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Thread: TRS19 and Interactive Industries: Update the Discussion in June 2020

  1. #1
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    Default TRS19 and Interactive Industries: Update the Discussion in June 2020

    With over 100 dl'd routes, I've run into a lot of different interactive industries and different levels of configurations. Also, I've spent a lot of time matching rolling stock to product to industry, etc. This has all been met with varied success on other's routes and small experiments on route creation of my own. Some of these routes are originally constructed in T:ANE or TS12 (adjusted through T:ANE and CDP'd into TRS19).

    With due diligence, I have seen all the How-to's, Tutorials, Video, Wiki's, and read through about 500 searched threads of forum and blogs dating back 10 years. Some things explained in the material are spot-on, and some dated things are not clear if they've been resolved or not.

    (BTW, any search for information on Trainz should start with usernames pware, Philskene, JCitron, MSGSapper---Props!)

    For TRS19, what are some of your tips and tricks? Favorite industries and ways to use them? Older (or otherwise) types to avoid? Ways to use CM and picklists when setting up? Fixes and work-arounds?

    Thanks and Regards,

    Blabsky

  2. #2
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    Great topic Blabsky - thanks for posting!

    Could I just add,when talking about industries and commodities to include KUIDs so that other's can find the items more easily. I'd also love to hear how you're setting things up, what rules you're using (if any) etc. (And yes, we know there's plenty of room for improvement in our Waybills etc - one day soon we hope).
    Tony Hilliam

    Got questions about TRS19? Click here for TRS19 FAQs

    Looking for answers to in-game functionality? Click here for help

  3. #3
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    I'm exclusive to 2019 and I'm starting to get into the industry side now that my mainline is established for operation.

    I did play around with some in a staging area, multi industry works well for almost all types. What doesn't work for me is the link rule (sorry I can't remember what it's called but it placed an asset on your route to link up industries for input and output). That doesn't work in 2019.

    I'll be very interested to see what others say as I have also gone through most of the tutorials I can find.

    That link was only required for 1 industry, but I will likely be building my own script that will deal with an entire system like CMTM but of course it will be based on my already programmed RTS fo Run8 V1.

    Thanks

    Sean

  4. #4
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    This is indeed a great topic!

    I believe in KISS with most things especially with Trainz in general. I find configuring the industries to be awfully cumbersome because it also requires going back and configuring the freight cars that go with them. It's too bad they didn't work simply like the stations, meaning the list of acceptable products is available in the passenger cars and that matches the industry. What we have to do now is setup the industry, which varies between who made it, configuring queues, and save it to a session instead of once in a route. That's time consuming enough as it is, and then the process has to be repeated all over again for the various freight cars.

    To add insult to injury, God forbid the session dies and needs to be rebuilt completely because that means redoing this hellish process all over again in both places. It's simple on a small route, but if it's a mega-sized route, it means spending more than an hour or two setting things up between configuring drivers, setting up consists, editing the consists to provide the loads, then going back and spending just as long setting up industries all over again. With one route, I caved and setup a bunch of interactive industries and that took me 3 days to set those up not counting placing the consists, configuring portals, and driver schedules, which added another day or two on top of that.

    With that experience, I run very few interactive industries outside of those that actually show something. I'll have plenty of passenger trains for the stations and configure coalmines, power plants, and anything else that shows a visible product, but all the rest of the freight cars and industries carry or produce "stuff". By stuff I mean anything that will load with instant load to give the freight cars some weight, but no necessarily the goods meant for the industries.

    This was never my intention, but this is what it came down to with my years of experience since interactive industries were introduced back in TRS2004, and the system has remained static and unchanged since ca. 2004 or going on 16 years ago now.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  5. #5
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    Keeping it simple is the only avenue for this inexperienced operator.

    How I work with Industry in Sessions: Most of the N3V DL routes have built-in sessions, most of the DLS free routes do not. Also, many of the routes were T:ANE or (T:ANE-processed) TS12s, so my assumption was any sessions may be problematic. Additionally, most of the time I would clone a route to examine it, and every route wants a session. These become "XXXroute-Working Session," and any time I open a route for editing it is Edit the Session. In the Session layer is added a 'Consist" layer for all motive power and rolling stock. In Edit the Session, I always add Start Option rule mostly to have the clock run when operating. I also add Driver commands, including the Instant Load varieties, the Drive and Navigate rules, Delete Train and Reverse Tram.

    This becomes the only session I have for most routes. I'll add locos and rolling stock and configure a little at a time, leaving appropriate cars close to industries or in yards. Using the UDS to go back and forth is easy because I am not trying to win points or achievements. Cntrl-F1, Cntrl-F2, Cntrl-F1, Save, rinse and repeat. Start time is often in the morning, and I just save along the way, run trains around and, if need be, restart the rules with trains staged about the route.

    Depending on how the route is set up, a Save may only be the session; rolling stock and industries embedded in the route layer may require a Route save. I make sure to overwrite both the route and the 'working session' in the save. Trains in motion and their commands will continue until you halt them or Reset Rules in the Session edit.

    Doing this has simplified how I operate on the routes. Using CM, filter Routes and Sessions, choose the "Petticoat Junction Route-Working Session," Open, Edit Asset in Surveyor. Cntrl-F2, All Aboard.
    Last edited by C_Blabsky; June 6th, 2020 at 02:46 PM.

  6. #6
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    KISS is the name of the game when dealing with AI. They can be like herding cats and flies at the same time so you want to keep things to the least common denominator. You'll see what I mean as you gain experience. Back when I first started with this, I went all out with all kinds of configured stuff, bellz, hornz, lights, neon blinking baloney, and found all it did was get in the way. Now I don't run bare baseboards, but I ensure I have fairly good control over the operations. As I said, the AI are like herding cats and flies at the same time.

    Your cloning and setting up works. However, if you want a permanent session for complex operations, you may want to setup a "Base session" and then use that with all the industry queues configured as well as any signals, portals and ATLS crossings. Basically get that stuff setup, and configure the stuff that won't ever change.

    Now for operating sessions, clone that "Base Session", or open and do a save as and give it a new name. Use this one for your rolling-stock and driver commands. You can create different sessions based on the original for other driving situations or activities.

    I have rarely if ever done much with the built-in routes except when checking out the new Trainz versions, or when I first got Trainz back in December 2003 just a day or two after Christmas that year. After I pulled apart the stuff I either downloaded or built-in and investigated, I went about creating my own routes. I still have my original route, and a more modern spin-off I've been rebuilding to better standards. I still laugh quite loudly out loud at my original track work. I had the kernel of a theme and idea there, but the techniques were horrid! Well I thought they were great back then.
    Last edited by JCitron; June 6th, 2020 at 03:03 PM.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  7. #7
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    My first track profile looked like an EKG.


    Here's one of the latest industry infomercials, from the good Sergeant:

    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...&highlight=BI3
    Last edited by C_Blabsky; June 7th, 2020 at 04:06 PM. Reason: spellingz

  8. #8
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    I've set up a route consisting of a yard and long approaches and run-arounds to a number of industy sites. I've started connecting Built-in but Not Payware assets, and of course there is a number of these industry types. I thought it best to start with these before jumping into the other 200 industries in the content folder. If I have any deep revelations I'll post the KUIDs and any comments.

    When is an industry not an industry? A number of assets seem to have no actual purpose other than scenery.

    I seem to have issues with Multiple_Industry_New <kuid:25:1224> Is this an older asset, supplanted by the Multi Ind str (10,20,60) 2:102376:6303: (1:4, 2:2, 3:3)?

    LARS IndustRail v4 <kuid2:69871:2233:1> , Multiple Industry <kuid:25:73>, and Multiple Industry basic <kuid:25:74> all worked with a variety of cars in DCC manual stopping and AI drive-to orders. I haven't tried to adjust any parameters for the commodities, as I think the basic ones are built in.

    Regards,

    Blabsky
    Last edited by C_Blabsky; June 7th, 2020 at 06:45 PM. Reason: grammarz

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Blabsky View Post
    I've set up a route consisting of a yard and long approaches and run-arounds to a number of industy sites. I've started connecting Built-in but Not Payware assets, and of course there is a number of these industry types. I thought it best to start with these before jumping into the other 200 industries in the content folder. If I have any deep revelations I'll post the KUIDs and any comments.

    When is an industry not and industry? A number of assets seem to have no actual purpose other than scenery.

    I seem to have issues with Multiple_Industry_New <kuid:25:1224> Is this an older asset, supplanted by the Multi Ind str (10,20,60) 2:102376:6303: (1:4, 2:2, 3:3)?

    LARS IndustRail v4 <kuid2:69871:2233:1> , Multiple Industry <kuid:25:73>, and Multiple Industry basic <kuid:25:74> all worked with a variety of cars in DCC manual stopping and AI drive-to orders. I haven't tried to adjust any parameters for the commodities, as I think the basic ones are built in.

    Regards,

    Blabsky
    There are non-interactive industries, meaning they're just buildings without any interactive, meaning scripted, attached track assets. Stations are both interactive and non-interactive just the same, and can be considered an industry even if they're called stations. A non-interactive industry can be made interactive by placing a basic industry fixed-track-object in front of the buildings. Keep in mind, however, there are some non-interactive industries with a fixed track attached. These are a different animal altogether, and the track is there to fix the spacing for the loading dock and serve no other purpose.

    The MIN assets are complex to set up from what I remember from sometime ago. Avoid the JR MIN industries due to some script problems, but the SAP industries work well. LARS too have some nice features such as leaving freight cars on a siding until a set period of time rather than the need for a locomotive to be attached.

    To know if that MIN In str is older, you need to post the KUID number along with the build. The smaller the build number, obviously is the older asset. Also within the same build are :x numbers. these suffixes on the end of a KUID2 asset are the version numbers. These increment so the older asset will be something less than the most recent version.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  10. #10
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    I didn't know that about LARS that you can leave the cars without attaching. That is something I may have to reconsider for 2019 (if it works well with that still?). I just downloaded some BI3 I think they are from the Sarge that looks like will work well with 2019. I'm also thinking about using CMTM4 though it has it's own issues with 2019 though apparently works for 5 of the 7 days or something.

    I just finished building the route to a major interchange so for me it's decision time what I'm going to use. I have humps, staging, portals, and quick commodity industries at both staging (so that I can get some loaded cars quickly assembled to a train). Online so far I only will need a place to offload lumber, Vinyl Monomer while being able to load Vinyl Plastic and pipe loads on bulkhead flats with stakes.

    I would also love to figure out some of the interactive elements and try to build script for them. Having an interactive pipe loader would be nice, but it's hard to get footage of how this is done. Lumber unloading would also be nice. The monomer unloading is not that big of a deal. I've seen some fuel unloaders that look cool and all but I don't think there is really much to see in the process. The vinyl plastic I could probably use a grain loader industry, as I've seen this load. Basically the plastic shoots 2 streams at a time into 1 of the 8 caps in a centerflow covered hopper.

    One other final thing that I would simply LOVE to figure out is slowing down the actual loading or unloading process. I'm the type that as I said with LARS is very inviting to see a car left on a siding that takes hours to load or unload. But I know I can do these delays in rules, as I've done them. However I just don't want to delay the load or unload process, instead I want to slow down the process. So that when you happen to be observing an industry in between train runs while I clean the house lets say. I can keep it viewed on the industry as a car is loading or unloading. Perhaps having my trackmobile do these a car at a time until the process is complete.

    I simply don't want to drive up to an industry like I'm an LTL 53 foot trailer, back into a dock, and watch my truck instantly load or unload That's what I have Euro truck simulator for.

    Thanks for any advice.

    Sean

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    I frequently use <kuid:-25:1224> Multiple_Industry_New in most of my routes as it is easy to configure this interactive industry asset to produce or to consume almost any of the bewildering array of goods/ commodities that Trainz offers. (Click on the Plus [+] sign to drop down a dizzying list of options)
    By embedding this short section of track on a siding or loop somewhere and attaching highly-detailed (static) building assets that represent the type of industry or warehouse desired, you can produce your own custom interactive industry combinations to suit the complex AI freight delivery and pickup operations of your dreams.
    Running AI driver scenarios for hours on end without the need for human intervention with multiple MINS and other interactive industries requires close attention to production and consumption rates, initial queue sizes and timings/ waits, etc., especially if you set them up to be interdependent.
    What I love about the <kuid:-25:1224> Multiple_Industry_New is that you can have multiple queues and multiple products all serviced from a single track loading and unloading a broad array of freight wagons, many of which are beautifully animated to display their loads/ clouds of dust etc., which augments the pleasure of witnessing such delivery and pickup ops from on high when the consists arrive at the MIN on the command schedule.
    My non-MIN favourite interactive industries that are built-in include ancient assets such as Seaport, Airport, Hyde Pulp Mill Rebuild, CHN Container Yard Basic, Oil Refinery & Oil Field. These offer rich opportunities for dependable matching freight operations over vast route distances.
    Last edited by PC_Ace; June 8th, 2020 at 07:19 AM.

  12. #12
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    I didn't think MIN has clouds of dust etc. Wonder if it's low graphic settings. I've seen it with other loaders for some reason.

    Thanks

    Sean

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    Nope - it is mostly the scripted, animated freight wagons (grain hoppers, woodchip gondolas and coal wagons, etc.) plus interactive industries like Coal Mine Basic and Timber Mill etc. that do this. The MIN itself does not display loads or particle clouds/ emissions.
    Always run my sim with all the graphics quality settings turned right up, so not sure if less is displayed at lower settings, but I'm sure that visible loads like General Goods will display when loaded even at lower VQ settings.
    Last edited by PC_Ace; June 8th, 2020 at 04:37 PM.

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    After examining a few of MSGSapper's BI3 types, and seeing how he set them up, I revisited using the
    <kuid:-25:1224> Multiple_Industry_New and had good success. This has been a great help in understanding some of the industries on the routes, as it is listed as a Dependency in over 40 of my routes. At the same time, I had a track going to a Multiple_Industry_New (short track) <kuid2:458053:101007:1> and managed to configure that successfully.

    Perhaps some of the more advanced features can cause a stumble, but I feel better equipped to configure one of these types of industries as I explore routes. With the UDS, after Creating a Session with a train and starting to drive, I can check out an industry coming up, switch to Surveyor, make the industry and rolling stock ready, Save and Overwrite Session, then switch back to Driver. When I'm done driving around, switching out product, disturbing the neighborhood with horn and bell, I always switch to Surveyor and make some change to the Session and save by Overwriting the Session (not save in Driver). Next time to visit the route, there's already some configuration done and consists present. With many routes to enjoy, this at least allows some operation without spending hours figuring out everything.

    I'm also looking forward to finding out about loading-without-loco, time delays, Proto-Lars. Again, thanks to contributors on this thread. I know it may be old hat to most, but there are some other rookies whom it may help.

    So back to my little industry demo route for more fun. I have over 1100 industries listed in CM.





  15. #15
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    I've been using Philskene's Industrail V4 and it is absolutely amazing. Unfortunately I haven't had much luck editing and submitting new products which he encourages in the config.txt

    This is the error I'm getting.

    Validating <kuid2:69871:2233:1>
    *.texture.txt is missing texture resource 'black-black-texture'
    *.texture.txt is missing texture resource 'black.texture'

    This happens even if I use the same products he already has in the asset. I haven't debugged the texture.txt resource further as of yet.

    Thanks

    Sean

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