One step forward? Not the Trainz interface.

PWARE Partial Post: Someone here posted quite recently a link to a list of N3V personnel and the various jobs they do. I was interested to see that there appears to be only two (2) programmers on the N3V staff - whether they are full time only or if others were employed on an as-needed casual basis I do not know. But for the list of "must have now" or "should have been implemented yonks ago" and "bring them back now" features listed here and in other threads over the years, two programmers seems woefully inadequate. It seems obvious to me that N3V have two main choices:-

1. employ many more staff (not just programmers) to bring all these vital features on line as soon as possible, or
2. continue to allocate priorities and resources using existing staff as efficiently as possible.

The first choice would see an enormous increase in costs which would be passed onto the consumers (us) which will inevitably lead to more angry posts. The second choice would keep the prices as low as possible but would delay (even permanently) some users "must have" features, with more angry posts..........
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Assuming this is mostly accurate it MAY show why subscriptions are the new marketing direction. Predictable revenue level, ability to more borrow money at better rates and hire staff to juice up existing products and then move on to another round of some new grand design.

Two programmers for a single game seems more than enough to me. Unless your code is departmentalized more programmers start stepping on each others toes. What real parts are there in Trainz: Driver, Surveyor and Content Manager. Even using a check out check in system for managing the codebase changes, it still isn't practical to have a bunch of programmers making changes.

William

wreeder said:

Two programmers for a single game seems more than enough to me. Unless your code is departmentalized more programmers start stepping on each others toes. What real parts are there in Trainz: Driver, Surveyor and Content Manager. Even using a check out check in system for managing the codebase changes, it still isn't practical to have a bunch of programmers making changes.
William

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That was me who posted that. You can see it at "View Credits" from the File menu of the trS19 Splash screen. (It's a link to www.trainzportal.com/files/TRS19/credits.html)

Two programmers for Windows and Mac OSX version? That's only one per OS. And surely that list doesn't include their iOS and Android programmers?

wreeder said:

Two programmers for a single game seems more than enough to me. Unless your code is departmentalized more programmers start stepping on each others toes. What real parts are there in Trainz: Driver, Surveyor and Content Manager. Even using a check out check in system for managing the codebase changes, it still isn't practical to have a bunch of programmers making changes.

William

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Writing code for a game is complex and is one of the most difficult areas of software code writing for any programmer. The more complex the code the harder it is to find bugs as well as being more difficult to make changes without causing further problems.

wreeder said:

Two programmers for a single game seems more than enough to me.

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I've spent my entire adult life in IT in many different capacities. Two programmers is not enough for an undertaking the size and complexity of Trainz. I would be very surprised if that figure is accurate.

Re. 'Undo' - I can confirm that it was highly recommended - on these forums - not to use Ctrl-Z as it caused so many problems, particularly breaking splines. So dangerous was it considered to be that my recollection is that some earlier versions actually had an option to disable it. Though maybe my memory is playing tricks. Anyway, I never use it just in case, even in TRS19 - you never know what might happen!

Paul

Paulsw2 said:

I can confirm that it was highly recommended - on these forums - not to use Ctrl-Z as it caused so many problems, particularly breaking splines. So dangerous was it considered to be that my recollection is that some earlier versions actually had an option to disable it. Though maybe my memory is playing tricks. Anyway, I never use it just in case, even in TRS19 - you never know what might happen!

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That is not my recollection but both our memories could be playing tricks (I understand it happens as you get older). I never use the Undo/Redo screen buttons but have always used the Ctrl-Z and Ctrl-Y keystrokes and have never had any problems with them.

For some reason one poster in this thread took my statement of never using the Undo/Redo buttons to mean that I never had to undo an action. I think that indicates that people tend to see (and read) what they want to see - probably human nature.

Paulsw2 said:

Re. 'Undo' - I can confirm that it was highly recommended - on these forums - not to use Ctrl-Z as it caused so many problems, particularly breaking splines. So dangerous was it considered to be that my recollection is that some earlier versions actually had an option to disable it. Though maybe my memory is playing tricks. Anyway, I never use it just in case, even in TRS19 - you never know what might happen!

Paul

Click to expand...

It was a case of doing an Undo function period. TRS2004 even had a statement from Auran back then of don't do that! TRS2006 definitely crashed too, but version crashed anyway if you looked the wrong way at it. TRS2009 and TS2010 had issues with a nice one in TS2010, before SP2, of disconnecting all splines from from fixed objects and sending the ends somewhere into orbit. It would take hours to unsort that mess. It got so we just didn't do that, or rarely did knowing the risks. TS12 had its own issues with knotted tracks and crashes too. T:ANE would throw an apoplexic fit, and it was finally now that it works, but tread carefuly with it.

Hi All
We have definitely been listening here, and our team are looking at options for improving the handling of the undo/redo functions in future. At this time I do not know when or how these improvements may be released. Unfortunately we are a small team, which means that we have limited resources to put into tasks, and as such changes can take a while to be implemented, or may have to wait till larger changes occur that relate to that function.

One suggestion for those who want a 'one click/press' method would be to add a second key binding for undo/redo (or just undo if that's what you use the most) for a single keyboard control. A quick test shows that the 'backspace' and 'keypad-' keys are not assigned. I've tested it here, and using backspace in a text entry box does not trigger undo (when assigned to perform the undo function). This would be a good key for those using their left or right hand on the arrow keys in Surveyor. The 'keypad -' key is a good option if you are using the mouse right handed, as in this case you can potentially use your thumb to press the key without removing your hand from the mouse (personally I do this quite a bit with the 'keypad enter' key in various situations).

I understand this won't be suitable for everyone, but it is a suggestion that might hopefully help some find a bit more flexibility with the new UI.

The main reason for the new UI is to use a common UI code/standard between both Driver and Surveyor. This does make it easier for our team to maintain/improve/update the UI in future, without having to maintain two different standards. Even more so with the new Unified Driver/Surveyor feature in Trainz Plus/TRS19 Platinum; as well as providing uniformity if using the existing 'driver mode' option within Surveyor (previously the 'quick drive' button in Surveyor, that loaded the selected session into Driver).

I am definitely an advocate for people exploring the 'control settings' menu, and finding a keyboard arrangement that suits them, there's lots of little changes that you can make for the functions you use the most to bring those keys close to hand. But this has come from having to change keyboard commands in a number of programs to make them more standard. One is, ironically, the 'redo' function in 3DSMax, which I always change to CTRL + A (thanks Gmax for making that one a habit for me! It's nice and easy to get to though.); and just to make it messy Photoshop uses 'CTRL + Z' for it's combined 'undo/redo' function (it toggles between the last and current action), and CTRL + ALT + Z for 'step backward' (more like Trainz's undo) and CTRL + SHIFT + Z for it's 'step forward' (more like Trainz's redo).

Regards

I sort of expected that answer.

This left-handed customer is now stuck to using pre-SP1 or TANE for making routes.
SP1 gives me an almost unworkable UI for efficient route building and I do that every day for many hours due to my personal situation.

It's not just the undo/redo button it's quick drive, wireframe, search filter/pick list and screenshot menu, these are all used by route builders.

Don't ask me to buy the Platinum version to get the Unified Driver/Surveyor, that's pointless, I can't afford to buy it and why would I want to anyway when all the tools I use are hidden in menus!

I agree Graham. It's still going to be unfriendly towards folk with disabilities if the menu interface standard across all versions has to be identical even if a version doesn't have Unified Driver/Surveyor. I don't want Platinum and I don't want Plus+ since I have no use for either of them, but I'm stuck with their menu interface which I find difficult to use.

No disrespect to Zecs answer but it seems the official (or semi official) response then, is like it or lump it! Like others I have gone back to 100240 for building routes and layouts. Sorry N3V but the UI is just so much better for building routes. It’s not just the undo button which as others have said can be dangerous, it’s all the other quick access functions to. Why should users have to faff about setting up hot keys to replace functionality that has stood the test of time for 18 years. There are far more pressing issues that needed addressing than the UI...

There is a hell of a lot more wrong with TRS19, to be worried about a couple of missing arrows.

The day they introduce any realism into the railway operations, is the day i will eat my own foot.

Although i must be dafter than they are, re-activating my gold membership 10 mins ago.