Session save messages.

K

KotangaGirl

Pre-Grouping Railways Nut
So I'm working on a legacy route that I've converted to TS2019 and I'm only doing things to the route and nothing else. I decide to check out some other assets on another route I converted some time ago and I save the route only, but when I close the route I get a message about the session being modified and prompts me to save the session too. I know very well that I've done nothing to the session layer so I click the 'don't save' button.
Now I open up the other route in surveyor, look around, find the assets I want to check out and go to close the route and I get the same message about the session having being modified and the prompt to save it. BUT I've done NOTHING AT All to anything so I click the 'don't save' button again and go back to the new route I was working on feeling somewhat annoyed and thinking I should have left the route where it was in TS2012 since TS2012 never gives me any trouble.

I can now understand why Trainz folk get themselves messed up with sessions in TS2019 with daft message boxes popping up telling them to save the session when there's no need to. Unless there is perhaps a wiser Trainzer than me who can explain what on earth is going on.

And just to mention it again playing musical mystery menus in surveyor is still a pain and a confounded nuisance.
 
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There is a thread going on this issue at https://forums.auran.com/trainz/sho...t-save-session-alone-wants-to-also-save-route

A few things that I have noticed:-

  • Changing the name of a route layer asset (such as a station name board) will generate a request to save the session
  • Using the Bulk Asset Update/Replace tool on route layer only objects will generate a request to save the session
  • plus a few other odd changes to the route but not the session that I have not yet been able to replicate will generate a request to save the session

I did post a bug report on the first point above but was assured by QA that this "oddity" was required for the Unified Driver Surveyor interface - even if you do not have TRS 19 Platinum or Trainz Plus you still have this feature built in to TRS 19 SP1 (standard edition) but not activated.

Plus there may be an issue with loading in legacy (pre TRS 19) routes and then saving them as TRS 19 routes that can also cause this "oddity".

PS: My solution which has so far worked is to click the "Do not save session" option and carry on as normal.
 
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Thanks pware, - so it's yet another bug due to the Unified Driver Surveyor interface. Another reason for me to hate the blasted thing.

Before SP1 I converted several of my favourite legacy routes without any problems at all which is why I was a little perplexed when these save pop up message boxes started to appear.
 
Is it not that the session layer and the session are two different things? If my station is in the route layer and I change the name then this change will reflect in the session not the session layer. The session layer as I understood was just a layer to place things you might not want on the route so they can be switched on and off. If you open the route and change some driver commands only, this will be in the session and it wont request to save the route. TRS19 needs some assets to be named in order to work like the ATLS assets. This means that some assets with a generated name may be saved in the session and not the route.
 
That sounds reasonable stagecoach. If it gets to be too much of a problem I'll delete the route and transfer it from the TS2012 copy to TANE instead.
 
If I remember correctly, the advice used to be to 'edit session then switch to the route layer', which in a dozy moment I would forget to do resulting in putting trees and track on the session layer, then having to merge.
 
stagecoach said:
This means that some assets with a generated name may be saved in the session and not the route.
Click to expand...

This has also been discussed and that point is not correct. An asset that is in a route layer is not suddenly saved in a session layer if you change its assigned name - I have run some simple tests that prove this. From what I have been able to "glean" from the QA responses to my inquiries and from the posts of others, the main reason for this change to requesting that you save the session after editing the route only (and this request does not always happen) is the operation of the Unified Driver Surveyor interface. Now before anyone complains that "they only have TRS 19 SP1 which does not have the UDS" I will point out to them that they do have it - all versions of TRS 19 have the UDS built in but in TRS 19 SP1 it is not activated.

I always thought that the often made request in these forums over the years to have a facility, such as the UDS, implemented in Trainz to allow users to edit a running game, was going to be impossible to achieve. I am happy to be proven wrong on that but there is obviously a price that had to be paid for such a complex feature. In any case I have found that simply selecting the option "Do not save the session" in the Save dialogue works.

PS: I have changed from being a skeptic on the UDS to being a supporter. It has saved me a lot of time and effort in fixing problems that you often do not notice until you are in Driver mode.
 
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Hi pware I did not mean the asset moved to the session layer but the name was stored in the session. Im still pre SP1 on my working routes.
 
Unless I am actually creating a session, I always edit in route and not save session, I don't get into a confused why is save session there when it's not needed state, pretty much foolproof for me, works in TRS19 SP1 Plus or Plus Beta and is the same as I used to do in TANE. In plus just make sure that surveyor is paused (should be default) and not in driver as that will automatically change to session.
If editing the session and you move something that is on the route layer then it will prompt you to save route and session.

Basically if you are route editing edit the route not a session which will avoid the need to merge anything.

With UDS, If you are troubleshooting a session in driver and there is a problem with a route asset, say a tree on the track? Pause, switch to surveyor mode then move, delete or do whatever with the item, save route and do not save session, if you try to do that from a paused Driver, which you can, you will not be able to avoid saving the session. After saving route on exiting unless you intend saving the session at that point, do not save anything just exit and the session will be unchanged and be back at the start.
And nearly forgot, if in driver, switch camera mode to the free roam view first before switching to surveyor, which gets rid of annoying wrong camera mode messages.
Don't forget you can check what layer an asset is on by getting it's properties with the ? and also change it if required.

Yes it's a lot to remember but it works for me, no messed up sessions or things that go missing from the route.
 
stagecoach said:
Hi pware I did not mean the asset moved to the session layer but the name was stored in the session. Im still pre SP1 on my working routes.
Click to expand...

Point noted. But I can see there will be a lot of confusion until people start to get used to the UDS (whether they have it activated or not) and see its obvious advantages but it probably still needs some "tweaking". There are still plenty of users who have not yet got their heads around the idea of Sessions and lets not start on layers - both Sessions and layers have been, in my humble opinion, two of the best features in Trainz for route and session creators. I will eventually add the UDS to that list.
 
clam1952 said:
Unless I am actually creating a session, I always edit in route and not save session, I don't get into a confused why is save session there when it's not needed state, pretty much foolproof for me, works in TRS19 SP1 Plus or Plus Beta and is the same as I used to do in TANE. In plus just make sure that surveyor is paused (should be default) and not in driver as that will automatically change to session.
If editing the session and you move something that is on the route layer then it will prompt you to save route and session.

Basically if you are route editing edit the route not a session which will avoid the need to merge anything.

With UDS, If you are troubleshooting a session in driver and there is a problem with a route asset, say a tree on the track? Pause, switch to surveyor mode then move, delete or do whatever with the item, save route and do not save session, if you try to do that from a paused Driver, which you can, you will not be able to avoid saving the session. After saving route on exiting unless you intend saving the session at that point, do not save anything just exit and the session will be unchanged and be back at the start.
And nearly forgot, if in driver, switch camera mode to the free roam view first before switching to surveyor, which gets rid of annoying wrong camera mode messages.
Don't forget you can check what layer an asset is on by getting it's properties with the ? and also change it if required.

Yes it's a lot to remember but it works for me, no messed up sessions or things that go missing from the route.
Click to expand...

Thanks Malc for the additional tidbits on the UDS. I got myself into trouble with that and ended up reverting a session back to a backed up one because I had consists in the wrong place and everything out of sync. I have remember to pause and not save the session.

My route-building methodology is the same as yours and I've done that since at least TS2009 without any issues. I just wish there was a notifier somewhere that tells us what layer and mode we're in.
 
JCitron said:
I just wish there was a notifier somewhere that tells us what layer and mode we're in.
Click to expand...

I have found it! A sneak preview of an upcoming Trainz release.

New-Trainz-Interface-Menu-and-Tool-Bar.jpg
 
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