A Few Questions About UK Signals

Hi can anyone help with the following questions, please bear in mind I'm talking about getting trains to run efficiently rather than being exactly prototypical:

• Which are the best (most reliable, most accurate looking) semaphore and shunt signals for a UK midland region line?
• When placing signals under what circumstances would you use a home/distant signal rather than just a home signal?
• When a branch comes off the main line and a dual signal is placed does the smaller semaphore always reflect the branch regardless of direction?
• Where branches come off the main line should the branch be signaled to both enter and exit the main line?
• When a branch comes off the main line leading to multiple sidings/loading bays (such as a coal mine) should each siding/bay be shunt signalled and if so should it be both in and out at each end?

I know the basic principles but the finer detail is harder to discern. I have tried reading the Signal Box website but it does not always tally with my experience in Trainz.
Any help most appreciated, I might be over-complicating things but signals seem to get me tied up in knots!

Thanks
Paul

Chrisaw has the best semaphore signals for UK. Use Sig T feather markers on the tracks after a diverge so the signal knows which arm to use.
Home /distant signals inform the driver of the next signal state. An express train would need to know if it will have to stop at the next signal.
All branch lines need a signal to enter a main line. The shorter of a dual signal shows the side the branch line is on. A lot of yards may not have shunt signals as banksmen operate the points and control train movement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railway_semaphore_signal#Lower_quadrant_and_upper_quadrant

You may have to mix and match a bit to get the signals you need as not all options are available in the signals available for each region. Some are better looking than others too.

A combined home/distant depends on the gap between signal boxes and breaking distances. This will depend on how you're setting up the boxes on your route.

If you have a diverging route, there will be a doll (signal post) on the main post or gantry for each route. These would be the same height for routes where there's no speed difference or 'stepped' where one route may be considered less important, for example, a branch line heading off a mainline. The mainline would have a higher doll than the branch line. This applies whether the route diverges left, right, or both. If I understand you correctly, the smaller semaphore would apply to a siding (that's if you mean a smaller semaphore arm, rather than a smaller doll). A small semaphore arm is generally a shunt signal, though there are a few miniatures used where there is limited clearance.

A branch would need signalled on or off a mainline to prevent conflicting moves. You wouldn't want a train heading onto a line where another train may be running.

It isn't always the case that every siding requires a shunt signal. The most ground signals I've seen on one post was, I think, three or four. Generally, access to sidings would be controlled by single miniature shunt arm. Normally I'd use invisible signals to control AI movements within the sidings but this depends on the size and number of sidings. There are a few semaphores which incorporate a miniature shunt arm too.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will fill in any gaps I've left but hope that helps in the meantime.

Cheers,
Innis

The first thing to remember is that the Trainz game engine doesn't necessarily follow any prototype signalling manual. This caught me out when I signalled my first UK layouts according to a signalling manual I had in my library and the Trainz AI plain just ignored most of them and did what it pleased.

When signalling the entry to a branchline the smaller/lower arm always controls the branch. This doesn't matter if the branch curves away or if it's straight. This means that when you place your signal feather markers (sig T) the branch always gets the diverging arrow and not the straight one.

Home signals mean stop, Distant signals warn that a home signal is set to stop and give the driver time to start slowing down. Combined signals with both home and distant arms are used mostly where sections are too short to place individual distant and home signals.

Don't worry laying out good signalling can be a bit of a puzzle so sometimes you'll end up having to experiment a little. I've signalled a lot of my own routes now and I still end up with trying to figure out some signal combinations that make my head hurt.

With shunt signals I use them on sidings to control the exit to the main line with perhaps a lower height Home signal at the actual exit to the main line. Signalling the entry to sidings with a shunt signal can cause problems if there any wagons in the sidings because they won't change from the stop position. Sometime this can be fudged by using an invisible signal placed just ahead of the wagons, but unless it's absolutely essential that a shunt signal be there I don't bother.

chrisaw's semaphore signals work fine, but download the highest build number to suit your version of Trainz as the later ones have improved scripting. I only use lower quadrant signals so I can't really comment on his upper quadrant ones, but there does seem to be a good range of chrisaw's upper quadrant signals available on the DLS. As for colour light signals forget it since I don't use any of that Sci-Fi modern image stuff.

Thank you all for the information.

KotangaGirl said:

This means that when you place your signal feather markers (sig T) the branch always gets the diverging arrow and not the straight one.

Click to expand...

stagecoach said:

Use Sig T feather markers on the tracks after a diverge so the signal knows which arm to use.

Click to expand...

Is there any guidance on how these Sig T markers work? I have seen a lot of them on other peoples layouts and often wondered how they work. Would I be correct in thinking that a left feather onto a branch would instruct the double signal smaller semaphore and straight on feather, on the main line would control the larger semaphore. Is there any sort of input required such as with TRC and ATLS crossings?

Thanks

Tutorial for the trainz signalling here: http://www.trainzclassics.co.uk/guides_tips/files/Trainz_TC3_Signalling_Tutorial.pdf look down the page for use of the feathers.

For semaphore signals:
The height of the doll on a junction signal indicates the relative speed limit of the paths through the junction (often in the case of crossing from the relief (slow) line to the fast, the tallest doll will be for the straight ahead slow line).
Coming off a junction to a siding will often have a smaller arm, e.g. a three foot or miniature, to iindicate that the driver must reduce speed to be able to stop at the next signal.

Chris.

Here are a couple of examples for signaling layout.
https://imgur.com/a/hGm9MBL

pogbellies said:

Hi can anyone help with the following questions, please bear in mind I'm talking about getting trains to run efficiently rather than being exactly prototypical:

• Which are the best (most reliable, most accurate looking) semaphore and shunt signals for a UK midland region line?
• When placing signals under what circumstances would you use a home/distant signal rather than just a home signal?
• When a branch comes off the main line and a dual signal is placed does the smaller semaphore always reflect the branch regardless of direction?
• Where branches come off the main line should the branch be signaled to both enter and exit the main line?
• When a branch comes off the main line leading to multiple sidings/loading bays (such as a coal mine) should each siding/bay be shunt signalled and if so should it be both in and out at each end?

I know the basic principles but the finer detail is harder to discern. I have tried reading the Signal Box website but it does not always tally with my experience in Trainz.
Any help most appreciated, I might be over-complicating things but signals seem to get me tied up in knots!

Thanks
Paul

Click to expand...

Once again thank you all for the responses. I have seen the TC3 guide before but I’ve bookmarked it now for reference. It certainly clarifies the Sig T feathers.

The single line with passing loop example to my mind goes against logic as it would allow two consists to effectively block each other unless the loop is made really long but I’ll give it a go and see what happens.

pogbellies said:

Once again thank you all for the responses. I have seen the TC3 guide before but I’ve bookmarked it now for reference. It certainly clarifies the Sig T feathers.

The single line with passing loop example to my mind goes against logic as it would allow two consists to effectively block each other unless the loop is made really long but I’ll give it a go and see what happens.

Click to expand...

You have a pm.

Cheerio John