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Thread: Updating consists

  1. #1
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    Question Updating consists

    Its probably something easy I am missing here but I dare anyway to ask:

    How to enable those first two options when maintaining consists in Surveyor?


    The only option I have is to delete and re-create but as long as I'm testing my own stuff I would prefer simple overwriting.
    Thanks!
    Lockheed
    Last edited by lockheed02; January 26th, 2020 at 12:04 AM. Reason: typo correction

  2. #2
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    Looks like an feature not ready to be used. I tried everything I can think of to do.

    William

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    Quote Originally Posted by wreeder View Post
    Looks like an feature not ready to be used. I tried everything I can think of to do.

    William
    I looked at it once myself. I think it's a template to create a base asset that you can use to build up from. It provides the kuid and description box, but it's up to you to put in the rest. Once the asset is created, it's now open for editing and the rest is for you to do as needed.

    I know this isn't very intuitive, but we know how this goes. There has been discussions in the past about creating a new Content Creator Plus - like program, but who knows where that is in the works.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 105100

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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    I looked at it once myself. I think it's a template to create a base asset that you can use to build up from. It provides the kuid and description box, but it's up to you to put in the rest. Once the asset is created, it's now open for editing and the rest is for you to do as needed.
    The asset that is created is complete and fully functional. OP is asking why the option to overwrite the version that already exists (rather than creating a new one) is permanently unavailable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    The asset that is created is complete and fully functional. OP is asking why the option to overwrite the version that already exists (rather than creating a new one) is permanently unavailable.
    Well that should be reported as a bug. I looked at this in the early days and reported a bunch of things way back then. I think it's the same in T:ANE as well.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by JCitron View Post
    Well that should be reported as a bug. I looked at this in the early days and reported a bunch of things way back then. I think it's the same in T:ANE as well.
    It's not a bug. If the asset has been changed (which is the reason for doing the save) then the currently selected asset cannot be identified with any existing asset, so it is not possible to determine which asset should be overwritten. If the asset hasn't been changed it won't be saved. The process could be for the dialog to include a listbox for selecting the asset to be overwritten, but that's an enhancement, not a bug, and since the names do not have to be unique even that is not really effective. It's exactly the same issue for terrain maps.

  7. #7

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    Maybe dumb idea, but could you delete the existing asset and then save as same name and description? Only I suppose the KUID would change, so maybe not good.... Maybe save as namev2 with version numbers and then rename when you get to the final version? Just throwing stuff out here...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    It's not a bug. If the asset has been changed (which is the reason for doing the save) then the currently selected asset cannot be identified with any existing asset, so it is not possible to determine which asset should be overwritten. If the asset hasn't been changed it won't be saved. The process could be for the dialog to include a listbox for selecting the asset to be overwritten, but that's an enhancement, not a bug, and since the names do not have to be unique even that is not really effective. It's exactly the same issue for terrain maps.
    That's right. It would be nice.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
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    T:ANE Build: 94829
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    Here was my testing method.

    On a section of track, I placed 3 different tanker cars.
    Used the Get Consist tool to grab them as a consist and added a name "3 Tankers" and a short description "3 empty tanker cars with different road names."

    Then on another section of track I added the new consist.
    I then added a fourth car to the line and used the Get Consist tool again to see if it activated those boxes. It did not. It just allowed me to create a new consist "3 Tankers + 1".
    Then I used the Properties tool to load the tankers with a commodity but still all I could do was create a new consist.
    So I don't see a way to edit an existing consist. You can only ever create a new one.

    TANE SP3 does not offer the new options. Just the name and description fields.

    William

  10. #10
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    Thanks for all the feedback. I was much tempted to agree to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by SailorDan View Post
    It's not a bug. If the asset has been changed (which is the reason for doing the save) then the currently selected asset cannot be identified with any existing asset, so it is not possible to determine which asset should be overwritten. If the asset hasn't been changed it won't be saved. The process could be for the dialog to include a listbox for selecting the asset to be overwritten, but that's an enhancement, not a bug, and since the names do not have to be unique even that is not really effective. It's exactly the same issue for terrain maps.
    But surveyor DOES know which consist I want to update: the one currently selected in the "Trains - Add consist"-drop down list! (and in background it knows the KUID and its status). There is the link to the (updated) consist on track.
    If you select a built-in consist in that list, the "Rename" and "Delete" options are disabled, if you select one of your own, they are enabled. So as soon as you Select the consist you want to update in that list and then do a "Get Consist" and overwrite/version update would be allowed, all 3 options of saving should be possible, otherwise only "Create New asset".

    Also note, the first saving option is labelled "Overwrite current asset". That "current asset" can only refer to the one currently selected in "Trains - Add consist"-drop down list.

    Unless I am missing something I vote for a bug.

    I shall file an report and we will see
    Lockheed
    Last edited by lockheed02; January 26th, 2020 at 01:14 AM. Reason: bad typing :P

  11. #11
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    Be careful with expecting logic from the way Trainz is designed.

    William

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    Quote Originally Posted by lockheed02 View Post
    But surveyor DOES know which consist I want to update: the one currently selected in the "Trains - Add consist"-drop down list! (and in background it knows the KUID and its status). There is the link to the (updated) consist on track.
    That would be a guess, at best. There is no connection between the current selection in the list and the selected asset in the scene, other than some operator action that might have occurred some time before. It is common, for instance, to break a consist in the middle and insert a different consist, then join the three consists into one: what would the consist list look like at that point?

    If the asset in the scene has been updated then it is a new consist and there is no link to any asset in the list.

    One way to do it is to have a separate 'Consist Edit' mode, where a consist is first identified for editing, changes can be made and at the end of the edit the option is to create or overwrite. A simpler option would be a 'Mark' button on the consist tab which allows the system to 'remember' the current consist. When any consist is saved, if a consist is currently marked it can be offered for the overwrite option. That seems particularly suitable for what you are doing.

  13. #13
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    time for an update:
    "The disabled options are ... currently not used by the system"

    The procedure how to (kinda) update a consist is suggested as follows:
    When you use "Rename":

    - ...this opens an inputbox that is auto-populated with the label you assigned the consist
    - ...you may rename the consist which updates the listview
    - ...If you edit the new consist again, the "new asset" is again shown to the user (because this is a new consist)
    - ...you may assign the same name and the system allows this (creating a dupe label for a unique consist)
    - ...from this point you may use rename\delete to manage your consists and the disabled options in the "Save Asset" dialog may be ignored.


    Btw, the bottom screen scroll icons in consist preview are classified as legacy state and might be changed in future.
    Lockheed

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lockheed02 View Post
    ...you may assign the same name and the system allows this (creating a dupe label for a unique consist)
    I would not recommend using the same name at any point - it can be extremely difficult to identify which is which.

    Quote Originally Posted by lockheed02 View Post
    Btw, the bottom screen scroll icons in consist preview are classified as legacy state and might be changed in future.
    That's been the position for a long time. It's because such a vast amount of material created or updated by N3V, including the very latest creations, doesn't include the correct icon. It's easier to say they might be deleting the feature than committing to correcting the assets. They won't say whether the other uses of that icon, for instance in the Drivers list, is also 'legacy'.

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