Looking for British items

fant_autentico

Well-known member
Good evening, I am looking for some British items.

The photo that I show is of a Spanish RR more or less in 1880-1890 and I would like to know if there is in Trainz the van and the "saddel tank" locomotive without cabin
(0-2-0T built by Sharp).

Thank you very much in advance for any information.

Regards, Javier

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The short answer Javier is 'No'. Some cabless 19th century engines do exist, but they are payware and made originally for TS2004 & TS2006. None of them are a saddle tank of the kind you are looking for. As to the 4 wheel full brake type (luggage van) I seriously want one just like that myself.
 
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Hello Javier, the expert might be kotangagirl. Sharp Roberts and Company (1828 - 1843), Sharp Brothers (1843 - 1852) and Sharp Stewart & Company (1952 - 1903) built 5,088 locomotives over 75 years, so it is a challenge.

In my opinion, A Sharp's saddle tank with a cab plate rather than a cab places it in the period 1855 - 1870, but then it could be an earlier locomotive rebuilt in this style between 1855 - 1870, with a completely different appearance before that if it was new in the period 1840 - 50. Many early locomotives from the 1840s and 1850s were rebuilt in the 1860s, 1870s and 1880s, sometimes being very different. An 1863 Sharps Stewart 0-4-0 tender engine built for the Furness Railway in England (works number 1440) spent many years as an 0-4-0 Saddle tank at a steel works before being restored to a resemblance to its 1863 appearance (a modern steel boiler, modern safety valves and automatic train brakes though, since it hauls passenger trains and those things were not available in 1863).

Very unlikely that an exact model is available on the DLS since pre-1880 locomotives are very rare on the DLS. Is it Spanish broad gauge? Nawlins produced some Great Western Broad Gauge saddle tank locomotives a very long time ago. Search the DLS for user Nawlins, GWR Mars BG, GWR Remus BG, GWR Romulus BG and GWR Sylvia BG. Kotangagirl had Camscott build a GWR BG 4-4-0 ST and it is available as freeware through the Darlington Works webpage. I think it is B&ER 4-4-0T
https://darlington-works.weebly.com/freeware.html
The coach appears to be a full brake type (luggage van), possibly an old carriage used on passenger trains but it does not look as old as the locomotive.
 
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Yes it's a difficult time period in Trainz because so much is missing from what was a fascinating period of loco development and innovation. Pre-1900 saddle tanks are rare beasts and the only two standard gauge cabless saddle tank I know of are an outside framed 0-6-0 and an inside framed 2-4-0 from the 1850-60 era made for TS2004/TS2006. Both are larger than the 'Sharpie' 0-4-0 in your photos.
As borderreiver has mentioned there are a some Broad Gauge saddle tanks for Trainz, but none are 0-4-0s and most are quite large due to the wider 7ft gauge. The ones by Nawlins are very old models now with simple one colour texturing and very basic detailing. Steve Flanders's 'Bogie class' saddle tanks (Corsair & Brigand) are 4-4-0ST's and are more detailed, but were originally made for TS2004. The B&ER 4-4-0ST I commissioned from Camscott is made for TS2019 and based on all the presently available data for these engines and made to a high level of detail. As nice as it is I don't think it's what you're looking for.

The full brake type (luggage van) has a vaguely N.E.R. look to it around the duckets, but as I mentioned there's no 4 wheeled van like that available for Trainz.
 
Yes it's a difficult time period in Trainz because so much is missing from what was a fascinating period of loco development and innovation. Pre-1900 saddle tanks are rare beasts and the only two standard gauge cabless saddle tank I know of are an outside framed 0-6-0 and an inside framed 2-4-0 from the 1850-60 era made for TS2004/TS2006. Both are larger than the 'Sharpie' 0-4-0 in your photos.
As borderreiver has mentioned there are a some Broad Gauge saddle tanks for Trainz, but none are 0-4-0s and most are quite large due to the wider 7ft gauge. The ones by Nawlins are very old models now with simple one colour texturing and very basic detailing. Steve Flanders's 'Bogie class' saddle tanks (Corsair & Brigand) are 4-4-0ST's and are more detailed, but were originally made for TS2004. The B&ER 4-4-0ST I commissioned from Camscott is made for TS2019 and based on all the presently available data for these engines and made to a high level of detail. As nice as it is I don't think it's what you're looking for.

The full brake type (luggage van) has a vaguely N.E.R. look to it around the duckets, but as I mentioned there's no 4 wheeled van like that available for Trainz.


I seem to recall I did the mesh for a few early board gauge locos just to have a very simple broad gauge loco that worked. GWR Romulus BG was one. I worked closely with Chris and I suspect he reskinned one of mine.

Cheerio John
 
Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
First of all, I appreciate the responses to my request.
Last night I was looking in my files and books where I found some more information.

It is not easy to find information on such old companies but I have had some luck. The photos I put correspond to the construction of the GSSR (Great Southern of Spain Railway), then LBA (Lorca-Baza-Aguilas). Two small broad gauge (1,668mm) locomotives were used in its construction, Sharp & Stewart 0-4-0 (0-2-0) factory numbers 3476 and 3477; its owner was Hett, Maylor & Co. I have not found the measurements but if another photo in which it looks better, with wheels that I would say 1,200 or 1,300 mm in diameter.


SS-101.jpg


Above the baggage van, the GSSR transformed 7 passenger coaches (built by Ashbury) into vans. From what I have seen in a couple of books the transformation was not the same in all of them (there are at least 3 versions) and this one in the photo seems more like an inspection coache. The measurement between buffers 8,090 mm and between axes 3,658 mm, I do not know its width and height, the tare 10.05 T and the maximum load 3.0 T. It seems that his painting was green at the beginning although of they appear painted in cream-green or cream-brown.


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In Trainz

Since there are no such models in Trainz, I will make them. First the van and later the locomotive, probably 1,435 gauge. This is why I have another question: is there a train bogie like the locomotive in Trainz?.
Finally I put some links on this railway that may be of interest to you.

Regards

Javier

http://www.gssr.es/history_locos.php

https://www.spanishrailway.com/the-great-southern-of-spain-railway-cº-ltd-lorca-a-baza-y-aguilas/
 
Hello Javier. I have had a quick read about the GSSR and see that Hett Maylor were bankrupted by problems with subcontractors, the Marquis of Loring being the largest.
I have gone looking for the works numbers 3476 and 3477.

Some images of Sharp Stewart & Company works plates of other locomotives can give an idea of when they were constructed, though works numbers 3476 and 3477 are a lot later than I thought they would be.

1863 - No. 1448 Atlas Works Manchester
1870 - No. 2048 Atlas Works Manchester "Duke of Normandy" 2-4-0T http://lightmoor.co.uk/books/archive-issue-47/ARCH47
1873 - No. 2298 Atlas Works Manchester
1876 - No. 2643 Atlas Works Manchester
1880 - No. 2896 Atlas Works Manchester
1889 - No. 3520 Atlas Works Manchester
1894 - No. 4022 Atlas Works Glasgow
1897 - No. 4302 Atlas Works Glasgow
1897 - No. 4322 Atlas Works Glasgow
1900 - No. 4670 Atlas Works Glasgow
1903 - No. 4981 Atlas Works Glasgow

So, your 3476 and 3477 were turned out of Glasgow circa 1888, which would mean Hett Maylor bought new locomotives for the construction (perhaps they had no other choice with 1668mm gauge). Buying new locomotives cannot have helped their finances with bidding to build the line for a fixed price. The design appears quite old for 1888, though if Sharp Stewart were working to Hett Maylor wanting the most locomotive for the least price they may have cut the specification, with the cab protection being the cost-cutting ("no need of protection from rain in Almeria mr Stewart!")
 
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Hello Javier. I have had a quick read about the GSSR and see that Hett Maylor were bankrupted by problems with subcontractors, the Marquis of Loring being the largest.
I have gone looking for the works numbers 3476 and 3477.

Some images of Sharp Stewart & Company works plates of other locomotives can give an idea of when they were constructed, though works numbers 3476 and 3477 are a lot later than I thought they would be.

1863 - No. 1448 Atlas Works Manchester
1870 - No. 2048 Atlas Works Manchester "Duke of Normandy" 2-4-0T http://lightmoor.co.uk/books/archive-issue-47/ARCH47
1873 - No. 2298 Atlas Works Manchester
1876 - No. 2643 Atlas Works Manchester
1880 - No. 2896 Atlas Works Manchester
1889 - No. 3520 Atlas Works Manchester
1894 - No. 4022 Atlas Works Glasgow
1897 - No. 4302 Atlas Works Glasgow
1897 - No. 4322 Atlas Works Glasgow
1900 - No. 4670 Atlas Works Glasgow
1903 - No. 4981 Atlas Works Glasgow

So, your 3476 and 3477 were turned out of Glasgow circa 1888, which would mean Hett Maylor bought new locomotives for the construction (perhaps they had no other choice with 1668mm gauge). Buying new locomotives cannot have helped their finances with bidding to build the line for a fixed price. The design appears quite old for 1888, though if Sharp Stewart were working to Hett Maylor wanting the most locomotive for the least price they may have cut the specification, with the cab protection being the cost-cutting ("no need of protection from rain in Almeria mr Stewart!")

Thank you for expanding the information.
It is true that in Almeria it hardly rains and with the heat in summer, the engineer and the stoker surely appreciated not having a cabin.
On the design older than that of the time of construction of the RR, it will surely be for what you say, although it looks like a smaller gauge locomotive adapted to 1,668 at the factory.


Cheers
 
I have found in my books the measurements of a similar saddel tank, it can be one of the two from the GSSR transferred to the Triano RR.
In addition, the GSSR had mogul locomotives that I have found in trainz and I have also seen carriages that are a bit similar to those of GSSR, "GWR 4whell pv" and composite, the author is skipper1945.


Regards


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