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Thread: Project: Revising my TRS19 PBR Parallax SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP track series

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    Question Project: Revising my TRS19 PBR Parallax SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP track series

    I have decided to bite the bullet, stop everything else I am doing for TRS19 right now, and revise my PBR with parallax TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP track series. This comes about due to the below forum post and the problems it brought out with the existing track:

    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...allast-contour

    At the time I did the original project (Jan-Mar 2019) my intent was to create a build 4.6 PBR with parallax fairly modern U.S. standard gauge track with 132 LB rail and a realistic looking ballast bed and ties. At the time there was no such track included with TRS19, and not much has changed since then. I succeeded more or less, although as the forum post above, and several other comments I have have received over the last year has shown, there are a number of problems with the track which need to be resolved.

    I am not thrilled at all to be going back to the track project as it was a real nightmare for me to do in the first place. Frankly, my experience level with procedural track, PBR or Non-PBR, is not all that great to begin with, but I have learned a few things since I did this track project about a year ago and I hope some of you out there with better experience will help me to make this track the best modern PBR parallax U.S. standard gauge track that it can be by participating in this project.

    When I released the track last year I provided all my Blender 2.79 project code for the track as part of the track mesh library which can be downloaded from the DLS. Here are the details:


    TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG Mesh Library
    KUID:439337:103187
    Description: TRS19 SAP Track Mesh & Texture Library for U.S. 132LB Standard Gauge flat bottom railroad track with tie plates and spikes. I have also included all my Blender 2.79 project files for this mesh library in a sub-folder called 'blender_files'. Before trying to access them be sure to first read the 'instructions_read_first.txt' file in that folder.

    What I need from you in the way of help for this project:

    I would ask that those of you who are willing to do so please download that mesh library, look at the Blender project files you will find there, and help me to resolve the issues that exist in the track by posting suggested detailed revision information for specific Blender project files in that mesh library to fix the reported problems. BTW my direct email address is included in the config.txt file if you want to revised the Blender project file and send it to me. Credit of course will be be provided in the description for those who make significant contributions for fixing this track,

    As of the time I am writing this today I am in the process of migrating the Blender project files to Blender 2.80 and the texture files from .tga format to .png format. I will of course make those available to everyone once the project is completed as I did before. As always I want to help others and to encourage variants or even new track of different types

    Here are all the content files which are for the track series:

    <kuid:439337:103193> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rail-Shiny-Right
    <kuid:439337:103409> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, Shiny, Track only
    <kuid:439337:103417> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, Rusty, Track only
    <kuid:439337:103416> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty, No Ballast
    <kuid:439337:103414> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty
    <kuid:439337:103413> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rail-Rusty-Right
    <kuid:439337:103196> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny
    <kuid:439337:103412> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rail-Rusty-Left
    <kuid:439337:103407> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny, No Ballast
    <kuid:439337:103192> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rail-Shiny-Left
    <kuid:439337:103191> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes-Right
    <kuid:439337:103190> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes-Left
    <kuid:439337:103189> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Timber Ties

    Bob

    Note: The track I originally built was based on this online tutorial on creating procedural track which included downloadable source assets:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...rack_for_T:ANE
    Last edited by MSGSapper; February 14th, 2020 at 03:20 PM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    Challenge #1 to solve: This missing right side chairs.

    Here is a screenshot of a reported problem with the track showing that the right side chairs are missing where the turnout branches off as shown in the screenshot below.



    I am baffled by this problem as I really don't understand what is causing it as I believe have done everything according to the N3V tutorial as stated at:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...rack_for_T:ANE

    ZecMurphy indicated in the following reply that he believed it was a problem with the single chair mesh. See his reply at:

    https://forums.auran.com/trainz/show...42#post1794942

    I do not really understand the mechanics of how TRS19 forms the procedural junction and how it assigns the chairs and why they disappear from the right side of the tracks as shown in the screenshot above.

    Here is a screenshot of the relevant Blender file I am using for the single right side chair:



    Any insights on this anyone?

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; February 15th, 2020 at 07:49 AM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    I was just looking at this one of yours and i'm not seeing the same problem.

    Don49plm

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    Quote Originally Posted by DON49PLM View Post
    I was just looking at this one of yours and i'm not seeing the same problem.
    Thanks but that is my <kuid2:439337:102745:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty is not my PBR Parallax track. The one in your screenshot is a build 4.2 track.

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; February 16th, 2020 at 08:24 AM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    I tried a little experimentation with the track. Angle seems to make a difference in what is displayed. If the angle is not great enough my right chairs are not displayed. If I make the angle greater they are displayed as shown in this screenshot:



    Why would this be and what settings in the config.txt file would control that behavior?

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; February 16th, 2020 at 01:51 PM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    In the screen shot above you can see that no procedural turnout was created. The only time I've seen the missing chairs in your track is when a procedural turnout is formed. I've checked several other pro tracks in TRS19 and not seen the same behavior.

    As to why no turnout was formed it's because the geometry you presented the game is outside the norm for procedural turnouts that is programmed into Trainz. You'd have to get the exact specs from N3V but some content creators have complained that for small gauges like 24" ng some "real" turnout geometry doesn't seem to be included in this norm. For sg though I'd say the turnout in the above pic is outside any realistic norm.

    Bob Pearson
    TRAINZ-UTC-TRS04-TRS06-TC1&2-TC3-TS09-TS10-TS12-TANE(TEG)-TMR17-TS19
    Member since 6-14-2002

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    I original looked at this track because of a post in the forums pointing out some ballast problems in turnouts in TRS19. I had just made a set of sample turnouts and checked a few out with a new turnout tool that had just been uploaded to the DLS. The turnouts are my own design but the geometry is very close to real SG turnouts. The main difference is that I carry the circular arc of the divergent track from point of frog to point of switch blade where in real turnouts the curve stops short and is finished with a fixed length straight blade. Because of this the lead (distance from frog point to point of the switch blade) in my turnout is slightly longer than in the real turnout by typically a couple of feet. The frog angles are however very exact.

    The series [edit] covers turnouts with standard frog numbers (FN) ranging from #4 to #9 by half frog number, #9 to #12 by whole frog number and #12 to #20 by two frog numbers. The tool works with #5, #6, #7, #8 and #9 turnouts so I increased the track beyond the frog to accommodate the tool on those turnouts. Not relevant here but you'll see it in the pics.

    I made additional sets with procedural track made with PBR materials especially for TRS19. These were made by coping the original set made for the test and using a bulk replacement to change the track to the new TRS19 PBR procedural track. If you can't tell which track is the old spline version - the basic mesh and textures are at least 15 years old - I suspect you'll be visiting the optometrist soon.

    The #4 Frog Turnouts from all 4 series. This is probably the minimum SG FN I expect to see in Trainz. IIRC the procedural turnout code fails with a #3.5 Turnout in previous tests.



    #4 Frog N3V's TRS19 protrack - PBR



    #4 Frog Elstoko's NSWGR TRS19 protrack - PBR



    #4 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR



    #4 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR Close up



    #9 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR. #8.5 and #10 Frog Turnouts shown in the pic exhibit the same behavior.
    The chairs under the rails on the right side of this track are missing for the entire length of the procedural turnout as indicated below - but only iwo the procedural turnout.




    #9 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR Blowup 1




    #9 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR Blowup 2



    Bob Pearson
    Last edited by RPearson; February 16th, 2020 at 09:32 PM.
    TRAINZ-UTC-TRS04-TRS06-TC1&2-TC3-TS09-TS10-TS12-TANE(TEG)-TMR17-TS19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPearson View Post
    I original looked at this track because of a post in the forums pointing out some ballast problems in turnouts in TRS19. I had just made a set of sample turnouts and checked a few out with a new turnout tool that had just been uploaded to the DLS. The turnouts are my own design but the geometry is very close to real SG turnouts. The main difference is that I carry the circular arc of the divergent track from point of frog to point of switch blade where in real turnouts the curve stops short and is finished with a fixed length straight blade. Because of this the lead (distance from frog point to point of the switch blade) in my turnout is slightly longer than in the real turnout by typically a couple of feet. The frog angles are however very exact.

    The series [edit] covers turnouts with standard frog numbers (FN) ranging from #4 to #9 by half frog number, #9 to #12 by whole frog number and #12 to #20 by two frog numbers. The tool works with #5, #6, #7, #8 and #9 turnouts so I increased the track beyond the frog to accommodate the tool on those turnouts. Not relevant here but you'll see it in the pics.

    I made additional sets with procedural track made with PBR materials especially for TRS19. These were made by coping the original set made for the test and using a bulk replacement to change the track to the new TRS19 PBR procedural track. If you can't tell which track is the old spline version - the basic mesh and textures are at least 15 years old - I suspect you'll be visiting the optometrist soon.

    The #4 Frog Turnouts from all 4 series. This is probably the minimum SG FN I expect to see in Trainz. IIRC the procedural turnout code fails with a #3.5 Turnout in previous tests.

    #4 Frog N3V's TRS19 protrack - PBR

    #4 Frog Elstoko's NSWGR TRS19 protrack - PBR

    #4 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR

    #4 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR Close up

    #9 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR. #8.5 and #10 Frog Turnouts shown in the pic exhibit the same behavior.
    The chairs under the rails on the right side of this track are missing for the entire length of the procedural turnout as indicated below - but only iwo the procedural turnout.

    #9 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR Blowup 1


    #9 Frog TRS19 SAP protrack - PBR Blowup 2

    Bob Pearson
    Bob:

    Thanks for the information and screenshots which were interesting. I am very much aware of the problems here, but trying to track down the cause of them is not proving to be easy at all, and where I need help. One thing I discovered was that the chairs are actually there if you zoom in as close as possible. You only see the very tops of the spikes portion o the chair, but they are there, at least they are for me.

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    Yes I show them in one of the pics above. If they are part of the chairs then maybe the PBR ties are expanding enough to hide them - but why only the one side?

    Since procedural turnouts are coded into the game engine, from the start I figured N3V should be involved particularly since it seems this happens only with some PBR materials.

    Bob Pearson
    TRAINZ-UTC-TRS04-TRS06-TC1&2-TC3-TS09-TS10-TS12-TANE(TEG)-TMR17-TS19
    Member since 6-14-2002

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    Quote Originally Posted by RPearson View Post
    Yes I show them in one of the pics above. If they are part of the chairs then maybe the PBR ties are expanding enough to hide them - but why only the one side?

    Since procedural turnouts are coded into the game engine, from the start I figured N3V should be involved particularly since it seems this happens only with some PBR materials.

    Bob Pearson
    I finally solved the problem with the chairs. I did two things at the same time so I am not sure which it was. I copied the single left chair Blender file over the right chair Blender file to ensure absolute positioning and also I fixed a problem with both left and right slide chairs being out position. Which ever it was the problem with the chairs was solved.

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    Question. I have seen several track examples where the mesh-length parameter seems to reflect the LOD2 mesh length, or greater, and not the LOD0 mesh length. The NV3 procedural track creation tutorial is not very clear about that and seems to show something else. See at:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...rack_for_T:ANE

    Here is the config.txt for my <kuid:439337:103196> TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny file:

    Code:
    kind                                    "procedural-track"
    username                                "TRS19 SAP Track U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny"
    trainz-build                            4.6
    category-class                          "TR"
    category-region                         "US"
    istrack                                 1
    enable-pfx-collisions                   0
    track-type                              "ballast"
    track-gauge                             1.436
    check-gauge                             1.395
    sleepers-orientation                    "average"
    
    mesh-table
    {
      track-lod0
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "tracklod0n.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         0
      }
      
      track-lod0-snow
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "tracklod0ns.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         2
      }
      
      track-lod1
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "tracklod1n.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         0
      }
      
      track-lod1-snow
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "tracklod1ns.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         2
      }
      
      track-lod2
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "tracklod2n.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         0
      }
      
      track-lod2-snow
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "tracklod2ns.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         2
      }
      
      endcap_prev
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "endcapalod0n.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         0
      }
      
      endcap_prev-snow
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "endcapalod0ns.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         2
      }
      
      endcap_next
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "endcapblod0n.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         0
      }
      
      endcap_next-snow
      {
        mesh-asset                          <kuid:439337:103187>
        mesh                                "endcapblod0ns.trainzmesh"
        mesh-season                         2
      }
    }
    
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           2.959
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
      
      track-lod-tree
      {
        lod-distance                        500
        
        high-detail
        {
          subdivisions                      2
          lod-distance                      350
          
          high-detail
          {
            subdivisions                    2
            lod-season-index                2
            
            high-detail
            {
              mesh                          "track-lod0-snow"
            }
            
            low-detail
            {
              mesh                          "track-lod0"
            }
          }
          
          low-detail
          {
            lod-season-index                2
            
            high-detail
            {
              mesh                          "track-lod1-snow"
            }
            
            low-detail
            {
              mesh                          "track-lod1"
            }
          }
        }
        
        low-detail
        {
          lod-season-index                  2
          
          high-detail
          {
            mesh                            "track-lod2-snow"
          }
          
          low-detail
          {
            mesh                            "track-lod2"
          }
        }
      }
    }
    
    endcap-prev
    {
      mesh-length                           1
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
      
      track-lod-tree
      {
        lod-distance                        400
        
        high-detail
        {
          lod-season-index                  2
          
          high-detail
          {
            mesh                            "endcap_prev-snow"
          }
          
          low-detail
          {
            mesh                            "endcap_prev"
          }
        }
        
        low-detail
        {
        }
      }
    }
    
    endcap-next
    {
      mesh-length                           1
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
      
      track-lod-tree
      {
        lod-distance                        400
        
        high-detail
        {
          lod-season-index                  2
          
          high-detail
          {
            mesh                            "endcap_next-snow"
          }
          
          low-detail
          {
            mesh                            "endcap_next"
          }
        }
        
        low-detail
        {
        }
      }
    }
    
    thumbnails
    {
      default
      {
        width                               240
        height                              180
        image                               "thumbnail.jpg"
      }
    }
    
    attached-splines
    {
      rail_left
      {
        lateral-offset                      -0.751
        use-same-direction                  1
        spline-kuid                         <kuid:439337:103192>
        visual-only                         1
      }
      
      rail_right
      {
        lateral-offset                      0.751
        use-same-direction                  1
        spline-kuid                         <kuid:439337:103193>
        visual-only                         1
      }
      
      sleepers
      {
        lateral-offset                      0
        use-same-direction                  1
        spline-kuid                         <kuid:439337:103189>
        visual-only                         1
      }
      
      chairs_left
      {
        lateral-offset                      -0.751
        use-same-direction                  1
        spline-kuid                         <kuid:439337:103190>
        visual-only                         1
      }
      
      chairs_right
      {
        lateral-offset                      0.751
        use-same-direction                  1
        spline-kuid                         <kuid:439337:103191>
        visual-only                         1
      }
    }
    
    season-selector
    {
      above-snow-line                       1
      
      branch-true
      {
        output-season                       2
      }
      
      branch-false
      {
        output-season                       0
      }
    }
    kuid                                    <kuid:439337:103196>
    
    kuid-table
    {
      1                                     <kuid:439337:103187>
      2                                     <kuid:439337:103193>
      3                                     <kuid:439337:103192>
      4                                     <kuid:439337:103191>
      5                                     <kuid:439337:103190>
      6                                     <kuid:439337:103189>
    }
    I believe the track mesh-length parameters should reflect the LOD0 mesh length which is 2.959 for my LOD0 ballast bed (ie; Tracklod0n.fbx) . Its that correct?

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    Good news! After a lot of very hard work I have been able to resolve all but one of the issues reported to date with my track. Here are some screenshots:

    My track with Shader set to standard:



    My track with Shader set to Ultra:



    The problem is that the tracks, chairs, sleepers, etc sink below the ballast bed when the Shader is set to Standard but are perfectly fine with the Shader set to Ultra.

    Any ideas why this is the case, or is this a PBR things as I mentioned in earlier? I don't see this issue with the TRS19 Jarrah PBR tracks so I am thinking it must be something else, unless Jarrah track textures don't have a height map in them?

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           2.959
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
    Bob, are you sure that's correct for the latest version, <kuid:439337:103196> that's on the DLS?

    Here's what I see and I have the lastest version that I downloaded recently [edit] (just re-dl'd and this is correct):
    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           17.754601
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
    I checked them all a few days ago and Elstoko's has:
    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           16
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
    about the same as yours.

    The N3V track I used has:
    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           20
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
      padding-length                        5
    So N3V is using the mesh length of the LOD2 for the ballast spline. As for the padding-length I found this suggestion as a possible fix for problems with the ballast stretching (others were adding or moving spline points which are on the users end):

    - add the tag padding-length to your kind "procedural-track", track-type "ballast" in the track-lod-tree container.
    You might want to set padding-length to the length of your highest ballast LOD (i.e your shortest ballast mesh).
    In the other thread on this problem (my last post in that thread) I noted that your track anywhere has problems displaying properly if the length between spline points is under about 14 m. That in fact was the original problem observed - a short length of track between 2 junction points.

    Bob Pearson
    Last edited by RPearson; February 17th, 2020 at 03:30 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPearson View Post
    Bob, are you sure that's correct for the latest version, <kuid:439337:103196> that's on the DLS?

    Here's what I see and I have the lastest version that I downloaded recently [edit] (just re-dl'd and this is correct):
    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           17.754601
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
    I checked them all a few days ago and Elstoko's has:
    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           16
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
    about the same as yours.

    The N3V track I used has:
    Code:
    track
    {
      mesh-length                           20
      adjust-cross-section-to-ground        0
      padding-length                        5
    So N3V is using the mesh length of the LOD2 for the ballast spline. As for the padding-length I found this suggestion as a possible fix for problems with the ballast stretching (others were adding or moving spline points which are on the users end):



    In the other thread on this problem (my last post in that thread) I noted that your track anywhere has problems displaying properly if the length between spline points is under about 14 m. That in fact was the original problem observed - a short length of track between 2 junction points.

    Bob Pearson
    I found the answer by a lot of trial and error.

    The mesh-length is whatever you want it to be. In my case the LOD0 mesh for the ballast bed which is 2.959 meters in length. The problem turned out to be in the subdivision parameter which should have been 1 instead of 2. For more on this see the two links below:

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...Part_Container

    and

    http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i...e%22_container

    Since the basic mesh was fairly small I didn't want to sub-divide it, as was shown in the tutorial on procedural track creation. The tutorial is helpful in many regards, but it doesn't break down the config.txt examples and explain what each line is for and why it is being used, which is something that newbies to build 4.6 track creation, as I was at the time, would find helpful in understanding.

    As always things are not always clear when it comes to Trainz track creation. This was one of those cases, at least for me.

    Once I changed the subdivisions parameter to 1 the problem, or at least that problem, was solved for me.

    Bob
    Last edited by MSGSapper; February 17th, 2020 at 08:25 PM.
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Here is where I stand now with revising the track:

    1. All .tga texture files have been converted to .png format.
    2. All Blender files have been converted to 2.80.
    3. The position problem with the slide chairs has been fixed.
    4. Visual anomalies, distortions of all types, and kinking has been corrected.
    5. The Moire effect has been reduced a fair bit. The only way I could do this was to darken the ballast albedo file by 85% in GIMP.
    6. The missing right chair problem has been fixed.
    7. The checkrail-body-length has been adjusted to the correct body length.

    Here are some screenshots of the fixed track as it is now:







    I have not however been able to correct the problem when the track is used with the Shader set to standard because I simply do not know what is causing it, or how to fix it. Please keep in mind that I designed this PBR Parallax track primarily for a TRS19 environment where the Shader is set to Ultra in order for the ballast to look real and have depth. For what I designed it for it does that perfectly now with all the other fixes I have done above. If you have not set the Shader to Ultra for your TRS19, for whatever reason, I would advise you to consider using instead the following in its place or some other track of your choice:

    <kuid2:439337:102789:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, Shiny, Track Only
    <kuid2:439337:102787:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, Rusty, Track Only
    <kuid2:439337:102786:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny, No Ballast
    <kuid2:439337:102784:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty, No Ballast
    <kuid2:439337:102745:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Rusty
    <kuid2:439337:102580:1> SAP Protrack U.S. 132LB SG, FB, TP with Spikes, Shiny

    Bob
    Master Sergeant/E8, U.S. Army, Retired (1972-1993)

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