See my post above for update on this.
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Issue with Multi Industry Track
- Thread starter ShadowRock
- Start date
See my post above for update on this.
Hi pitkin --
"I saved to cdp and deleted 1062 commodities (built in false, installed true)."
How did you get so many ?~!
This suggests that there is a maximum number of commodities that the MIN can handle.
"First, the asset only identifies the "gondola mill 52ft Railgon" as shown in these quotes. This is even though the properties have a 1 or 2 or whatever after them in the name, depending on how many cars of this type are on the route."
I don't quite understand this.
If the MIN is configured to produce 20ft Containers it will load every freight car that is configured to carry 20ft Containers, no matter what freight car is specified at 1:45 in the video.
"Secondly, I still cannot get the track to load or unload, even with just Woodchips."
This might be because when you go back to the "queues" tab the maximum number of items to load is maxed out at 100. Adding just 100 items might be too small to visually show in the freight car.
See 1:59 in the video.
To increase the load size for bulk commodities, as in Woodchips for example, firstly in the queues tab increase the "Size" from 100 to a much larger number. This will then allow you to set the "Items" to a much larger number too.
When configuring the MIN to unload, again set "Size" to a large number, but keep "Items" at 0.
Phil
"I saved to cdp and deleted 1062 commodities (built in false, installed true)."
How did you get so many ?~!
This suggests that there is a maximum number of commodities that the MIN can handle.
"First, the asset only identifies the "gondola mill 52ft Railgon" as shown in these quotes. This is even though the properties have a 1 or 2 or whatever after them in the name, depending on how many cars of this type are on the route."
I don't quite understand this.
If the MIN is configured to produce 20ft Containers it will load every freight car that is configured to carry 20ft Containers, no matter what freight car is specified at 1:45 in the video.
"Secondly, I still cannot get the track to load or unload, even with just Woodchips."
This might be because when you go back to the "queues" tab the maximum number of items to load is maxed out at 100. Adding just 100 items might be too small to visually show in the freight car.
See 1:59 in the video.
To increase the load size for bulk commodities, as in Woodchips for example, firstly in the queues tab increase the "Size" from 100 to a much larger number. This will then allow you to set the "Items" to a much larger number too.
When configuring the MIN to unload, again set "Size" to a large number, but keep "Items" at 0.
Phil
Philskene,
Don't know how I got so many, just lucky I guess. But I am certainly not going to install all of them again. Just in a passing note, only 16 of them were not on the DLS.
Insofar as the gondola, the MsgSapper BI3 industry lets you choose between the gondolas on the route (which number shows at the end of the Properties name). I don't know if this is good or bad. What I am saying is that the Multi Ind Str does not seem to do this.
I set the maximum number for queues to a huge number (you are right, that is easy to overlook). For Woodchips, this is 50000 units per car. It is easy to get confused between the different choices for the capacities (tonnes, units, etc.). I go back and recheck before saving.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to put on GDrive or wherever a simple working example route/session. Then I can put this to bed, so to speak. I am not obsessed with this, as there are industry tracks that work fine for me. However, I love your routes, and it would be nice to have the tracks functional in my world.
Don't know how I got so many, just lucky I guess. But I am certainly not going to install all of them again. Just in a passing note, only 16 of them were not on the DLS.
Insofar as the gondola, the MsgSapper BI3 industry lets you choose between the gondolas on the route (which number shows at the end of the Properties name). I don't know if this is good or bad. What I am saying is that the Multi Ind Str does not seem to do this.
I set the maximum number for queues to a huge number (you are right, that is easy to overlook). For Woodchips, this is 50000 units per car. It is easy to get confused between the different choices for the capacities (tonnes, units, etc.). I go back and recheck before saving.
Perhaps you would be so kind as to put on GDrive or wherever a simple working example route/session. Then I can put this to bed, so to speak. I am not obsessed with this, as there are industry tracks that work fine for me. However, I love your routes, and it would be nice to have the tracks functional in my world.
pitkin --
I've just uploaded a route and a session to the Download Station:
Multiple Industry New Configuration; and
Multiple Industry New Configuration Session.
"By special request.
The route consists of two 'Multi Ind str l= 60m EN' interactive industries located on a section of straight track.
The session of the same name shows how the Multiple Industry is configured to produce and consume commodities, in this case Lumber for flat cars and Woodchips for hopper cars.
To see how the Multiple Industry is configured, Edit Session / Objects flyout / Mouse click question mark / Mouse click Multiple Industry.
On youtube I have also posted a video showing the configuration method in an earlier version of Trainz. Search youtube with 'philskene'."
The session uses one of the built-in SP locomotives and the built-in flat cars and hopper cars. The flats load Lumber, the hopper Woodchips.
The session is included in the kuid table of the route, so it should automatically download when the route is downloaded.
When configuring the MIN, in each que work left to right and then from right to left, setting the parameters as you go.
Phil
Afterthought:
Of course the other (and better) alternative is to have the Player also act as Load Master and load and unload the freight cars manually using "Edit Trains".
I've just uploaded a route and a session to the Download Station:
Multiple Industry New Configuration; and
Multiple Industry New Configuration Session.
"By special request.
The route consists of two 'Multi Ind str l= 60m EN' interactive industries located on a section of straight track.
The session of the same name shows how the Multiple Industry is configured to produce and consume commodities, in this case Lumber for flat cars and Woodchips for hopper cars.
To see how the Multiple Industry is configured, Edit Session / Objects flyout / Mouse click question mark / Mouse click Multiple Industry.
On youtube I have also posted a video showing the configuration method in an earlier version of Trainz. Search youtube with 'philskene'."
The session uses one of the built-in SP locomotives and the built-in flat cars and hopper cars. The flats load Lumber, the hopper Woodchips.
The session is included in the kuid table of the route, so it should automatically download when the route is downloaded.
When configuring the MIN, in each que work left to right and then from right to left, setting the parameters as you go.
Phil
Afterthought:
Of course the other (and better) alternative is to have the Player also act as Load Master and load and unload the freight cars manually using "Edit Trains".
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I think they get downloaded automatically from dependencies in rolling stock. This does not necessarily suggest a limit, it may be a corrupted commodity name.
Just for fun, why don't some of you run a similar query in CM and see how many you have?
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This brings up and interesting point. Bulk commodities like coal fall from a tipple with dust effects, and dump into a grate somewhere. I recall a few other more or less realistic situations with logs. Otherwise, a railroad is not going to devote an engine and crew while a sawmill loads a bulkhead flatcar with lumber for hours. Same with boxcars.
Some large operations like steel mills had their own railroads. In model railroading, the owner slipped around hopefully un=noticed and placed or removed plastic "loads" amongst the cars.
I don't know that "Edit Trains" is any more or less realistic than industry tracks. A huge advantage, however, is that you know immediately whether the operation was successful (at least for visible commodities). I'm sure most of us can recall spending many hours over time staring at some industry track whilst nothing happens.
When I program a script, I try to put in debug messages to the driver messaging system to show progress or lack thereof. However, I of course set the debug parameter to false as I finalize the asset
.Hello Guys,
Sorry for my late reply, as I see the thread was opened in February... OMG
To be honest it is a coincidence that I noticed it...
Can you pls share a sshot with the isue (an error message / workaround to replicate the issue would be helpful)?
Thanks,
Krisz
The window that appears in "Tracks" and then the "+" icon is modal, and the menu items in Trainz to take a snapshot are not available. I took a screenshot in windows, but the jpg is very dark because Trainz reduces the brightness in this mode. I can send you the picture if you wish, maybe it will be readable for you.
Seems (as usual) there is something odd going on with the multi Ind types. I have often seen 'Product hozzaadasa' which is a clear indication that something is amiss. Having seen numerous problems with various types of multiple industry (but not the newest ones) I have some on a test route/track. Specially I installed <kuid2:102376:63033:3> Multi Ind str l= 60m EN and set up one item, Pallet Bin Apples stack of 3, and had it working perfectly. Reading this conversation I wondered why someone had trouble with it (in TRS19, it's broken in Tane SP4), so I looked again and added another product. Low and behold, I could now not configure the load/unload because now it is also broken, showing 'Product hozzaadasa' instead of Product Add. I deleted it and the apple product (leaving nothing) and started with reloading the apple product.
It now refuses to work correctly.
Has there been updates to any commodities in the last week or two as I have not downloaded any new routes that might have a new/different product, so I have no idea what has changed recently, but something has.
It now refuses to work correctly.
Has there been updates to any commodities in the last week or two as I have not downloaded any new routes that might have a new/different product, so I have no idea what has changed recently, but something has.
Your testing is informative. I now feel that I am not entirely alone in the wastelands.
Actually I've just done some more testing and this is what I found. To start with the <kuid2:102376:63031:4> Multi Ind str l= 10m EN and all others of that series are build 2.4 and should not be used. Either use the latest Multiple_Industry_New by Auran or the short verson by Vincentrh, both of which are Build 4.5.
As for the testing just now. On my test map/route I added another Multi Ind str l= 10m EN, and set it up with apples. Worked perfectly. Added a second item, and that fails every time. That is to say when you attempt to set load/unload via "Tracks" it will not show any products what-so-ever. Delete the apples and start fresh and it will NOT show any products either, not even the apples previously use. Exact same results with 60m EN.
Sadly the Port Tillamook route (TRS19 version) also uses these faulty multi ind types, but oddly also has the latest build <kuid:-25:1224> Multiple_Industry_New. I'm afraid the only answer is to use the latest build versions, the 2 I've already mentioned. Up to build builders to use the latest assets and delete the older ones. That just buggered up a session I was creating for the Tillamook route, time to redo it.
As for the testing just now. On my test map/route I added another Multi Ind str l= 10m EN, and set it up with apples. Worked perfectly. Added a second item, and that fails every time. That is to say when you attempt to set load/unload via "Tracks" it will not show any products what-so-ever. Delete the apples and start fresh and it will NOT show any products either, not even the apples previously use. Exact same results with 60m EN.
Sadly the Port Tillamook route (TRS19 version) also uses these faulty multi ind types, but oddly also has the latest build <kuid:-25:1224> Multiple_Industry_New. I'm afraid the only answer is to use the latest build versions, the 2 I've already mentioned. Up to build builders to use the latest assets and delete the older ones. That just buggered up a session I was creating for the Tillamook route, time to redo it.
Or the MsgSapper BI3 series.
It does not load woodchips, although the Tracks tab is not corrupted. When attempting to add a product, the Tracks tab window for products becomes inoperable with the now well known "h..........." word.
Same experience as Alikiwi had in his earlier post.
Thanks for your efforts. I am going to move on from this asset.
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I have been using MIN's since the beginning of Trainz. By now I do it fast as a routine, and in many stances I have written here instructions of what and what not to do. So, I have noticed, with any MIN, that there is a maximum number of commodities it can carry. On some industries I have let my hand go and populated it with 12-16 or more commodities, and also have the carrier wagons made to accept the same commodities. The train arrives, stops and continues, not loading or unloading anything. I suppose that there is a maximum number that can be used. It does not matter on the quantity, 1 or 256 items/units, it matters on the number of asset-commodity. Understanding that they are not faulty as they would operate normally when used on less populated MIN's. So, the question is how many is too many? Way around this is to use several short tracks each populated with a reasonable number of commodities before you get into trouble.
A variation: We can classify invisible platforms for passengers as glorified MIN's, where you can see the people appearing and disappearing magically when a train arrives. I have no problem setting these. On the AJS's ones, the setting that works better for me is to set it as "Through" and "Terminus", irregardless if it is a passing-by or final destination. Here is the twist: On your route, how many stations do you have? I found that if you, again, have way too many, and there are "too many" AI controlled trains doing all kind of things, at some point trains will start missing stations, whether you use "drive or navigate to". (they will also start doing silly things here and there, and running away when they should not, even if before they did obey all the commands on the same location).
All this gets me to think that we (or at least me), have reached the upper limit of what is considered a reasonable working/performance on the product. However I have to say, the sky is not the limit, and to me being below that threshold is quite acceptable and satisfying. But we should know what is the limit of that sky. I use a high performance platform, so hardware should not be the issue.
the maimum
A variation: We can classify invisible platforms for passengers as glorified MIN's, where you can see the people appearing and disappearing magically when a train arrives. I have no problem setting these. On the AJS's ones, the setting that works better for me is to set it as "Through" and "Terminus", irregardless if it is a passing-by or final destination. Here is the twist: On your route, how many stations do you have? I found that if you, again, have way too many, and there are "too many" AI controlled trains doing all kind of things, at some point trains will start missing stations, whether you use "drive or navigate to". (they will also start doing silly things here and there, and running away when they should not, even if before they did obey all the commands on the same location).
All this gets me to think that we (or at least me), have reached the upper limit of what is considered a reasonable working/performance on the product. However I have to say, the sky is not the limit, and to me being below that threshold is quite acceptable and satisfying. But we should know what is the limit of that sky. I use a high performance platform, so hardware should not be the issue.
the maimum
Hello Guys,
Could you please check how many
Total Installed / Total Faulty commodities you have?
I would make some update on the MIN scripts, but this data would be useful for me, since me and Phil have an idea what makes the MIN tracks unuseable...
If our assumptions are true, I would make some updates.
Thanks,
Krisz
Could you please check how many
Total Installed / Total Faulty commodities you have?
I would make some update on the MIN scripts, but this data would be useful for me, since me and Phil have an idea what makes the MIN tracks unuseable...
If our assumptions are true, I would make some updates.
Thanks,
Krisz
Not sure how it helps but I have 1,101 commodities, none showing as faulty. However having a lot of CTD I disabled a heap noting someone had suggested a faulty commodity could be the cause. Crashes almost stopped. Re-enabled the following:-
<kuid:60723:1348> AUS 13.5m Pipe
<kuid2:30671:9130213:2> Hops
<kuid2:63971:80002:1> steel roll
<kuid2:103919:80009:2> Steel billet 6 inch (load)
CTD that same day. So disabled one then another, so far (only 2 days) no CTD. IE <kuid2:103919:80009:2> Steel billet 6 inch (load) = still crashed
disabled <kuid2:63971:80002:1> steel roll
This is not conclusive however, so I wouldn't read too much into it yet.
<kuid:60723:1348> AUS 13.5m Pipe
<kuid2:30671:9130213:2> Hops
<kuid2:63971:80002:1> steel roll
<kuid2:103919:80009:2> Steel billet 6 inch (load)
CTD that same day. So disabled one then another, so far (only 2 days) no CTD. IE <kuid2:103919:80009:2> Steel billet 6 inch (load) = still crashed
disabled <kuid2:63971:80002:1> steel roll
This is not conclusive however, so I wouldn't read too much into it yet.
Hi,
It is useful for me
Could you please disable some (77) not used commodities in your CMP and then check what happens?
I would be curious what happens if you have only 1024 commodities (and no more) as active.
As I remember there was a limit in the script (1024).
Thanks,
Krisz