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Thread: A hurdle that I can't jump!

  1. #16
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    Shouldn't really be that much difference between TANE and TRS19.

    Over brightness can be fixed for assets in TRS19 for anything approaching white or cream or just too bright that's not done with pbr by changing:

    Diffuse to 0,0,0.
    Ambient to 165,165,165 or thereabouts, adjust to suit
    Specular to 0,0,0.

    Only needed where there is a too bright issue which mainly occurs on the side closest to the sun in game, it's not an obvious problem if using the preview asset feature.

    To be honest I've created 4.6 kuid2 versions for TRS19 and haven't actually checked yet what that might do in TANE. Pause, off to check! Dropped a TRS19 "fixed" building back to 4.5 and tested in TANE, looks pretty much the same in both, which was actually somewhat unexpected.
    Weird method I know but as changing specular and diffuse values did absolutely nothing, I dispensed with them and it worked for me.

    If you haven't got meshes, ImEditor will do the job.

    The Darker ground texture, is odd, none of my own textures are that different in TRS19 to TANE. are yours normal mapped? If not that could be the problem. Looks like the the auto pbr in trs19 enhances the normal mapping, whatever the textures actually look slightly better in TRS19.
    For my grass type textures the normals all have black alphas and the image a white alpha, anything else creates shiny grass!
    Malc


  2. #17
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    Why does the lighting seem to only shine on one certain side of the loco, as it appears that the other side of the loco never gets much sun, no matter what environmental settings I adjust ?

    Perhaps I need to adjust my Trainz latitude to be on the equator like in: Quito, Ecuador, so that the sun shines straight down, lighting both sides of a loco equally ?

    Location of 0 Latitude, 0 Longitude
    To be exact, the intersection of zero degrees latitude and zero degrees longitude falls about 380 miles south of Ghana and 670 miles west of Gabon. This location is in the tropical waters of the eastern Atlantic Ocean, in an area called the Gulf of Guinea


    Null Island. The weather buoy moored at the coordinates of Null Island, in the Gulf of Guinea at 0°N 0°E. Null Island is a name for the area around the point where the prime meridian and the equator cross, it is located in international waters in the Gulf of Guinea (Atlantic Ocean) off the west African coast.


    Null Island is an imaginary island located at 0°N 0°E (hence “Null”) in the South Atlantic Ocean. This point is where the equator meets the prime meridian. ... A “geocoder” converts this address into its location as set of coordinates in latitude and longitude, a format that a GIS understands.
    Last edited by MP242; January 13th, 2020 at 07:15 AM.
    My 4325 car RGCX train is 53.24 miles long, and takes 1 hour to pass through town !

  3. #18
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    Is any PR stuff used. Maybe you tried some PBR texture then noticed the bulge. That stuff, while pretty, carries a penalty near track due to the texture changing elevation.
    Dick near Pittsburgh, Pa. i5-2500K 4.3ghz, 8gb memory, GTX1060 4gb video card

  4. #19
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    You are setting environment lighting and then also checking by changing time of day within the session itself?
    TRS19 SP1(Plus), 105100(plus), 106136(+beta)
    ASUS B450M-A/CSM, GTX 1060-6 Windforce


  5. #20
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    I reset the lighting on all my imported routes to the default lighting, which is similar to T:ANE.

    I click on the green dot at Noon.
    Click Reset to default in the upper right.

    Done.

    Then I can see what I am working on.

    When it comes time to setup a particular time of day for my driving session, I then tweak the lighting to suit.

    2019-01-26 003325.jpg
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 105100

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by boleyd View Post
    Is any PR stuff used. Maybe you tried some PBR texture then noticed the bulge. That stuff, while pretty, carries a penalty near track due to the texture changing elevation.
    I found having the "scale" dial set at far left when painting ballast, environmental textures etc under and near tracks, eleviates majority of the pbr elevation which can cause issues.
    "Every day may not be good, but there's something good in every day."

  7. #22
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    Guys

    Thank you all for the suggestions. However I should point out that the Darjeeling Himalaya Railway (DHR) is a route that has existed since 2006 days with periodic updates. It does not contain any more advanced content and ground textures and we don't intend to incorporate any of the later advanced methods. What the initial screenshots show is the differing presentation of the same route in T:ane and 2019.

    I maintain that with error free content and with all the settings are set to match those in T:ane the visual results should be similar, the screenshots show that this is not so. The route contains more than 1500 items and ground textures made especially for it, and up to and including Tane they have behaved as they should.

    The problem seems to lie with 2019, as the original route and current updates will only behave correctly in Tane.

    However, the only evidence I have is on my computer, I would be grateful if someone with the route and 2019 could check the comparison and comment. The XY location (bottom left hand corner) is 8881.67 - 5724.97.

    Peter
    Last edited by narrowgauge; January 12th, 2020 at 04:02 PM.
    I5-6 Core CPU. 1070-Ti video card, 16GB memory

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by narrowgauge View Post
    ... someone with the route and 2019 could check the comparison and comment ... 8881.67 - 5724.97 ...
    ... so i searched ... i dont have permission for "thumbnails", so i show in big pic ...
    - location (nearly) the same
    - version trs19 - 105096 (dhr = trs12)
    - leftup : no edit - straight from the original dhr
    - rightup : picked the same groundtexture to paint over ...
    - leftdown : paint ground with pbr texture ...
    - rightdown : paint with non-pbr texture ...

    ... so it's not the setting of the environment, but the groundtexture, which (re)act on the version of trainz ...
    grtz
    daveric

    Last edited by zsuda; January 12th, 2020 at 06:53 PM.

  9. #24
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    First off- an apology. I didn't make it clear that the problem is not the ground texture, it is the very visible colour of the spline under the track. I apologise for this.

    There is an embankment spline under the track which you will note in my original left-hand image (Tane) is a acceptable match to the surrounding ground, whereas in my righthand image {2019), the embankment is nowhere near the same.

    The broader problem is that as part of the update, all the splines, roads and tracks will be modified to get a better match to their surroundings, about 250 items. It will mean that I have to create two sets of updates, one specifically for T:ane and 2017, and another for 2019 which should not be necessary.

    Why does 2019 produce this unwanted colour change? This is what I want to solve.

    Peter
    Last edited by narrowgauge; January 12th, 2020 at 09:55 PM. Reason: Afterthought
    I5-6 Core CPU. 1070-Ti video card, 16GB memory

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by narrowgauge View Post
    First off- an apology. I didn't make it clear that the problem is not the ground texture, it is the very visible colour of the spline under the track. I apologise for this.

    There is an embankment spline under the track which you will note in my original left-hand image (Tane) is a acceptable match to the surrounding ground, whereas in my righthand image {2019), the embankment is nowhere near the same.

    The broader problem is that as part of the update, all the splines, roads and tracks will be modified to get a better match to their surroundings, about 250 items. It will mean that I have to create two sets of updates, one specifically for T:ane and 2017, and another for 2019 which should not be necessary.

    Why does 2019 produce this unwanted colour change? This is what I want to solve.

    Peter

    Pretty sure it relates to the auto application of PBR to non PBR assets and ground textures.
    The difference is the result of no normal mapping on the ground texture, the colour of which is altered depending on angle of view, screen shot below is from vertically above which appears to be correct. If you change the angle of view it gets reflective and then goes dark when at ground level as per your screenshot and the shadows are no longer displaying on the ground which they should be. If you look at any of the DHR custom textures in the Preview asset and change the angle of view you can see the problem.
    The lighter track / embankment is not an issue when viewed from above. That grass texture seems to be very susceptible to the angle of view others not so much. To add to the problem, you may find that ground textures without Normal mapping would be an error in TRS19 and maybe TANE, not at 3.5 but all the textures would need up-versioning to at least 3.5 anyway which is the minimum build for the DLS. Anything lower than that can be uploaded but gets shunted onto the Content Repair list for up-versioning if possible and not displayed in Manage Content, still downloadable as a dependency though. To physically reduce the over lightness of the embankments the gamma of the TGA would need adjusting, although on my settings here if the ground textures were normal mapped it wouldn't appear to be a problem. I sympathise with the problem having quite a few embankment splines on my L&B WIP where I've had to customise some of my Ground textures as in slightly different new versions to match the different lighting effect on splines in TRS19.

    I would suggest maybe contacting the Dev team and seeing if they can help in anyway.




    Last edited by clam1952; January 13th, 2020 at 09:16 AM.
    Malc


  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by clam1952 View Post
    Pretty sure it relates to the auto application of PBR to non PBR assets and ground textures.
    The difference is the result of no normal mapping on the ground texture, the colour of which is altered depending on angle of view,... If you change the angle of view it gets reflective and then goes dark when at ground level as per your screenshot and the shadows are no longer displaying on the ground which they should be.

    I would suggest maybe contacting the Dev team and seeing if they can help in anyway.
    I noticed a similar problem on the Clinchfield Route.
    The road splines are - Road 2 Lane WDLine 2:453099:10554:4
    The corner objects are - Road Corner 90 Degrees WDLine 2:453099:1296:1



    If you change the angle of view it shifts from grey to black. The corners and the intersections do not change at the same angles as the roads, so half the time the road is right and the intersections are bad and visa versa.

    The roads are perfect in TANE.

    Road asphalt 2L BNSF50 2:39134:101048:2 has no problems in T19.


    ETA: Since I'm not interested in fuzzy grass, what advantages does T19 have over T:ANE?
    Last edited by ecco; January 13th, 2020 at 05:22 PM.

  12. #27
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    To every one who replied, a big THANK YOU.

    I have seen Trainz develop over 19 years from that Christmas in 2001 and each version has become more technically demanding than the one before. I have always regarded Trainz as a model railway hobby and enjoyed the experience of turning code into visible working models. Gradually, the restrictions and requirements have taken away the enjoyment of creating and I have now reached a point where creation for my 'hobby' has become a technical nightmare.

    This old monkey is too old to learn new tricks.

    TRS2019 has become the break-point at which I will enjoy other peoples work in 2019 but T:ane will be my construction target version cut-off.

    Regarding the DHR, if someone wants to enter the battle, they would be welcome, but for Bill and I, if it works in T:ane, that is where updating stops. Methinks that the DHR, like me, is just too old.

    Peter
    Last edited by narrowgauge; January 13th, 2020 at 06:25 PM.
    I5-6 Core CPU. 1070-Ti video card, 16GB memory

  13. #28
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    Hi Peter,

    I think that is a wise choice. The route looks beautiful in TANE as does almost every other route.

    While TRS19 does have some nice features, I believe the scale has tilted too far towards making a "pretty" simulator. At the heart of this issue is that for all the fancy graphics, N3V has failed to address a very basic issue that has existed since 2001. Railroads run along slopes to gain altitude and due to the grid system in Trainz the only method to create that scene is to flatten out a 20 meter wide shelf with sharp jagged edges. To try and work around this shortcoming, creators like you and others have created track with embankments built in to the track. That has been a fantastic solution for those of us that love to see trains climbing through terrain dominated by huge peaks. But matching the texture of the embankment to the groundtexture on either side has always been a problem since the game renders them differently even though they are the same image file. Today, one must have a degree in computer graphics to make even a simple groundtexture for TRS19.

    Of course, you know all of this being the master content creator that you are but I say it for others that believe that Trainz must be able to make ripples in a rain puddle.

    William

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by wreeder View Post
    Hi Peter,

    I think that is a wise choice. The route looks beautiful in TANE as does almost every other route.

    While TRS19 does have some nice features, I believe the scale has tilted too far towards making a "pretty" simulator. At the heart of this issue is that for all the fancy graphics, N3V has failed to address a very basic issue that has existed since 2001. Railroads run along slopes to gain altitude and due to the grid system in Trainz the only method to create that scene is to flatten out a 20 meter wide shelf with sharp jagged edges. To try and work around this shortcoming, creators like you and others have created track with embankments built in to the track. That has been a fantastic solution for those of us that love to see trains climbing through terrain dominated by huge peaks. But matching the texture of the embankment to the groundtexture on either side has always been a problem since the game renders them differently even though they are the same image file. Today, one must have a degree in computer graphics to make even a simple groundtexture for TRS19.

    Of course, you know all of this being the master content creator that you are but I say it for others that believe that Trainz must be able to make ripples in a rain puddle.

    William
    Spot on!

    The problem is just that and the fact that everything now requires a masters in computer science and graphics design, and a minor in 3d modeling. Gone is the simple build and have fun like it was even back in 2003 when TRS2004 came out.
    John
    Trainz User Since: 12-2003
    Trainz User ID: 124863
    T:ANE Build: 94829
    TRS2019/Trainz-PLUS: 105100

  15. #30
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    Bump narrowgauge's original post to this thread. My shortline, basically logging centric, railroad uses a lot of content from narrowgauge and slugsmasher. A lot of the (prototypical based) mainline is in either logged, 2nd generation growth or old growth forest., and it looked MUCH better in TRS2010. Among the surprises in migrating to TRS2019 was a loss of a sense of density in these forests, probably due to resolution changes and lighting effects. I have played with lighting and environmental effects for several weeks now, but I not been able to replicate the "close in" effect of forests in mountain mist that I was able to attain on the previous route. No photos with this post, but I will try to fire up TRS2010 again and make a few comparison screenshots.

    Robert704
    Tacoma & Eastern RR (v)
    Last edited by Robert704; January 19th, 2020 at 07:26 PM. Reason: Typo

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