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Thread: a not so new session

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    Default a not so new session

    In an existing route that was imported into TRS2019, I continued working in the session that was originally created for it. Every time I enter it, everything is as it was when I last left, all the consists, train orders, the time of day, etc. nice for debugging as i can correct any issues as they happen and then continue driving.

    Wanting to start without that history, I selected Create Session. Hmmm, all the consists were still there, without any drivers and the time was still as it was in the previous session.

    How do I create a really new session, without any consists or any history of any previous session?


    70337:
    TRS19 Platinum, build 105100, Win10 Pro 64 bit, i7-7700 3.6GHz 16 GB, GTX 1070 Ti

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    You did this at the Route menu like in T:ANE and before?
    John
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    Sounds like the classic case of confusion between the route and the session.

    The original creator of the route/session had placed all the consists in one of the route layers - there is nothing wrong with that and it is ideal for the situation where you will only ever create one session for a route. But in your case you wanted to create a second new session and this is where you have run into the problem of consists in route layers.

    As an aside: The current recommended standard for Trainz Plus is to place all consists in session layers.

    Did you intend to start the new session with new consists (or the old consists in new places)? In which case the consists should all have been placed in one of the original session layers when the original route was created. This way when you loaded the route (without a session) to create the new session it would have had no consists. It would be tempting, in your case, to simply load the original route and delete any unwanted consists, alter and/or move the others to new locations, but, because they are part of the route, that would have also deleted, altered and/or moved them in the original session as well. Double Trouble.

    Is your head spinning yet?

    What is the solution?

    One possibility - clone the route to create a new one and then use it to create a new session with the edited consists all in the route and continue from there. Alternatively, after you have cloned the route, move all the consists to a session layer and then continue - that way if you create additional sessions then you will not have the same problem.

    A detailed Trainz Wiki reference that covers the issue of Routes v Sessions and layers in particular can be found at http://online.ts2009.com/mediaWiki/i..._to_Use_Layers
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 (RC beta) 105476

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    Joke's on me, it's my own route. All the consists are spawned by basic portals scattered around the route. Since the portals are on the route layer, I guess that is where the consists will also be found. But if I move the portals to a session layer, they will all be lost every time I create a new session. Can a portal in a route layer spawn consists in a session layer?

    I always start a route via the last session (often the only one) and then change to the active layer to one of the ones in the route side to continue modifying the route and run tests.


    70337:
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    Quote Originally Posted by martinvk View Post
    All the consists are spawned by basic portals scattered around the route. Since the portals are on the route layer, I guess that is where the consists will also be found. But if I move the portals to a session layer, they will all be lost every time I create a new session. Can a portal in a route layer spawn consists in a session layer?
    I have never before considered that question. I always place all track objects, including portals on the very rare occasions that I use them, in a route layer and have all my consists in a session layer. I had always assumed that if a consist that was in a session layer entered a portal to emerge sometime later, it would always emerge in a session layer

    I will perform some tests to find out - now that TRS19 Platinum allows driver sessions to be edited it will allow me to check which layer an emitted consist is in.
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 (RC beta) 105476

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    That's definitely it, Martin. Your portals setups will move with the sessions from one to another. I've encountered that myself and actually have used that as an advantage because it saved me hours of time setting them up again.
    John
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    I have just run the test using <kuid2:30501:22006:5> Portal Basic which is built-in. A loco, in a session layer, is sent into a portal, which is in a route layer, and after 1 minute it emerges. Halting the driver mode and switching straight into surveyor mode, via the UDI, I was able to determine that the loco was now in a route layer.

    I attempted to test the same scenario with the portal in a session layer (not something that I would do normally as it means the portal does not stay with the route) but TRS19 froze on me when saving the edited route/session and when I recovered from that it went into a DBR. Eventually I got it working and discovered that the loco was now in the session layer.

    So it seems that a consist emerging from a portal will be in the same layer that contains the portal. In the past this would not have been a problem (or not a problem that I can think of) but now with the ability to edit and save, as an edited route and session, an active driver session it can mean that consists that emerge from a portal can be in different layers from where they were originally placed.
    Last edited by pware; January 16th, 2020 at 12:56 AM. Reason: addendum
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 (RC beta) 105476

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    Gee, someone at N3V is aware of this big problem...
    Caution:
    Trainz does not identify which is the Active Layer in Surveyor and this often leads to problems such as objects being added to the wrong layer.


    Also...
    Notes:

    • For a Route with only a single Session - everything can safely go into the Route Layers Group

    Many creators only ever build a single Session for each of their Routes and do not use Session Layers at all (but they still have to save the session separately from the route).
    ...my preferred method.


    And then they add to the confusion...
    Changes in Trainz Plus and TRS19 Platinum
    The recommended practice in these versions of Trainz is to place all consists in a session layer and NOT in a route layer. Because these versions use a Unified Driver Surveyor, placing a train in a route layer will mean that it will not appear in your existing sessions (other than the one you are currently editing)

    So, what am I supposed to do if I want three AI trains working away while I have two Sessions:
    1. Manually drive a coal freight amidst the three AIs
    2. Manually drive a passenger train amidst the three AIs


    If I understand correctly, I have to put the three AI trains with 30-40 commands each into each Session.

    If that is the case, Trainz Plus and Platinum are definitely not in my future.

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    So in my type of case where a new session is created but many consists that were spawned by portals in the route layer are still somewhere in the route, is there a quick way to remove them all without going through the find process one at a time and then deleting them one at a time?


    70337:
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    Try going to MENU>BULK ASSET REPLACE. In the pop up box, use the "remove asset" tick box. I use this to mass reduce/remove trees to "prune" my foliage during builds.
    "Cave Johnson. We're done here."

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    Quote Originally Posted by maruffijd View Post
    Try going to MENU>BULK ASSET REPLACE. In the pop up box, use the "remove asset" tick box. I use this to mass reduce/remove trees to "prune" my foliage during builds.

    Unfortunately, the bulk asset update/replace does not work with consists.
    TRS19 Platinum 105100 - TRS19 SP1 (standard) 105096 - TANE SP4 (RC beta) 105476

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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    Unfortunately, the bulk asset update/replace does not work with consists.
    Consists? Yeah, unfortunately it fails there. I thought the portals were in question. Seems I misread the post.
    "Cave Johnson. We're done here."

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    Ecco, my preferred method of working is exactly the opposite of yours. I place all consists in the session layers and do not have any problems (but I have no problems with your method either - different creators can work in different ways).

    Quote Originally Posted by ecco View Post
    So, what am I supposed to do if I want three AI trains working away while I have two Sessions:
    If I wanted to have the same 3 consists running in exactly the same way in two different sessions (which is a possibility I have not yet tried), then I see nothing wrong with placing all three consists in the route layers and have the consists that will be different between the sessions placed in the session layers. However, as I am sure you are aware, all driver commands for all consists regardless of whether they are session or route based have always been held in the session, not the route. So you would still have to copy those commands from one session to another.

    Quote Originally Posted by ecco View Post
    If that is the case, Trainz Plus and Platinum are definitely not in my future.
    I have experienced no difficulties in moving from TANE and TRS19 SP1 to TRS19 Platinum in regards to running sessions.

    As I noted in my previous post the problem caused by using portals, where the consist seems to emerge (I have only tested one portal asset and not exhaustively) in the same layer as the portal, would only be a problem if you then used the Platinum/Plus UDS to edit and save the route/session with a consist that has emerged from a portal - it would be saved in a different layer from the one that it was originally placed. How much of a problem this would be I do not really know as, apart from the use of the Show/Hide Layers Rule or the Layer Control Driver Command, I cannot immediately think of any.

    The Trainz Wiki quotes at the start of your post, apart from the one about changes in the Platinum and Plus Trainz versions (which was a recommendation only), were not from N3V as they did not create that wiki page.
    Last edited by pware; January 16th, 2020 at 05:30 PM. Reason: typo
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    The point of using portals in the route is to have background traffic auto generated. Having each new session inherit the lot would not be all bad except it if I want to start a totally new fresh session without any previous consists cluttering the rails. Then how to get rid of the many generated consists. It's a huge map and going to each to delete is tedious.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    ... However, as I am sure you are aware, all driver commands for all consists regardless of whether they are session or route based have always been held in the session, not the route. So you would still have to copy those commands from one session to another.
    I said three AI trains for illustrative purposes. I usually run eight to ten.

    When you say "copy" you mean rewrite, don't you. As far as I know there is no way to copy driver commands. I said three AI trains for illustrative purposes. I usually run eight to ten with well over thirty commands for each.

    That's a lot of "copying".

    Quote Originally Posted by pware View Post
    The Trainz Wiki quotes at the start of your post, apart from the one about changes in the Platinum and Plus Trainz versions (which was a recommendation only), were not from N3V as they did not create that wiki page.
    Is there an official N3V guide?

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