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Thread: Found a bug... AI drivers can flip junctions even if they're stopped on the points.

  1. #1
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    Default Found a bug... AI drivers can flip junctions even if they're stopped on the points.

    Just as the title says. I saw this awhile ago and reported it, but could never confirm what happened and thought it was a typical happens once so you'll never find it again type of thing. I then saw it occur again recently on one of my routes. I was switching some freight cars in my yard and my AI driver was stopped on top of the junction that he was supposed to switch and head down to pickup some tank cars. He took the couple command, flipped the junction lever and continued on as if nothing happened.

    Well I confirmed it again and this time I have evidence.

    Here's the video showing the AI flipping the switch:
    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkuzBzLIoTefga02...CDzEg?e=eClLRJ


    Here's my feeble attempt at showing a human driver trying the same thing and losing.
    https://1drv.ms/v/s!AkuzBzLIoTefga03...xZmNg?e=oYRRqe
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  2. #2
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    Default

    I submitted a bug report as well.

    I guess this thread fell to the crickets...

    https://youtu.be/xnMI64kXQA8
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  3. #3
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    Default

    Sorry John,
    I am of the habbit of reading threads but not replying, as are most of the readers probably, things like this junction issue will affect members at some point and they will be pleased that you've made your posts about it.
    You get used to people not replying, I used to put threads up of every item I created, even with screenshots, but got very few replies of appreciation or encouragement (with the exception of a handful of regulars).
    My assets might be a load of cr@p but without comments how would I know, and in your case here how do you know if you've helped someone or not?
    We should all reply to threads more!

  4. #4
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    Default

    I did not respond because I use AI very little. If the AI has a track permit, I assume it can switch the junction whenever it pleases. I think the points are a visual creation, and the system doesn't really care about their exact location.

    I got very few comments for the rules and commands I have uploaded over the years. I think it is like charity work, it tends to have to be its own reward.
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  5. #5
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    Default

    If the junctions themselves are decorative, then why can't we flip them as we see fit even if our locomotives are sitting right on top of them. We are instead presented with that dreaded locked junction and padlock floating overhead. The AI instead just flips the points without issue, not even derailing, and continues on without issue. Thinking about this now, I wonder if this is the cause of some of our other problems with consists derailing especially when there are long consists. The AI will try the junctions to see if it can take control of them and even if there's another consist sitting on top, the timing could be perfect enough to derail that other train.

    Well a charity this is and a big one too and I've given more than my share. I rarely ask for help and when I do it's usually met with crickets. I've been thinking perhaps it's time to move on and let people here fend for themselves. They seem to be happy enough looking for missing dependencies for Thomas stuff they can't get.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  6. #6
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    If the junctions themselves are decorative, then why can't we flip them as we see fit even if our locomotives are sitting right on top of them. We are instead presented with that dreaded locked junction and padlock floating overhead. The AI instead just flips the points without issue, not even derailing, and continues on without issue. Thinking about this now, I wonder if this is the cause of some of our other problems with consists derailing especially when there are long consists. The AI will try the junctions to see if it can take control of them and even if there's another consist sitting on top, the timing could be perfect enough to derail that other train.

    Well a charity this is and a big one too and I've given more than my share. I rarely ask for help and when I do it's usually met with crickets. I've been thinking perhaps it's time to move on and let people here fend for themselves. They seem to be happy enough looking for missing dependencies for Thomas stuff they can't get.

    I doubt that anyone on the forum can help you much with this junction issue. It would have to come from the N3V coders who are familiar with the native code behind the permit and other systems.

    My thought about junctions, and I am only speculating, is that the "tracks" that trains follow are simply a set of coordinates of zero width somewhere in a data structure. I doubt this data structure looks like what we see as a junction.
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  7. #7
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    I worked with the QA Team and the issue has been passed on to the developers to have a look at.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

  8. #8
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    yes... a long standing problem in Trainz.



    AI train moving into the yard just severed 2 of it's cars by throwing the switches under them. Rest of the train keeps going.

  9. #9
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    Yeah that's the best! (snark).

    I was told that the AI flipping levers under the locked junction it is sitting on is by design. It's amazing watching a switcher slide with the points as the AI adjusts its route and continues on.

    My answer was... In reference to the locked junctions, which seem to only apply to human drivers and not AI.

    I can see why the devs don’t want the AI to derail while crabbing on some points, but they should sit there and complain that they can’t get to their destination, whether that’s coupling to some coach or freight car somewhere, a track mark, or other place. This is a common enough occurrence when a junction is missing a lever, a track is broken, or a direction marker is facing the wrong way.

    If you think about it, that would be a lot more realistic instead of the big hand coming in and moving the locomotive. Heck why not animate a big hand coming in to re-rail the trains too when they jump the tracks! The program was once promoted as a model railroad simulator so why not since that would be most fitting in that case.


    So let's see where this goes...
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 106618

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