CMTM work around 2019 and tane
- Thread starter Hemler
- Start date
So what about CMTM4? I have 2019 and haven't tried CMTM yet. I developed a system called RTS for Run8 that ran the last decade in version 1. I decided not to update it for Version 2.
From what I can see reading the manual CMTM4 will basically just go through a preset list of destinations or movements, and it will be the same every time you get to that day of the week. I haven't seen a place where demand gets randomized. So basically it calls each one in order.
With RTS I used a similar record system but developed a seeded random number generator that pulled waybills based on varying demands within limits. From there is took the XML file that Run8 uses to define a consist. I then calculated what values and arrays would go into the table and rewrote the train XML file (consist). I'm wondering if CMTM4 still works with 2019, if it's possible for me to create a random script generator that makes each session variable (though within familiar limits as complex or as simple as you want it).
I'd love to hear what some of the Trainz veterans can share with me. Would love to see a tutorial or youtube video of this in action as well.
From what I can tell the only way of adding random factors is when you make a car available from the empty car pool. Otherwise the bridge traffic simply a series of records. I do love the interface of this, and hopefully this still works in 2019. I haven't tried to download it as I'd like to know for sure before moving forward.
Thanks
Sean
From what I can see reading the manual CMTM4 will basically just go through a preset list of destinations or movements, and it will be the same every time you get to that day of the week. I haven't seen a place where demand gets randomized. So basically it calls each one in order.
With RTS I used a similar record system but developed a seeded random number generator that pulled waybills based on varying demands within limits. From there is took the XML file that Run8 uses to define a consist. I then calculated what values and arrays would go into the table and rewrote the train XML file (consist). I'm wondering if CMTM4 still works with 2019, if it's possible for me to create a random script generator that makes each session variable (though within familiar limits as complex or as simple as you want it).
I'd love to hear what some of the Trainz veterans can share with me. Would love to see a tutorial or youtube video of this in action as well.
From what I can tell the only way of adding random factors is when you make a car available from the empty car pool. Otherwise the bridge traffic simply a series of records. I do love the interface of this, and hopefully this still works in 2019. I haven't tried to download it as I'd like to know for sure before moving forward.
Thanks
Sean
jbaxter1964
Member
At work, but my short answer is I have CMTM4 working in TRS19. Problems like Curley is having with not being able to select a train, in my experience, usually point to a CMTM setup issue and can been seen in TRS12, TANE, and TRS19.
Yeah I'm at work as well. OK I'm going to try it as I have the 4 manual to go off of and will try and figure it out.
Just wondering if I can apply some kind of random magic to it either in the sim, or perhaps using an external program that I write.
For now I'm just going to get it in there and see what it looks like.
Thanks
Sean
Just wondering if I can apply some kind of random magic to it either in the sim, or perhaps using an external program that I write.
For now I'm just going to get it in there and see what it looks like.
Thanks
Sean
Heinrich505
Active member
Seane2c and and JBaxter1964,
I'd be real interested in what y'all figure out. I was playing around with CMTM3 for several routes that Dap put together a while back for CMTM, called Jay Street Connecting 1914 and Long Island Western, and his Portland Terminal CMTM4.
QuickDrive rule v2 had a faulty dependency, Global consist library v2, which messed up the Jay Street Route, not allowing new cars to be delivered by a barge. I was able to tweak the Global consist library v2 into somehow working, which did allow the barge to bring in new cars for delivery and letting me work through five days of operation. But, the initial car placement had a ton of cars that had no destination, so they just clogged up the route. Later barges had fewer and fewer cars with destinations, so clearly something wasn't working correctly.
I was never able to get Portland Terminal to work. Trains that were supposed to come in via a portal to deliver and pick up never arrived, even though they were set up correctly (as far as I could tell, being really new to the system) for the portal manager.
For Long Island Western, I was able to assign cars destinations from the empty car track per game instructions, but the train that was entering via a portal wouldn't stop to drop off the new cars and just kept driving on to exit via a portal.
I've only just started reading the CMTM4 manual, so I am very new to all this, but the experience of working the Jay Street Connecting route, rushing around to deliver and pick up train cars, setting them on a barge, and then getting a new set of cars to deliver from the next barge, and doing this for 5 days in a row, was one heck of a rush. I have to say that it was the most intense fun I've had so far in Trainz.
I've been hoping that someone would come up with a fix or workaround just to get those routes to work. Having a random number generator would be even more amazing.
I've heard that the main problem is that when trains are emitted from the portals, the game isn't allowing enough time to let the program assign destinations for the cars in the consist, thus either the train times out and never comes onto the map, as in the case of the Portland Terminal, or the train does come on the map for Long Island Western but with no cars assigned and the train defaulting to continue to it's next assigned destination, hence not stopping to deliver or pick up cars at the local destination.
As I am just now scratching the surface of this system, it is all a learning experience in progress for me, but from my experience operating the Jay Street Connecting route, I know it is one really cool program that brings us closer to actual railroad operations being simulated.
Thanks for looking into this.
Heinrich505
I'd be real interested in what y'all figure out. I was playing around with CMTM3 for several routes that Dap put together a while back for CMTM, called Jay Street Connecting 1914 and Long Island Western, and his Portland Terminal CMTM4.
QuickDrive rule v2 had a faulty dependency, Global consist library v2, which messed up the Jay Street Route, not allowing new cars to be delivered by a barge. I was able to tweak the Global consist library v2 into somehow working, which did allow the barge to bring in new cars for delivery and letting me work through five days of operation. But, the initial car placement had a ton of cars that had no destination, so they just clogged up the route. Later barges had fewer and fewer cars with destinations, so clearly something wasn't working correctly.
I was never able to get Portland Terminal to work. Trains that were supposed to come in via a portal to deliver and pick up never arrived, even though they were set up correctly (as far as I could tell, being really new to the system) for the portal manager.
For Long Island Western, I was able to assign cars destinations from the empty car track per game instructions, but the train that was entering via a portal wouldn't stop to drop off the new cars and just kept driving on to exit via a portal.
I've only just started reading the CMTM4 manual, so I am very new to all this, but the experience of working the Jay Street Connecting route, rushing around to deliver and pick up train cars, setting them on a barge, and then getting a new set of cars to deliver from the next barge, and doing this for 5 days in a row, was one heck of a rush. I have to say that it was the most intense fun I've had so far in Trainz.
I've been hoping that someone would come up with a fix or workaround just to get those routes to work. Having a random number generator would be even more amazing.
I've heard that the main problem is that when trains are emitted from the portals, the game isn't allowing enough time to let the program assign destinations for the cars in the consist, thus either the train times out and never comes onto the map, as in the case of the Portland Terminal, or the train does come on the map for Long Island Western but with no cars assigned and the train defaulting to continue to it's next assigned destination, hence not stopping to deliver or pick up cars at the local destination.
As I am just now scratching the surface of this system, it is all a learning experience in progress for me, but from my experience operating the Jay Street Connecting route, I know it is one really cool program that brings us closer to actual railroad operations being simulated.
Thanks for looking into this.
Heinrich505
Hi All
I was able to run the Portland Terminal CMTM4 session up until day 5. The train from the portal was too long that day and passed the trackmark to assign the commands and destination of cars thus could not be controlled. With Tane the way to change from day to day would not work and setup other than Monday had to be done manually, if memory serves correctly.
Rob
I was able to run the Portland Terminal CMTM4 session up until day 5. The train from the portal was too long that day and passed the trackmark to assign the commands and destination of cars thus could not be controlled. With Tane the way to change from day to day would not work and setup other than Monday had to be done manually, if memory serves correctly.
Rob
Heinrich505
Active member
MountE,
I never could get the train to arrive, even though it appeared to be set to arrive properly via the portal. How the heck did you get the portal to work?
Heinrich505
I never could get the train to arrive, even though it appeared to be set to arrive properly via the portal. How the heck did you get the portal to work?
Heinrich505
So here is a dumb question. In 2019 where do I find all these config.txt files? I read the manual, even with an IT background wasn't very intuitive. It described in detail how to lay out the file structure, comma delimited, etc. which I'm fine with including using Excel to read or even write them.
But when it comes into this whole editing the HTML I'm totally lost. config.txt I did a search on my hard drive and found very few if any. I did encounter one faulty issue with one of the recommended add on for (CMTM Portal 4).
On the positive side if I can ever figure out where to find these files to edit or what to add where, then I'm going to have a hayday in Excel. Excel or open office (heck even Google Sheets) can do wonders for changing things up pretty easily. I just got to get by these little basic things I have yet to figure out in Trainz.
Thanks
Sean
But when it comes into this whole editing the HTML I'm totally lost. config.txt I did a search on my hard drive and found very few if any. I did encounter one faulty issue with one of the recommended add on for (CMTM Portal 4).
On the positive side if I can ever figure out where to find these files to edit or what to add where, then I'm going to have a hayday in Excel. Excel or open office (heck even Google Sheets) can do wonders for changing things up pretty easily. I just got to get by these little basic things I have yet to figure out in Trainz.
Thanks
Sean
OK so I'm starting to get through some of the stuff in Trainz content manager that I didn't understand.
So how were you able to get quick drive 2 to work with that faulty global consist library v2? Of course I came across that same issue myself. The actual quick drive v2 looks much better than the original so I'd love to get it to work. Not sure if there is an alternate out there. I assume this is how you get it to run different days.
Thanks
Sean
So how were you able to get quick drive 2 to work with that faulty global consist library v2? Of course I came across that same issue myself. The actual quick drive v2 looks much better than the original so I'd love to get it to work. Not sure if there is an alternate out there. I assume this is how you get it to run different days.
Thanks
Sean
Heinrich505
Active member
Seane2c,
I'm not really sure why my workaround worked. It was all done pretty much by accident. I was trying to look at the faulty lines in the file and figure out what might be a fix. Of course, I really had no idea what I was doing, but even a blind squirrel will sometimes find an acorn.
This is what I did. I went into the QuickDrive v2, and then went into the dependencies.
In the dependencies, the faulty global consist library v2 showed in red. I then opened it up for editing. I changed nothing when it was opened. I then just submitted it, having changed nothing. When it closed after being submitted, it still showed faulty, but the QuickDrive v2 now showed as not having any faulty assets. Very weird.
I usually had to do this every time I opened the Jay Street Connecting route, but sometimes, after doing this once, the game just recognized that everything was okay and loaded up. If the above didn't work, then I opened the global consist library v2 for editing, and reverted it to original. One or the other way would work.
Once the QuickDrive v2 "thought" everything was okay, I then could see the QuickDrive menu on the tool bar, and I was able to access the time frames and the different days to operate the system. Without the QuickDrive icon, I was not able to advance the game from one day to the next.
But, this didn't really work for the Portland Terminal route. That might be because that was CMTM4 and the Jay Street Route was CMTM3. I don't know enough about the system to be able to say why. The "workaround" did give me the QuickDrive icon and access to changing the days or advancing the time, just like Jay Street. But, while I could see that trains were set to arrive at appointed times from the portal, they never did arrive. Without trains arriving, none of the collected and staged cars set for pickup were being collected and no new cars were being delivered.
So, my little trick only sort of worked for the Jay Street 1914 route, and even then, about half the cars on the route, and many arriving on the barges did not have destinations. But enough of the system was working to give me a taste of how things were supposed to be, and it was pretty doggone exciting and interesting.
The trick did give me QuickDrive for the Long Island route, and I was able to assign destinations for cars on the empty car track. But, when the scheduled train arrived first thing in the morning to drop off cars and pick up cars, it rolled right on past the yard and wouldn't stop. Apparently the entry from the portal to the map didn't allow the game time to assign car destinations in the consist, and if that didn't happen, then the train had no reason to stop and simply defaulted to it's next "off map" destinations to interact with other railroads.
I hope some of this helps.
Heinrich505
I'm not really sure why my workaround worked. It was all done pretty much by accident. I was trying to look at the faulty lines in the file and figure out what might be a fix. Of course, I really had no idea what I was doing, but even a blind squirrel will sometimes find an acorn.
This is what I did. I went into the QuickDrive v2, and then went into the dependencies.
In the dependencies, the faulty global consist library v2 showed in red. I then opened it up for editing. I changed nothing when it was opened. I then just submitted it, having changed nothing. When it closed after being submitted, it still showed faulty, but the QuickDrive v2 now showed as not having any faulty assets. Very weird.
I usually had to do this every time I opened the Jay Street Connecting route, but sometimes, after doing this once, the game just recognized that everything was okay and loaded up. If the above didn't work, then I opened the global consist library v2 for editing, and reverted it to original. One or the other way would work.
Once the QuickDrive v2 "thought" everything was okay, I then could see the QuickDrive menu on the tool bar, and I was able to access the time frames and the different days to operate the system. Without the QuickDrive icon, I was not able to advance the game from one day to the next.
But, this didn't really work for the Portland Terminal route. That might be because that was CMTM4 and the Jay Street Route was CMTM3. I don't know enough about the system to be able to say why. The "workaround" did give me the QuickDrive icon and access to changing the days or advancing the time, just like Jay Street. But, while I could see that trains were set to arrive at appointed times from the portal, they never did arrive. Without trains arriving, none of the collected and staged cars set for pickup were being collected and no new cars were being delivered.
So, my little trick only sort of worked for the Jay Street 1914 route, and even then, about half the cars on the route, and many arriving on the barges did not have destinations. But enough of the system was working to give me a taste of how things were supposed to be, and it was pretty doggone exciting and interesting.
The trick did give me QuickDrive for the Long Island route, and I was able to assign destinations for cars on the empty car track. But, when the scheduled train arrived first thing in the morning to drop off cars and pick up cars, it rolled right on past the yard and wouldn't stop. Apparently the entry from the portal to the map didn't allow the game time to assign car destinations in the consist, and if that didn't happen, then the train had no reason to stop and simply defaulted to it's next "off map" destinations to interact with other railroads.
I hope some of this helps.
Heinrich505
PharmboyNorth
New member
Heinrich505
Did you try the suggestion made by the OP in #1 (thanks Hemler)? I was amazed that it worked since the portals hadn't worked for me in CMTM since the early days of TANE.
Just delete the current version of Quick Portal Manager and its dependencies (you can always reload them). Select version 39 and "download this version".
I tried it with the Demo of CMTM4 and the incoming consist behaved properly in 106618 (Trainz Plus). Using the newest version of QPM there is a Timeout error on exiting the portal which doesn't allow the cars to be loaded or for a driver to be assigned.
I always assumed the error was in the CMTM script which hasn't been updated since TS12 and had just given up on using CMTM anymore. The CC&LE route and 5 day session for CMTM3 used to keep me amused for days.
Glenn
Did you try the suggestion made by the OP in #1 (thanks Hemler)? I was amazed that it worked since the portals hadn't worked for me in CMTM since the early days of TANE.
Just delete the current version of Quick Portal Manager and its dependencies (you can always reload them). Select version 39 and "download this version".
I tried it with the Demo of CMTM4 and the incoming consist behaved properly in 106618 (Trainz Plus). Using the newest version of QPM there is a Timeout error on exiting the portal which doesn't allow the cars to be loaded or for a driver to be assigned.
I always assumed the error was in the CMTM script which hasn't been updated since TS12 and had just given up on using CMTM anymore. The CC&LE route and 5 day session for CMTM3 used to keep me amused for days.
Glenn
jbaxter1964
Member
Sean,
The config files for CMTM are embedded in HTML Assets. I will try and figure out how to link an attachment and upload an example of a CMTM HTML Asset .cdp that I know works in TRS19.
Actually this is all very helpful thank-You. It gives me quite a bit to sink my teeth into.
As far as the error if I recall it has something to do with a build number not supported (too old or something). That is what gives the error in this consist v2 thing. There are other warning I noticed in the log but I take it that 1 error is driving it nuts. I'm going to play around with those and also try version 39 as I haven't even got that far yet.
I know there are some CMTM HTML assets on the DLS but I haven't tried any of them. If you can get one to the DLS that would be great, if not we'll figure something out.
Still trying to decide if CMTM4 is right for me, or if I can build my own script. One way I might be able to get around this is referencing a file instead of using the commands embedded. That alone would be the work around I need to get RTS external software to write the records. But even copy and paste, hell even direct spreadsheet manipulation can probably mix things up enough.
Thanks again everyone for your help. As always any more ideas always welcome.
Sean
As far as the error if I recall it has something to do with a build number not supported (too old or something). That is what gives the error in this consist v2 thing. There are other warning I noticed in the log but I take it that 1 error is driving it nuts. I'm going to play around with those and also try version 39 as I haven't even got that far yet.
I know there are some CMTM HTML assets on the DLS but I haven't tried any of them. If you can get one to the DLS that would be great, if not we'll figure something out.
Still trying to decide if CMTM4 is right for me, or if I can build my own script. One way I might be able to get around this is referencing a file instead of using the commands embedded. That alone would be the work around I need to get RTS external software to write the records. But even copy and paste, hell even direct spreadsheet manipulation can probably mix things up enough.
Thanks again everyone for your help. As always any more ideas always welcome.
Sean
Heinrich505
Active member
Pharmboynorth,
I just tried that with the Long Island route, but when I deleted :51, and loaded :39, the CM kept defaulting to the next lowest updated version. So, I found I had :50 loaded after I deleted :51, and :39 showed installed but obsolete. It would seem that I would have to keep deleting all the versions from :51 down through :39, one by one, before :39 would show as the most recent, but it would probably still show as obsolete. This is for TANE version 105766, which I'm not sure but I think is SP4.
With a more recent version still installed, :39 was not cutting in and the consist that arrived at 7:10 on time, just kept on going because no cars in the consist had been assigned a local destination and the game told it to keep on to the next railroad destination.
I agree with you on how enjoyable this system is when it is working. I spent literally hours and days working the Jay Street Connection 1914 route, enjoying the heck out of it, even though about 50% of the cars had no destinations and I couldn't do anything with them except shove them off to the side.
Heinrich505
I just tried that with the Long Island route, but when I deleted :51, and loaded :39, the CM kept defaulting to the next lowest updated version. So, I found I had :50 loaded after I deleted :51, and :39 showed installed but obsolete. It would seem that I would have to keep deleting all the versions from :51 down through :39, one by one, before :39 would show as the most recent, but it would probably still show as obsolete. This is for TANE version 105766, which I'm not sure but I think is SP4.
With a more recent version still installed, :39 was not cutting in and the consist that arrived at 7:10 on time, just kept on going because no cars in the consist had been assigned a local destination and the game told it to keep on to the next railroad destination.
I agree with you on how enjoyable this system is when it is working. I spent literally hours and days working the Jay Street Connection 1914 route, enjoying the heck out of it, even though about 50% of the cars had no destinations and I couldn't do anything with them except shove them off to the side.
Heinrich505
PharmboyNorth
New member
Heinrich505
I have a CM filter created for "obsolete and deletable" ie. obsolete and not built-in or payware which I run every few days. That is why it keeps popping up another version of the quick portal manager for you. All the obsolete versions are still stored in your database.
Glenn
I have a CM filter created for "obsolete and deletable" ie. obsolete and not built-in or payware which I run every few days. That is why it keeps popping up another version of the quick portal manager for you. All the obsolete versions are still stored in your database.
Glenn
Heinrich505
Active member
PharmboyNorth,
I sent you a PM.
Heinrich505
I sent you a PM.
Heinrich505
jbaxter1964
Member
While I still try to figure out if attachments are allowed here (the posting permissions at the bottom of the page say no), here is a link to a CMTM4 .pdf that gives a good overview of the system. Most of it is still very relevant, with some references such as quick drive requirements having changed since this was created. If you take that in mind and follow this guide, you CAN get a handle on CMTM and how it works. But the learning curve is steep. Enjoy!!
http://www.chinaotoole.com/Trainz/Car Movement & Traffic Management System4 120112 Release.pdf
http://www.chinaotoole.com/Trainz/Car Movement & Traffic Management System4 120112 Release.pdf
Heinrich505
Active member
JBaxter1964,
Thanks for the link. I'd actually been digging through it for a while now, and some of it is sinking in.
My main hope was that routes that DAP had already created for CMTM might be resurrected, as he really put a lot of work into making them. The heavy lifting was already done, but problems with QuickDrive v2 and the faulty dependencies within that QuickDrive, as well as some timing-out fault that stopped the portals from delivering consists seem to have doomed his routes, without a fix. That's a real shame because his routes are really well designed and simulate a 1914 NY port (Jay Street), a terminal (Portland Terminal) and a main switching industrial area (Long Island) very nicely.
Heinrich505
Thanks for the link. I'd actually been digging through it for a while now, and some of it is sinking in.
My main hope was that routes that DAP had already created for CMTM might be resurrected, as he really put a lot of work into making them. The heavy lifting was already done, but problems with QuickDrive v2 and the faulty dependencies within that QuickDrive, as well as some timing-out fault that stopped the portals from delivering consists seem to have doomed his routes, without a fix. That's a real shame because his routes are really well designed and simulate a 1914 NY port (Jay Street), a terminal (Portland Terminal) and a main switching industrial area (Long Island) very nicely.
Heinrich505