them to be a useful tool; - all except for the @!%$& session layer which is a monumental pain. I still can't believe that N3V haven't put some kind of indication on the menu bar in the latest versions of Trainz to show which layer is open.

    Anyway I'm happy now because when I started up surveyor again all was well. My previous two hour's work is still lost, but then it could have been worse.
    The problem lies in the session layer being open by default in the way Basemapz sets things up. Somehow I had forgotten to check this before starting work at some unknown time. This time I switched all the layers to invisible except for the session layer and carefully searched the whole layout board for any stray assets. There were none so I switched the layers all back to being visible again and switched the session layer OFF.
    Now I find myself obsessively checking that session-layer is still OFF while I'm working on the layout since i don't want a repeat performance.
    Last edited by KotangaGirl; June 29th, 2020 at 03:37 AM. Reason: spelling
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  4. #4
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    Default

    You know I have rarely used layers. TBH they scare me to death. Recently used basemapz to import a layout of Eastbourne Station. To my horror it was in a layer. Honestly I had no idea what I was doing trying to recreate Eastbourne from this layer. Laid track, which was fine, but when switching to route it all disappeared. Imagine my consternation. Where the **** had it gone! Cutting a long story short I deleted the basemapz layer switched to route layer and presto it was all there. But without the basemapz image. To this day I remain reluctant to use layers till I know what the hell I am doing. Always session layer and route layer confuse the hell out of me.

    Maybe I should practice on an irrelevant route to get savvy on this.
    I hear there are many advantages in using layers.
    Creator of Blue Mountains Line and Southern Region - Brighton Line routes.

  5. #5
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    Default

    I use them carefully. As Annie said, there's no indication of what layer we're working on. I've burned myself a few times and use them only when I need them. I have a HOLD !!! layer off of my route layer which I use to hold on asset while I place others nearby. After the process is completed, I will put that asset back on the route layer.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  6. #6
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    In general I've found Basemapz to be good, but strict disciple is needed to make sure that the right layer is open for the task in hand. So far the layout I'm working on has been behaving with no further problems, but I take particular care now to make sure the session layer remains switched OFF.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  7. #7
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    So what exactly is the 'Session Layer' there for? I get the route layer, and making additional layers for buildings, people etc but wonder what the session layer is for. Looking at it right now I'll place track 'layout' in the 'route' layer. This I am assuming is the basic layer. Everything else can have separate layers, as mentioned.

    Does one assume the 'session layer' is for the 'default session' when in session mode? If so, why? Is it to configure,say, EIT paths?
    Honestly I am at a loss with this, so tend to ignore the whole thing and place everything, without additional layers, into the 'route' layer. Does all that make any sense? I know what I am trying to say here but might not explain it that well.

    As an after thought, all layers are to be merged at conclusion of route creation, right? So why have layers in the first place? Doh...much confusion in my head!
    I am a senior so may well be having a moment!
    Creator of Blue Mountains Line and Southern Region - Brighton Line routes.

  8. #8
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    Default

    I think the main purpose of the session layer is to assist people to learn new swear words Val. With the TMR format it's essential to keep the room components in their own layers or it would be completely impossible to do anything without moving assets that you didn't want to be moved, - but I find the session layer to be nothing, but a source of endless irritation and in a word, - useless.

    Just now with finalising a layout I had to go around and remove stray assets that had found their way into the session layer and then replace them in the route layer. Last time I tried a merge it just messed everything up so I elected to do it the slow and tedious way in order to make sure it was done properly. Fortunately the TMR format layouts I build aren't very big so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  9. #9
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    Default

    Oh boy an advice post, here goes nothin.

    I like using layers, I have gotten comfortable with them. Here's my current route layer set:

    Route
    Layout room
    Layout room extras
    Detail 1
    Fascia 1
    Fascia 2
    Fascia 3
    Detail 2

    Just like J I have also gotten Bush wacked by the session layer. Avoid it like the plague. Dont lock it or touch it.

    Ok so about why it's happening to you so often. Anytime you are prompted to unlock the session layer there is a good possibility that you are also now on that layer, as in you have passively selected it by clicking yes when you were prompted to unlock it. Always check your layers tab after a prompt. Also, make a good habit of reviewing the layer tab before you leave it. If you lock or unlock a layer, you need to make sure to reselect the layer you wish to work in.

    Your model railroad really turned out nice KG dont forget to come show it off in the screenshot thread, we need more representation in there.

  10. #10

    Default

    Some information is stored in the session and not the route like driver commands. If you add an extra layer above the route layer it will load with the route. Add another layer above the session layer and this will save in the session only.
    Add a new layer above the session and place Steam engines on the route. Now add another layer and place Diesel engines. This is all saved to the session so if you only open the route you will have no engines. Ideal if you only want to export the route.
    If you do the same above the route layer then they will be there when you open only the route.
    You could open a route to edit and use session layer and place a new rail yard and buildings without effecting the original route. The new build will be in the session so if you only open the route it wont be there. If you like it you can merge into the route

  11. #11
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    Yes, I have learned to use use layers and they can be very helpful, as when trying to place baggage carts or people on platforms. Perhaps they are easier to control in T:ANE than in 12, it's been a while since I worked there.

    When working on a route I take care to work in the default session so that if I goof and put lots of something in the session instead of the route, I can simply merge the session with the ROUTE.

    :B~)

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_Ross View Post
    Oh boy an advice post, here goes nothin.

    I like using layers, I have gotten comfortable with them. Here's my current route layer set:

    Route
    Layout room
    Layout room extras
    Detail 1
    Fascia 1
    Fascia 2
    Fascia 3
    Detail 2

    Just like J I have also gotten Bush wacked by the session layer. Avoid it like the plague. Dont lock it or touch it.

    Ok so about why it's happening to you so often. Anytime you are prompted to unlock the session layer there is a good possibility that you are also now on that layer, as in you have passively selected it by clicking yes when you were prompted to unlock it. Always check your layers tab after a prompt. Also, make a good habit of reviewing the layer tab before you leave it. If you lock or unlock a layer, you need to make sure to reselect the layer you wish to work in.

    Your model railroad really turned out nice KG dont forget to come show it off in the screenshot thread, we need more representation in there.
    That's awfully nice of you to say so Bob.

    I'm starting to like using layers too, but what seems to trip me up is the Basemapz software creating a base route map with the session layer switched on by default. What is just about needed is for the session layer to be behind an 'Advanced' drop down menu with lots of 'Are you really sure you want to do this?' message boxes popping up before it can be switched on. Or even a thousand times asked for indicator on the menu bar to show which layer you're in would be just sooooo nice to have.
    I have started to obsessively check the layers menu, but somehow the problem still seems to creep in. Which then leads to me searching for whatever might be in the session layer and deleting it with extreme prejudice. Fortunately, as I've mentioned, my layouts are smaller ones so it's not so terrible to do this, but I can understand how builders of large routes can just about be driven to drink by this problem.

    Some information is stored in the session and not the route like driver commands. If you add an extra layer above the route layer it will load with the route. Add another layer above the session layer and this will save in the session only.
    Add a new layer above the session and place Steam engines on the route. Now add another layer and place Diesel engines. This is all saved to the session so if you only open the route you will have no engines. Ideal if you only want to export the route.
    If you do the same above the route layer then they will be there when you open only the route.
    You could open a route to edit and use session layer and place a new rail yard and buildings without effecting the original route. The new build will be in the session so if you only open the route it wont be there. If you like it you can merge into the route
    That's very good advice stagecoach. Thank you.
    Narcolepsy is not napping.



  13. #13
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    I believe in KISS, or should it be KISFM - Keep It Simple For Me.

    Before there were layers, we had to modes of route building. We put our stuff down on the route in Surveyor, and did our session editing when we created our driving session in the Session Editor. This meant stuff didn't get mixed and lost into the ether of the Trainzing world.

    In the olden days, setting up ATLS crossing, and other configurable stuff could be done on the route, which made it a lot easier than now because it was all done at the time of the route building rather than returning later to revisit these industries and whatnot the second or third time around. This second and third time visiting means mistakes are made because stuff is forgotten as well as making the process longer and more complex than it should be out of an already sometimes overpowering and daunting task.

    Today, I still work the same way. I do all my route stuff in my route, and when I'm done with that, I create my session where I place trains, setup those things that need to be setup, and setup the schedules. This still works most of the time unless I somehow end up in the wrong place and stuff things up.

    Layers do work and work well. It's just the implementation is poor and when asked more than once about what I would like to see for improvements, the first thing I said was an indicator showing what layer we're working on. We have acres and acres of screen real estate so why not add in a bright green or red indicator showing which layer is active! The response back was crickets and lots of loud ones.

    KISS is your friend.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  14. #14
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    If you upload a route and have any expectation of someone else uploading a session for it, you should use the layers other than the route layer. For example, if your consists are in the route layer, then they are in the way of someone designing a session. If any attempt to move or delete them is made, then a new route and kuid is required. Except for the issue of not knowing what layer you are working in, the whole scheme seems straightforward to me. (passing on bound layers for now)
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  15. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KotangaGirl View Post
    I have started to obsessively check the layers menu, but somehow the problem still seems to creep in. Which then leads to me searching for whatever might be in the session layer and deleting it with extreme prejudice.
    You don't have to search for it, just hide the route layer and then roam around. Select the properties tab on the asset and change to route layer, it should then hide and reappear when you unhide the route layer.

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