Terrain not lowering

Group,

Running the latest Trainz Plus 19 build. And I apologize - I'm at work with no screenshots.

I have a route I'm working on that I imported using Transdem with the Open Street Map overlays.

On one section (so far), I've encountered a problem. Where I have Tracks cutting through a hill (so the spline is basically underground and I'm trying to expose them), the terrain isn't lowering to meet the spline profile. No matter what I do, smooth spline, or lower the ground manually, the 'hill' remains. I've done a lot of other sections of the map with no problem. It's just this 10-15 miles.

I don't have this problem when trying to raise up the terrain - it meets the track profile with no problem. It's only when lowering.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

Trainmonster

Post Deleted

You need to lock the height of the track using the height tool. You simply click on that and then on the track spline point (circle). The circle will turn from white to yellow which indicates the track height is now locked. Once the track is locked, you can then adjust the terrain underneath as you have done using the smooth spline button. In this case, the ground will drop down along with the tracks.

There are some things to keep in mind. Older tracks will not ever sit absolutely connected to the ground no matter what you do, and act like a piece of paper (They look like printed cardboard to be honest). My recommendation is to use the newer tracks, whether it's the Pro-track or the regular type track. The ones with "terrain" in the name have extra ground underneath to fill in the spaces completely. The other thing to watch for is PBR track. If you are not using a PBR ballast textures, you'll end up with a shadow and gap under the track. This requires that you texture the surface, and there's a warning here. The track may end up getting buried which requires applying texture in a wider area to smooth things out.

MP242 said:

You sound like you have had past successful experience with using the "smooth spline" tool button, in all other areas on the DEM ?

What does it look like in wireframe mode when you lower or raise terrain using the "smooth spline" tool button ?

Click to expand...

I haven't checked in wireframe - I'll do that tonight.

But yeah, I've had no other problems anywhere else in my route. It's just been these few baseboards - which is why I find odd.

JCitron said:

You need to lock the height of the track using the height tool. You simply click on that and then on the track spline point (circle). The circle will turn from white to yellow which indicates the track height is now locked. Once the track is locked, you can then adjust the terrain underneath as you have done using the smooth spline button. In this case, the ground will drop down along with the tracks.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply! I've actually been building this route for about a month now, so I'm well familiar with the height tool.

What I've been doing is matching the track height in trainz with google earth, so naturally some of the terrain from the DEM isn't a perfect match. Elsewhere in the map, this has worked perfectly. It's only been these couple of baseboards.

Post Deleted

trainm0nster said:

Thanks for the reply! I've actually been building this route for about a month now, so I'm well familiar with the height tool.

What I've been doing is matching the track height in trainz with google earth, so naturally some of the terrain from the DEM isn't a perfect match. Elsewhere in the map, this has worked perfectly. It's only been these couple of baseboards.

Click to expand...

This is going to be the case with DEM versus baseboards because there's a limitation too with our 5 meter or 10 meter. We can come close in some places yet be off in others so you need to compromise a bit when it comes to the heights.

I'm glad you're familiar with the tool. Do the same for lower heights and adjust the ground accordingly.

JCitron said:

I'm glad you're familiar with the tool. Do the same for lower heights and adjust the ground accordingly.

Click to expand...

I've been doing that successfully all over the map, creating the cuts/valleys I've needed with no problems.

It's just these few baseboards where this has suddenly become a problem - and what is making me scratch my head.

So for some reason I can't post attachments, but I think I figured out the problem.

I've been building on the 'Ground Textures' layer - apparently for quite some time (as most of my recent work is on this layer.

Apparently, when I did the TransDem import, some tiles contain a Open Street Map overlay that doesn't adjust to the terrain, so when I lower the the ground, the 'map' image floats above the track.

If I hide the layer, this image goes away and you can see the adjusted terrain.

So from what I can figure out - I have a few options:
1. Delete the layer - but if I do that I delete about 2 weeks worth of track work that isn't a problem else where
2. Delete (what I think is) the texture file in content manager - I'm not sure what the inherent risks are to this

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks!

trainm0nster said:

So for some reason I can't post attachments, but I think I figured out the problem.

I've been building on the 'Ground Textures' layer - apparently for quite some time (as most of my recent work is on this layer.

Apparently, when I did the TransDem import, some tiles contain a Open Street Map overlay that doesn't adjust to the terrain, so when I lower the the ground, the 'map' image floats above the track.

If I hide the layer, this image goes away and you can see the adjusted terrain.

So from what I can figure out - I have a few options:
1. Delete the layer - but if I do that I delete about 2 weeks worth of track work that isn't a problem else where
2. Delete (what I think is) the texture file in content manager - I'm not sure what the inherent risks are to this

Anyone have any other ideas?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

That makes sense because the tiles are assets or objects and not an actual texture. If you had used a topographic map, such as a GEO-Tiff, or a map-tile download from the USGS topo-server, that would have become an actual texture on your grid which you can adjust as you did in other locations.

To post an image, you can use www.imgur.com
Upload the image and use the share option to share the link for the BB-forums by pasting the link in your forum post.

I'm no expert, but could he not merge the layer into the route layer? Just a wild random thought.

JCitron said:

That makes sense because the tiles are assets or objects and not an actual texture. If you had used a topographic map, such as a GEO-Tiff, or a map-tile download from the USGS topo-server, that would have become an actual texture on your grid which you can adjust as you did in other locations.
.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the response. Given how far into this I am - do you know any work around to this? If I delete the asset in Content Manager - will it corrupt the route?

If I delete the asset in Content Manager - will it corrupt the route?

Click to expand...

No shouldn't corrupt the route. You can then select delete missing assets in the route menu in surveyor and delete them from the route files. You may not be able to get them back on the map in the correct placement if you need them in the future I'm not sure about that.

If you can identify all the scenery tiles in question in CM, you can save them to cdp and then delete them. You can get them back but can you place them and reposition them correctly? Transdem may have some way to reposition them to their correct geo-placement on the route. But that's if you moved them I'm not sure what happens if you delete them.

If I hide the layer, this image goes away and you can see the adjusted terrain.

So from what I can figure out - I have a few options:
1. Delete the layer - but if I do that I delete about 2 weeks worth of track work that isn't a problem else where
2. Delete (what I think is) the texture file in content manager - I'm not sure what the inherent risks are to this

Anyone have any other ideas?

Click to expand...

Another "workaround" would be to move all the track from the 'Ground Textures' layer to the route layer. You can do it using the ? tool on the track flyout admittedly a tedious one-at-a-time process but probably easier than relaying all the track that is on that layer if you just delete it. I thought there was an option on the bulk update/replace tool but I could not get it to update a few track sections on the session layer to the route layer when I tried in TRS19.

Bob Pearson

trainm0nster said:

Thanks for the response. Given how far into this I am - do you know any work around to this? If I delete the asset in Content Manager - will it corrupt the route?

Click to expand...

If you delete the asset, you'll end up with missing assets and need to "Delete missing assets" in Surveyor.

I recommend hiding these assets for now if you no longer need them for reference and then delete the layer afterwards. Once done, you can then delete the assets in Content Manager, open the route up again and run the delete missing assets utility. The reason for keeping them around is for the just in case you may still need them for reference.

RPearson said:

If you can identify all the scenery tiles in question in CM, you can save them to cdp and then delete them. You can get them back but can you place them and reposition them correctly? Transdem may have some way to reposition them to their correct geo-placement on the route. But that's if you moved them I'm not sure what happens if you delete them.

Another "workaround" would be to move all the track from the 'Ground Textures' layer to the route layer. You can do it using the ? tool on the track flyout admittedly a tedious one-at-a-time process but probably easier than relaying all the track that is on that layer if you just delete it. I thought there was an option on the bulk update/replace tool but I could not get it to update a few track sections on the session layer to the route layer when I tried in TRS19.

Bob Pearson

Click to expand...

I'm hesitant to try anything that could potentially damage a couple weeks worth of work. I am able to 'grab texture' and identify the scenery tile and locate that in content manager - which is what gave me that idea in the first place.

I also wanted to save the 'map' to help place buildings, but that isn't critical.

RPearson said:

Another "workaround" would be to move all the track from the 'Ground Textures' layer to the route layer. You can do it using the ? tool on the track flyout admittedly a tedious one-at-a-time process but probably easier than relaying all the track that is on that layer if you just delete it. I thought there was an option on the bulk update/replace tool but I could not get it to update a few track sections on the session layer to the route layer when I tried in TRS19.

Bob Pearson

Click to expand...

Initially that was my plan, but I don't really know how much I built on the ground textures map. I could potentially have to redo a significant section of the map.

Is there any way to 'grab all track' and move to a different layer? I tried via copy and paste but that didn't work.

Ultimately this is all my fault to begin with - I knew I needed to be paying attention to the layers.

JCitron said:

I recommend hiding these assets for now if you no longer need them for reference and then delete the layer afterwards. Once done, you can then delete the assets in Content Manager, open the route up again and run the delete missing assets utility. The reason for keeping them around is for the just in case you may still need them for reference.

Click to expand...

I'm not familiar with hiding assets. Is this something you do in content manager?

trainm0nster said:

Initially that was my plan, but I don't really know how much I built on the ground textures map. I could potentially have to redo a significant section of the map.

Click to expand...

My suggestion is to turn off all layers except the "Ground Textures" layer. That will show what's on it and the extent of the problem. At that point you can make a better decision on how to fix it. If you want the track on the route layer and the task seems reasonable you can just follow the sections you see and change them with the ? tool.

If there are fewer of the Transdem scenery tiles you could potentially do the same for them instead of the track but I'd move them to a separate layer you create just for them - don't use route layer for that.

You may have better luck changing the layer of the scenery tiles since I was able to bulk change layers on them. Sounds good but I think you still need to select the tiles you want to update since they all have unique KUIDs. But fewer mouse clicks involved. It is another option and you have to decide if it's the way to fix this problem. Just make sure you move the slider to use 100% of the scenery object to make the change on.

You can hide objects by binding them to another layer (with the ? tool on the flyout) that is either hidden or you later hide. In this case they stay on the original layer but you can't see or grab them. You can just as easily move them to a hidden layer and accomplish the same thing, but now they're a different layer which I think is more useful here since you could potentially merge the layer into another. Binding and locking the bound layer is another thought but I can't say what happens if you merge the original. Best advice it to do some testing of what these feature do.

Is there any way to 'grab all track' and move to a different layer? I tried via copy and paste but that didn't work.

Click to expand...

I was hoping that was an option myself but trying it with the update feature in the bulk update/replace tool on the route menu in surveyor I could not do it with track. Maybe I don't understand it. I'll have to do some research but maybe in the mean time someone who knows what the tools does can jump in here. As per above I was able to change the layers on scenery tiles - this was in TMR17 where I had some routes using scenery tile made with BaseMapz.

Ultimately this is all my fault to begin with - I knew I needed to be paying attention to the layers.

Click to expand...

Don't blame yourself too much the game (N3V) IMHO should have provided a means to alert us of the current "layer status" years ago and still hasn't committed to providing one. They are just as negligent or more so as all of us who fall into this trap so easily.

Why is there no means to bulk update the track layer property? I hope someone can point out I'm wrong on that.

Bob Pearson

RPearson said:

If there are fewer of the Transdem scenery tiles you could potentially do the same for them instead of the track but I'd move them to a separate layer you create just for them - don't use route layer for that.

You may have better luck changing the layer of the scenery tiles since I was able to bulk change layers on them.

Click to expand...

That did the trick! I selected the scenery tile with '?' and moved it to a new layer (and then promptly locked the layer.

Thanks everyone for your help! Saved me a ton of time.

Thanks!

trainmonster