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Thread: NV3 Next Generation Content

  1. #46

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    It would be neat to see preservation societies do a sort of “fundraiser” through releasing route addons, but the time it takes to create a route and high-standard stock these days has likely increased ten-fold (or even hundred)?

    More likely, it would be cool to see locomotive preservation societies have someone create their prized possessions for Trainz, then release them with all funds going towards restoring and maintaining their loco. A CoBo Class 28 and Baby Deltic Class 23 spring to mind.

  2. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by EverTrainz View Post
    It would be neat to see preservation societies do a sort of “fundraiser” through releasing route addons, but the time it takes to create a route and high-standard stock these days has likely increased ten-fold (or even hundred)?

    More likely, it would be cool to see locomotive preservation societies have someone create their prized possessions for Trainz, then release them with all funds going towards restoring and maintaining their loco. A CoBo Class 28 and Baby Deltic Class 23 spring to mind.
    Funny you should say about the Class 23 because isn't there one on the DLS that links to the engines society page? They're building one with a cut up 37 iirc.

  3. #48

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    There is, the body is quite nice but the bogies were reused from a very old (2004?) Class 20 model.

    I’m thinking more along the lines of what the latest N3V offerings have been in terms of detail - also hopefully some additional features/functionality such as radiator grill opening to prevent engine overheating, working steam boiler, etc..

  4. #49

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    Like the KWVR, the WSR was also released for MSTS, but also ported across to Trainz and sold either as an addon or standalone product.

    Sales of the MSTS version were much higher I believe.

    I have not found many loco groups etc. particularly receptive in the past - there are some honourable exceptions, but many either don't understand train sims, or look down on them.

    Dovetail/Armstrong Powehouse et al are now big enough that they have enough influence to get access but that doesn't help Trainz.

  5. #50

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    Even DTG was not able to get proper sounds or reference material for the recent 89001 Badger model, according to one of the board members of the AC loco group (Badger’s almost back up and running again, by the way ). Armstrong Powerhouse will continue to cater to whatever the majority of people want - considering how their age demographic is getting younger they will be pumping out less classic stock and more modern stuff. A Baby Deltic would be a waste of resources in their eyes.

    Although I haven’t reached out, I presume that most preservation groups still think of ‘MSTS’ when they think of a simulator so it’s more a matter of we need to show them what can be done, when a route is properly made (I haven’t really been paying attention to routes but your WSR looks nice). I don’t think groups would be too terribly opposed to the idea - all they’d really need to do is assist in getting us detail photos and drawings, along with something to do with getting good sounds.

  6. #51

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    I didn't know DTG had modelled the 89 if I'm honest (that's me distracted for a few days then!) but there's also a difference between "unable" and "can't be bothered" - look at the defaullt DTG sounds. Despite the availbility of at least one functional Hymek when the model was released, DTG just put the Class 37 sounds through a bit of software to alter the pitch and thought no one would notice the difference between a slow supercharged inline 12-pot and a high speed turbocharged V16. The really. really sad bit is lots of people actually didn't.....and my music teacher said I was tone deaf.

    I've offered decent donations in the past for copies of drawings, and you'd think the groups would be happy to get some money in but some people don't like losing control of information and from personal experience I have some sympathy with this. Most groups are much more helpful if approached in person I've found but I've even been refused permission to measure up a loco on public display, having asked nicely before I put a tape anywhere near it as it was an abuse of their intellectual property rights apparently.

    Theft has also made people a lot more paranoid. A few yars ago I was a bit north of here on a job which I had expected to take all day, but in fact had taken about 10 minutes ("Let's just put this fuse back in shall we, Sir?") so as it wasn't far away from where I was I decided to visit the Rutland Railway Museum. It's only a small place and it was the middle of the week so other than ten or so volunteers I was about the only person there. I'm busily taking close up photo's of the sorts of details you and I find interesting, and lots of dismantled bits in the accesible area of their workshop when I realised people were trying (discretely, but not very well) to follow me to keep an eye on me. At this point I realised that I don;t really look like I'm on a day out - I'm wearing cargo pants, steel toe cap boots etc. and I've turned up in a large white Transit van and they're worried I'm casing the place to come back and nick all the non-ferrous fittings. I managed to get chatting to them, and quickly went fromsecurity risk to rivet-counting lunatic and they ran away.

    Beside the scorn you get for modelling (especially virtual modelling as computer games are still seen as for kids by that generation) rather than assisting with the real thing (which I'd love to, but volunteering opportunities are limited when you've only got an hour or so in the evening) it amazes me how little many of the actual volunteers know about what they're working on. They're not bothered where it came from or what it did, they just want to make it look pretty - which baffles me.

    I've not done a lot of research on diesels, but the DEPG and Andrew Goodman were most helpful (the latter ran up 14901 specially for me so I could record the sounds at Matlock a few years ago) but the diesel boys tend to be more of my generation so maybe understand the train sim content better.

  7. #52

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    I think it’s a matter of which group is more in need of money. I assume the reaction would be different with the “we own 7 deltics and can’t be bothered” society compared to the “we need to rebuild the scrapped pioneer Ivatt diesel loco from scratch” society . But luckily I’ve managed to scrape past with thousands of Flickr shots of both preserved and in-service locos, along with plenty of drawings. It helps that I’m more into the obscure locos such as the AC electrics and Metrovicks, etc. who don’t have quite as large of a following - the group having a smaller following (and proportionally, ego ) helps.

  8. #53

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    Thinking about it that broadly bears out my experience - the DEPG isn't a large group in terms of membership - but they have got a good, well managed fleet and depot.

    The other issue I'm sure you've found also is that what the drawing office issued isn't necessarily what the works decided to build.....

    Metro-Vicks, ye gods. What do I have to do to get you into some decent traction? A Western would pull one of those backwards on only one engine - BTW did you know it was the only BR diesel specifically designed to match the Mk1 profile? hint, hint

  9. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2995Valliant View Post
    Metro-Vicks, ye gods. What do I have to do to get you into some decent traction? A Western would pull one of those backwards on only one engine - BTW did you know it was the only BR diesel specifically designed to match the Mk1 profile? hint, hint
    Well in terms of decent traction I have been working on a Class 40 and Stanier (leaving the term general since most of the Stanier lineage can easily be adapted from, prioritizing the Black 5 and Coronation), but those are much more scrutinized since they were over ten-fold more common in number, and ten-fold more commonly spotted on the railways - giving a 'hundred-fold factor' of nit-picky rivet counters, as opposed to the humber EE Class 83.

    I've always fancied a hydraulic and it would have been the Hymek, but...
    https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...120&height=630
    https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...120&height=630
    https://media.discordapp.net/attachm...120&height=630

    It seems that you are really into hydraulics, and this talented modeler on the Trainz discord channel can really get modeling details down - it seems to be research and reference material he needs help with. I'd sent him a hazy photo I found online of D7018's bogies and transmission after the body was lifted off - he was then able to swap out the traction motors for the intriguing transmission. It might be worth it to get in touch with him? You could help iron out any uncertainties and help out with the mesh, depending on his patience!

  10. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom, Tallington - Peterborough
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    Quote Originally Posted by EverTrainz View Post
    I think it’s a matter of which group is more in need of money. I assume the reaction would be different with the “we own 7 deltics and can’t be bothered” society compared to the “we need to rebuild the scrapped pioneer Ivatt diesel loco from scratch” society . But luckily I’ve managed to scrape past with thousands of Flickr shots of both preserved and in-service locos, along with plenty of drawings. It helps that I’m more into the obscure locos such as the AC electrics and Metrovicks, etc. who don’t have quite as large of a following - the group having a smaller following (and proportionally, ego ) helps.
    Just putting in a friendly information adjustment. No one owns seven Deltics.

    The groups are -

    National Railway Museum - 55002 Maintained by myself and other engineers in fact we looked after all the NRM diesels fleet class 37,1023 etc. ( Not prototype HST ) NRM now don't want to use their diesels so just gathering dust and in bits due to pervious paid incompetent engineer

    Locomotive Services Ltd - 55016 & 22 Both out of action due to being sold by pervious owner in a useless condition. Hopefully 55022 will be back.

    Deltic Preservations Society

    55009 (9009) Massive electrical fault on a railtour out of Edinburgh last year which I was on the loco at the time. Has now made us penniless. Six figure sum to repair

    55015 having a complete rebuild including body.

    55019 The only Deltic out of 7 locos which is in operational condition of which I'm the Loco Manager for.

    Which bogies do you wish were under the class 23 Baby Deltic ?

    Cheers
    Stuart

    Single handed ECML Project Manager of Kings Cross - Edinburgh and Edinburgh - Dundee

  11. #56

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    Hello Stuart - my post was not a dig at anyone and was purely hypothetical. I'd used the Deltics as an example as they are one of the best-preserved (proportionally to how many were produced) and have rightly built up a cult following - debatably, can be said for most EE locos. Take in direct contrast to the NBL Warship project - not even a body to cut and shut, everything must be engineered from scratch apart from the engine. Not even as if these locos had a following or niche interest group in the first place. I believe that one of their fundraisers included a diagram book that provided reproduced works drawings of the original locomotives for modellers/general enthusiasts, but don't quote me on that! It was either the NBL project or the Ivatt 10000 project - both of which are monumental undertakings that require a lot of time and resources. These groups are not as well-off as other scratch-build projects like the various steam loco builds that have enough of a "crowd appeal" that they won't lose steam, so to speak.

    It is indeed sad but unavoidable how much it takes to maintain a locomotive - six figures for an electrical malfunction? I thought LSL sold off one of the Deltics, suppose not.

    About the Baby Deltic bogies, the best chance to re-bogey is when someone comes along and creates a new Class 20 model. I don't know who made the 2004 Class 20 it was quite nice for its time, but looks old these days. I haven't done enough research but it seems that the bogeys of the Class 20 would be a minefield in their own right.

  12. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    United Kingdom, Tallington - Peterborough
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    Quote Originally Posted by

    It is indeed sad but unavoidable how much it takes to maintain a locomotive - six figures for an electrical malfunction? I thought LSL sold off one of the Deltics, suppose not.

    About the Baby Deltic bogies, the best chance to re-bogey is when someone comes along and creates a new Class 20 model. I don't know who made the 2004 Class 20 it was quite nice for its time, but looks old these days. I haven't done enough research but it seems that the [URL="https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/152810-class-20-bogie-details/"
    bogeys of the Class 20 would be a minefield in their own right[/URL].
    Hi Ron

    D9009 will need extra funding to see it haul trains again.

    55016 still owned by LSL but gone into long term storage down at Margate - the old Hornby factory

    Yes some interesting diesel rebuild projects being undertaken. But will be very difficult for the normal preserved diesels surviving with some classes like the 37's being so many. Some preserved diesels have already gone for scrap so needs active and armchair enthusiast supporting groups. 99.99% of groups are very naïve regarding simulators and very narrowminded not looking at the bigger picture because owning their locos takes up so much time in the first place.

    Cheers
    Stuart

  13. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    United States of America, IN, Griffith
    Posts
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    I agree with the bulk of the opinions out here on UK Content. It's one of the biggest groups of Trainz users and if N3V wants to make some money from them then it would be prudent to take a survey of what kind of content they would like to see the same way Camscott did all that while ago. It would be an inexpensive and easy way to sort through what kind of content would be profitiable to produce.

    Currently, the UK Community is split into two home groups. Pre-Grouping and Nationalization. The bulk of the UK Content that has been produced is pretty impressive to say the least. I think there is a serious lacking of diesel traction but it should be relative to the eras people currently model. In my opinion, the BR Class 22s, Class 28s, Class 35s, Class 41s and Class 07 shunters would be great additions to Trainz and aren't properly represented in game yet. As for steam, I think that you should have whoever did the Duchess Class Payware should consider making a similar pack of the Bulleid Pacifics. There are quite a few people who would eat those up - including myself!

    And finally, regarding the PLL. I understand that there are a lot of complex politics going on regarding the Add-On but I think that there should be a future update for TRS19. The Settle and Carlisle line has come all the way from TS2009 and it's still a popular add-on being included with Trainz Bundles to this day. I think it would be a poor decision to overlook such an incredible group of content creators and work in tandem to create more content for future versions of Trainz!

    That's all from me. I truly love this simulator and will continue to purchase it for as long as it exists, but I want to be able to enjoy it as it moves into the future.
    Tanker46

    Member of TCWW - Developer of the Brighton Project

  14. #59

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    I would probably buy PLL for TRS2019, if only to get all the resources. I suspect the biggest challenge getting this to market is N3Vs constant meddling with core code that breaks scripting and associated issues. Even f you get it sorted for the current version, they have a habit of changing something then blame the creators for not keeping up...

    Unfortunately and kind of tied in with the sad news from Stuart about the state of the preserved Deltic fleet, I get the impression that interest in UK heritage traction is a relatively small part of the sim market. This is borne out by looking at the Alan Thomson Facebook page, where the primary focus is on the DTG sim(s) and the majority of people are enthusing about the latest modern plastic trains, than old diesels. And without being unkind to Trainz, DTG probably has the bigger user base when it comes to the likely market for any product which is going to reflect on the willingness of creators to make payware (small reward) or hosting a project to raise money for a cause - such as the Deltics. I doubt a few £hundred is going to repair or replace a flashed over traction motor, for example. Sadly many enthusiasts now see the likes of Class 150's or 158's - even 170's - as the heritage fleet and look upon the old diesels in the same way our generation regarded steam.
    TRS 2019 Coach Class (Former Customer)

  15. #60
    Join Date
    Jun 2020
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    India, Delhi, Delhi
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    From Auran Discord channel -

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