TRS19 Coal Country Session Coal to Richmond

Try as I might, I've been unable to get the loaded coal train over the mountain and on to Richmond in Cab Mode, for the Coal Country session Coal to Richmond.

I saw the video by Flamerailzz, and he seems to be able to make it over, maintaining a blistering 10mph pace with notch 8 on the throttle and sander active.

I have tried to duplicate his actions in the cab, as well as experienting with all sorts of different strategies, but so far with no success. Duplicating Flamerailzz's actions, I am pulling at 10mph on notch 8 with sander on as I cross the small girder bridge (just like he is), but shortly after that, I bleed speed to 9mph and wheel spin takes over. I can't get past that first curve.

I've tried blasting away at over 25mph up the hill, notch 8, sander going, and sometimes make it to the long trestle before all my speed has bled off and I'm spinning wheels again.

I'm not sure how Flamerailzz achieved this. Magic? Maybe there is some trick to it. If anyone has some suggestions, please let me know. I love a challenge but this is kicking my butt.

Heinrich505

- The route looks wonderful in TR19. Thanks Scratchy and JR. It is so atmospheric!

Hey There, Sorry to hear your having trouble. Once you get the Train near the bottom of the hill (1/2 mile) make sure your already at track speed. Turn your sanders on and leave them on and take it all the way up to the summit. Don't let up on the throttle or sanders for a second. If you find yourself slipping, stop. Give it a second, turn the sanders on (if they are off), then Release the brakes then go to notch 4 and higher and try and make it go. That should get you over. Good luck!

Flamerailzzz,
Hey, thanks for the reply. I really appreciate it.

I've tried this so many ways now, all with mixed levels of failure, haha. I'm running this in TRS19 version 105096 (non-plus version) if that makes any difference. It shouldn't, I guess.

I've jacked the throttle to notch 8 just before the hill, with the sanders on, and I'm actually speeding at 22mph when I hit the 20mph sign. But, by the time I hit the small plate girder bridge I am already bleeding speed too fast, and I'm down to 18mph by that time. In your video, you are also losing speed, but not nearly as fast as I am, for some reason. By the time I hit the small right-hand curve, I'm already down to 10mph. Shortly after that, I am doing 9mph and the wheel spin kicks in.

When I've stopped dead in the small curve, I then put the throttle to notch 4, engage the sander, and the train stays in place, holding position. But, as soon as I edge the throttle to notch 5, BAM, wheel spin is immediate, and I've lost the battle.

This is really kind of strange. Your video has you powering up the grade once you dropped to 10mph, and that takes you all the way to the top.

As an aside - and an indicator of how desperate I am to conquer this session, haha - I backed the train up to the Gilbert Coal Tipple, then let her rip down the hill and up the unconquerable mountain. Yes, I'm sure I would have run right off the tracks at some point...don't tell the dispatcher. I'm doing a cool 33mph as I start up the mountain grade, but again, speed bleeds off so fast that I only make it to almost over the long trestle before wheel spin wins and I spin to a halt.

I guess I'll have to turn in my engineers hat and take the walk of shame back to DCC for this particular hill. I've even added another engine and that finally gets me over, but still only at around 11mph. I'm wondering if it is just me or if others are also having similar difficulties.

At any rate, it is Trainz and I am having fun with the route. It's just this one frustrating section that has me beat. Any additional suggestions would be welcome.

Heinrich505

Weird! I know I made it damn close to the weight that will make you stall but all the times I have tried I could (just) get over the mountain. I'll have another go but yeah it went more or less exactly like in Flamerailz video!

Not that this is your issue but the performance of your computer can effect what happens in a session. As an example, years ago when the Mojave route was included as a builtin route. There was a similar issue. One of the sessions had a heavy train in cab mode climbing the grade with realistic coupler mode on. Part of the session was to stop on the hill at a siding, switch some cars to the siding and then proceed up the hill. Most everyone would break the couplers when trying to start up the hill again. But on my very old computer that barely got 10 fps on the route, I had no trouble. It wasn't due to skill as I seldom drive in cab mode. It was suspected that since my performance was so bad that the scripts checking for the stress on the couplers wasn't checking fast enough to see the force exceed the breakage limit.

So it is possible that either your PC is better than flamerailzz's pc or worse. This is one of the reasons I wish the session system would be replaced with something like SCS2006. You can create a session that runs perfect on your PC but then others have timing issues with it.

William

Wreeder,
Hmm, that's interesting. When I first tried that Mojave session in TANE, I was unable to get the train to even start up in Cab Mode. All eight engines were straining at notch 8, wheel spin, and overheating, but they could not budge the long coal train. I checked with N3V and they looked into it, but were unable to recreate my dilemma. For me, it would run fine in DCC but not in Cab Mode. It was suggested that I edit the engines to a different version, and with the edit, I was able to get the train moving and pulling the consist. The session was workable in Cab Mode. But, not before I had to edit the engines. As a note, that same Mojave session in TRS19 runs just fine for me in Cab Mode. I don't know if it was just the computer or what.

Since I seem to be the only one having this difficulty, you might have pointed out the problem. Everyone has a different type of computer, and sessions might very well be affected by this.

And, haha, I'm sure my computer is far worse than Flamerailzz's.

Heinrich505

Scratchy,

Thanks for joining in and looking at this. The route is amazing, and believe me when I say, this minor glitch does not detract from how wonderful your route is. Thanks so much for your cool work.

It's also possible that the session in the route purchased directly from JR works just fine, but the one I purchased through N3V was slightly different and doesn't work exactly the same as one direct from JR. There are so many factors at play, including differences in PCs that Wreeder pointed out, that it is almost impossible to recreate some problem a customer is having with a particular part of the game.

If you come up with a suggested "fix," I'll be grateful. I really appreciate your support. Thanks for such a great route and an amazing update.

Heinrich505

Heinrich505

I tried this session at least 5 times using different builds of TRS19 and Trainz+. Like you I couldn't make it up the hill using Notch 8, sanding and speeding up to 25 MPH at the bottom. I have a new Intel 8 core CPU running at 4.3 GHz and a 108o TI GPU so that shouldn't be a problem.

I just created my own session like you with a pusher GP9 and all was fine.

Just wanted you to know that you are not alone. I thought maybe the engine specs had been updated, but this doesn't seem to be the problem for the GP9.

Glenn

I think a clue might be contained in the driver instructions on the opening screen - you load the train in two halves at Parker And Gilberts - take each half back up the gradient separately and merge them together at Peabody. then down the grade to Richmond.

If it's any consolation, I also tried to do it the difficult way - several times - before going back and "reading the manual".

regards

John


And now I'm going to go back and read the manual again.

Switch GT5 ( access road to Gilberts Tipple) is locked and you can't therefore even reverse half the consist bought up from Richmond to load it. To compound the problem there are already an additional 15 empty hoppers positioned in the loading road. Do we assume that the aim is to eventually assemble a total of 30 hoppers at Peabody for ultimate delivery to Richmond

Thanks for the info, PharmboyNorth. Now I don't feel so completely incompetent, haha. It's kind of a mystery how some can make it work and others can't.

Heinrich505

Hey, Guys, just in case anyone is keeping score, I played around some more on this session.

I swapped out the two assigned engines with different pairs to see if that would win the day. The experiment was conducted the same for all attempts: at the pop-up message about sanders and notch 8, I put on the sanders and went straight to notch 8 for every attempt. I was doing 20 or slightly better (21 or 22) when I made the 20mph speed limit sign as I started up the grade.

Two PRR GP 7 Early version high nose engines failed quickly up the grade.
Two PRR GP 7 Late version high nose engines failed the same as their early brothers.
Two PRR GP 35 engines failed, but made it into the small curve at around 8 mph before wheel spin ended their try.

Two PRR SD7 engines made it into and through the first curve at 7mph, and then...wait for it...held on, at a blistering 7mph pace, and screamed all the way up the grade. Yesssss! :clap:

So, nothing less than an SD7 was able to beat the hill. I'm not sure what this means, but it is a small victory, haha.

Having fun on the Coal Country Route! It's all good.

Heinrich505

Heinrich505 said:

Hey, Guys, just in case anyone is keeping score, I played around some more on this session.

I swapped out the two assigned engines with different pairs to see if that would win the day. The experiment was conducted the same for all attempts: at the pop-up message about sanders and notch 8, I put on the sanders and went straight to notch 8 for every attempt. I was doing 20 or slightly better (21 or 22) when I made the 20mph speed limit sign as I started up the grade.

Two PRR GP 7 Early version high nose engines failed quickly up the grade.
Two PRR GP 7 Late version high nose engines failed the same as their early brothers.
Two PRR GP 35 engines failed, but made it into the small curve at around 8 mph before wheel spin ended their try.

Two PRR SD7 engines made it into and through the first curve at 7mph, and then...wait for it...held on, at a blistering 7mph pace, and screamed all the way up the grade. Yesssss! :clap:

So, nothing less than an SD7 was able to beat the hill. I'm not sure what this means, but it is a small victory, haha.

Having fun on the Coal Country Route! It's all good.

Heinrich505

Click to expand...

Heinrich

Good to hear you have found a solution - but one question - as per your post above you say you, "swapped out the two assigned engines with different pairs".

In my version of Coal Country (K:2:92924:100080:3), originally purchased direct from Jointed Rail on August 3 2017 (TRS19 update installed November 12 2019), Session 03 "Coal Run" has THREE locomotives - GP9 #2502, GP9 #2801 and GP18 #2409, nominally a prototype total of 4300hp - hauling 15 RPPX 100ton Hoppers. Do the locomotives that are assigned vary dependent on the version and who you purchased from?

For the record - with these samethree locomotives - when driving the official session in cab mode, I had identical results: a total stall just past the big trestle. However, if I shift to Quickdrive, set out and load the same consist with the same locomotives, I can set off from Parker, observe all the speed limits, apply run 8/sanders at switch GT5, cross the big trestle at 10mph and be doing 11mph at the first switch on the 2 track approach into Parker.

I think Wreeder's theories may provide an answer

Pitmilly,
I've got the N3V version when it came out on their site, and then with the update to TRS19. My kuid is Kuid2:92924:100080:13, and I'm running TRS19 version 105096.

I have two sessions for coal runs. One is that which you described, 03 - Coal Service. I just checked it and it has three locomotives at the head as you described, with 15 100ton hoppers.

i have another session that came, I think, with the upgrade. It is TS19 Coal to Richmond. That one starts with RPPX 2500 Chop Nose GP 9 at the head, 12 RPPX 100ton hoppers, and then a pusher RPPX 2800 High Hood Gp 9.

I can't recall running the 03 - Coal Service session lately, so I will check that out. My dilemma was for the TS19 Coal to Richmond session. To "swap out" engines, I would click on the Tools Menu on the bar across the top left, then click on edit trains, and using the pop out menu on the right, I'd select different engines and replace the RPPX engines with them.

You are working with a different session, hence the three engines versus my described two. I'll have to check that one to see what my results are as well.

And I agree with you - I think Wreeder might be on to something as well.

Heinrich505

Heinrich,

Thanks for getting back - we have at least established that we were initially discussing supposedly identical, but nevertheless different products - no matter how marginal. It would be interesting to learn how you get on driving the same session in Quickdrive.

regards

John

Pitmilly,
Here is what I found with additional testing.

In session 03 - Coal Run, with the three engines mentioned earlier and the 15 loaded hoppers, I slipped to a halt at the other side of the trestle. I was a little slow at increasing the throttle and was only doing 19mph at the 20mph sign.
I tried it again and this time bumped up the throttle earlier, so I was doing 23mph at the 20mph sign. I was able to make it to the 30mph sign on the other side of the trestle before wheel spinning to a halt. I could not make it up the hill with the given power for the session. Sander was active in all attempts.

Then I replaced the lead GP 9 with a PRR SD7, and did not make it to the trestle.
I then replaced two GP 9 engines with 2 PRR SD7 (yes, I know it could be any SD7, but the PRR one just looks so cool...sorry, but I digress...), and this time I was able to make it across the top of the mountain, doing about 5mph and wheel spin from the 30mph speed limit sign on the far side of the trestle all the way up. I actually made it to 7mph (still showing wheel spin) by the time I made it close to the top. I suspect the wheel spin was the lone GP 9, as the SD7s seemed to be slow but still holding the speed steady at 5mph.

I then went into QuickDrive and created the same train as the session. I made it to the 30mph sign on the other side of the trestle before wheel-spinning to a halt. I was not able to make it over the mountain with the same train in QuickDrive, unlike your effort, where you were successful. Very interesting.

Heinrich505

I don't know how far off in the woods you want to go but this might interest you.

All locomotives and rolling stock use a dependency called an enginespec to define the physics of how they perform in game. Years ago a creator had a choice to either create the enginespec themselves or use one created by someone else. In fact, there were several users who created many enginespec files and made them available for others to use. Trainzproroutes was one place to get enginespecs for different locomotives. In the config.txt file of the loco or rolling stock you will see the enginespec tag and the kuid of the one used. You can simply change the kuid to another enginespec file to alter the performance of the vehicle or you can open the enginespec file itself in explorer and edit the config.txt file directly to change the performance.

Both TANE and TRS2019 have the Test Track program available from the File menu of Content Manager. This program is designed to allow users to fine tune the enginespec of locos in a graphical
environment. I don't know how to use it but there are instructions in the TANE manual and in the wiki for TRS2019. You could tweak the enginespecs to get the performance to be more realistic.

William

William,

Was much amused by your reference to "wandering off into the woods" and by implication, the possible perils therein!

I was aware of engine specs and that some have only a passing affinity to the prototype locomotive they purport to replicate. I actually have a "Forum Friend" here in the UK who has significantly improved the performance of some indifferent performers.

I hadn't previously been tempted, as you put it, to wander off into the woods, but as you have kindly erected some signposts and advised the existence of two possibly useful "maps", I might be tempted.

regards

John

Haha. Yes, I've had to "alter" the enginespec in the past to get engines to a) work when an upgrade suddenly stopped them from working, or b) work more closely to the actual engine being portrayed.

Pitmilly, if you have suggestions on the alterations of the RPPX engines, I'd consider wandering off into the woods as well. I like these sessions, and it is great that people even go to the effort of creating them, considering the amount of work and effort that it takes to make a session that works right.

Heinrich505

Hello Heinrich

Apologies for the delay in getting back - domestic issues!

I won't be looking at e-specs anytime soon but - see my PM to you.

regards

John

scratchy said:

Weird! I know I made it damn close to the weight that will make you stall but all the times I have tried I could (just) get over the mountain. I'll have another go but yeah it went more or less exactly like in Flamerailz video!

Click to expand...

Just though you might take a look at this thread https://forums.auran.com/trainz/showthread.php?156582-maxweight-problems. It might be the reason some can make it up the grade and some can't. And nothing to do with your computers power.

I mentioned, I can't get the 2-10-0 (sanders on, safeties popping and no wheel slip) up the short 2.2% grade with 14 loaded hoppers after several tries in your PRR decapod session (from K&L site). I have another problem I saw that I'll PM you about later.

Bob Pearson

PS. In my case coal density doesn't appear to have affected the tonnage since both my versions of TANE and TRS19 used the same coal product (same version and density value). I'll try to get a PM off tonight.

PPS. It appears that anyone using TRS19 SP1 or any version update that uses the updated Auran base coal product could have this problem. Hoppers loading coal and having a maxweight limit enforced might be ok but any that don't and just load based on queue size will definitely see an increase in weight. The increase is a substantial amount - about 60% of original weight carried. if these hoppers loaded/carried 50 tons of coal in the session in TANE or TRS19, now in TRS19 SP1 they load 80 tons.