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Thread: The North Eastern Railway BTP Steam Autocars

  1. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    United Kingdom

    Default The July 1926 L.N.E.R. N.E. Area Carriage Roster

    Set 342 Starbeck Shed

    Starts the day at 7.42 am at Starbeck, running to Harrogate at 7.42 am.
    Ends the day at 10.20 pm W.S.X.
    12.04 am W.S.O. all at Starbeck.

    Operates between Harrogate and Knaresborough on the Knaresborough shuttle with one late trip to Melmerby W.S.O..

    Starbeck depart 7.42 am
    Harrogate arrive 7.51 am

    Harrogate depart 8.05 am, 8.42 am, 9.28 am, 10.25 am, 11.17 am, and 12.04 pm
    Journey time 10 minutes.

    Knaresborough depart 8.22 am, 9.02 am, 9.43 am, 10.41 am, 11.40 am, and 12.28 pm

    Journey time 11 minutes.

    Harrogate arrive 12.39 pm

    Harrogate depart 12.58 pm
    Starbeck arrive 1.03 pm
    Starbeck depart 1.45 pm
    Harrogate arrive 1.50 pm
    Harrogate depart 2.00 pm *
    Knaresborough arrive 2.10 pm
    Knaresborough depart 2.18 pm
    Harrogate arrive 2.29 pm

    Harrogate depart 2.45 pm, 3.28 pm, and 4.15 pm

    Journey time 10 minutes.

    Knaresborough depart 3.10 pm, 3.44 pm, and 4.34 pm *

    Journey time 11 minutes.

    Harrogate arrive 4.45 pm

    Harrogate depart 5.15 pm *
    Knaresborough arrive 5.25 pm
    Knaresborough depart 5.45 pm *
    Harrogate arrive 5.56 pm

    Harrogate depart 6.00 pm * S.O.
    Knaresborough arrive 6.10 pm S.O.
    Knaresborough depart 6.25 pm * S.O.
    Harrogate arrive 6.36 pm S.O.

    Harrogate depart 6.47 pm, 7.20 pm, 7.50 pm and 8.35 pm
    Journey time 10 minutes.
    Knaresborough depart 7.02 pm, 7.35 pm, 8.07 pm and 9.00 pm
    Journey time 11 minutes.
    Harrogate arrive 9.11 pm
    Harrogate depart 10.00 pm
    Knaresborough arrive 10.10 pm

    Knaresborough depart 10.15 pm W.S.X
    Starbeck arrive 10.20 pm W.S.X

    Knaresborough depart 10.15 pm W.S.O.
    Harrogate arrive 10.27 pm W.S.O.

    Harrogate depart 10.35 pm W.O.
    Knaresborough arrive 10.40 pm W.O.

    Knaresborough depart 10.48 pm W.O. Empty Stock
    Harrogate arrive 10.57 pm W.O.

    Harrogate depart 10.30 pm S.O.
    Knaresborough arrive 10.43 pm S.O.

    Knaresborough depart 10.47 pm S.O. Empty Stock
    Harrogate arrive 10.58 pm S.O.

    Harrogate depart 11.00 pm W.S.O.
    Melmerby arrive 11.32 pm W.S.O.
    Melmerby depart 11.40 pm W.S.O. Empty Stock
    Starbeck arrive 12.04 am W.SO.

    Symbol * in notes “XB attached W.O.”
    Washed and cleaned at Harrogate as convenient.
    Works Daily.
    Cars are taken out of traffic as necessary for special cleaning.

    The main operational question to resolve is how the steam autocar left the trailing WT at Knaresborough at 2.10 pm and at Harrogate at 5.56 pm. There is also the question of how it retrieved the WT at Knaresborough between 4.25 pm and 4.34 pm. The station at Knaresborough is plain double track. There was a trailing crossover on Knaresborough viaduct to the west of the station and another to the east of Knaresborough tunnel at Knaresborough Junction. The tunnel commenced almost at the eastern end of the station platforms. There is a trailing connection from the eastern tunnel portal to the coal depot but the 1907 OS 25 inch to the mile map is unclear as to whether this was also single trailing slip. Therefore, the steam autocar had the facility and what is more the length of track available to run round the WT on the York bound line at Knaresborough Junction. With the WT now at the York end of the train, the steam autocar could then draw the WT across the trailing crossover to the Starbeck bound line and from there propel it in to the headshunt of the goods yard (or merely in to the loop by the goods shed if no goods working was expected), leaving it there for retrieval around 4.30 pm. That retrieval would leave it at the rear of the Harrogate bound train.

    At Harrogate between 4.45 pm and 5.15 pm the steam autocar would need to run round the WT, as it would at Knaresborough between 5.25 pm and 5.45 pm.

    Other passenger train movements at Knaresborough at these times: 2.00 pm Pilmoor and Boroughbridge to Harrogate, and the 4.04 pm York to Harrogate. These would only be an issue if running late.

    The statement about removal for special cleaning seems to indicate that neither York nor Leeds districts held either a spare BTP or Driving Van Composites in order to cover maintenance.

    Set 392 to follow
    Last edited by borderreiver; November 30th, 2020 at 06:32 AM. Reason: Formatting

  2. #17
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Australia, NSW, North Richmond


    When setting up the BTP timetable schedule between Harrogate and Knaresborough I intended to add the XB.
    Your above discussion has prompted me to finalise that addition.
    I have placed an XB at Harrogate in the siding nearest to the North platform sidings.
    I have looked at Knaresborough and you are correct there is a siding adjacent to the Coal Staithes, there is also one on the Pillmoor line at the York junction.
    As the return departure time from Knaresborough to Harrogate is late in the day I will have to wait and see how the timing goes.
    In the meantime here are a couple of images of the three locations.

  3. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    United Kingdom

    Default The July 1926 L.N.E.R. N.E. Area Carriage Roster

    Set 392 Hull Botanic Gardens Shed
    Starts the day at 5.30 am at Hull Botanic Gardens, running to Beverley ECS, arriving there at 5.45 am.
    Ends the day at 11.48 pm Th.S.X. 12.31 am Th.S.O. all at Hull Botanic Gardens.

    Beverley depart 6.10 am (a)
    Hull arrive 6.27 am
    Hull depart 6.47 am (a)
    Beverley arrive 7.04 am
    Beverley depart 7.15 am (a)
    Hull arrive 7.33 am
    Hull depart 8.02 am (a)
    Beverley arrive 8.19 am
    Beverley depart 8.36 am (b)
    Hull arrive 8.53 am
    Hull depart 9.40 am
    Beverley arrive 9.57 am
    Beverley depart 10.15 am
    Hull arrive 10.32 am

    Hull depart 6.20 pm (c)
    Brough arrive 6.43 pm
    Brough depart 6.56 pm (c)
    Hull arrive 7.17 pm
    Hull depart 7.25 pm
    Brough arrive 7.45 pm
    Brough depart 7.55 pm
    Hull arrive 8.17 pm
    Hull depart 8.25 pm (d)
    Beverley arrive 8.42 pm
    Beverley depart 8.52 pm (d)
    Hull arrive 9.09 pm

    Hull depart 10.50 pm Th.S.X.
    Brough arrive 11.13 pm Th.S.X.
    Brough depart 11.25 pm Th.S.X.
    Hull arrive 11.48 pm

    Hull depart 10.50 pm Th.S.O.
    Goole arrive 11.36 pm Th.S.O.
    Goole depart 11.55 pm Th.S.O.
    Hull arrive 12.31 pm

    Symbol (a) in notes “WT attached”
    Symbol (b) in notes "Set 393 attached"
    Symbol (c) in notes "XC attached S.X."
    Symbol (d) in notes "WT attached S.X., 2 WT S.O."

    Set 393 was a made up set, six carriages, 2x XC, 2x WT, 2x WB. Overnighting at Beverley, the 8.36 am working to Hull with set 392 was the first of the day for the set. It would not return to Beverley until 6.02 pm, though its final working would take it from Hull at 11.0pm. arriving Beverley at 11.17 pm. During the day it would work between Hull and Goole, Brough and Withernsea.

  4. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    United Kingdom

    Default The Railway Magazine July 1905

    The archive of the Railway Magazine from July 1905 has revealed some further information about the BTP Steam autocars.

    "Owing to the success which has attended the steam autocar service between the Hartlepools, the North Eastern Railway has decided to extend it to the new branch - seven miles long - between Gosforth and Ponteland, which opened for traffic on June 1st."

    A single carriage and the BTP 0-4-4T are the standard configuration and it is stated that the loco-carriage combination is never uncoupled. The loco in the accompanying photograph is No. 595 and the Diagram 116 carriage is No. 3272. It also mentions that the engine's cylinders are reduced in size to work the light load more efficiently. I wonder if that was reversed when larger trailing loads evolved in later years?

    "Preparations are being made to extend this system at various other points, and such services will soon be running between Scarborough and Forge Valley, Scarborough and Swainton Dale, as well as between Kettleness and Robin's Hood Bay."

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