SP1 -- bring back the Undo / Redo buttons

Re: #12. I don't think that anyone is suggestion that the Undo/Redo functions do not operate as intended, it is the inconvenience of using these particular shortcuts which is the concern, both are awkward to select single handed and slow to use with both hands. The two buttons on the Menu/Tool bar have worked quite satisfactory for the past 15 years so why fix something which isn't broken. Both shortcuts do indeed follow Windows convention but few users of the Windows GUI know of them and even less use them and hence even Microsoft retain these two buttons on their basic toolbars of the majority of their software packaged today.

While those who have interests other than route building in TRS19 may not appreciate the significance of this thread and argument to a route builder, it is a similar argument to that which those who prefer driving would probably have if the throttle/brakes lever functions of a locomotive were similarly buried in the menu system and/or only available via shortcuts. It is however unfortunate that the feedback during Beta Testing was not listened to as those who prefer driving are partly dependant on those who prefer route builders for something challenging to navigate, and has been written frequently does N3V ever listen. Peter
 
I got very annoyed with the latest version of Paint Shop Pro, all the default editing tools had vanished as had the undo arrows, I eventually found them and had to basically put them back where they were for every previous version since the year dot.
Problem cause by combining things in menus as the default, sound familiar? at least it was fixable for PSP so I could return to a familiar layout.
 
What irritates me even more than the lack of undo is the filter button or lack there of. Ctrl Shift F? Or try to remember which pull down icon it is under? Give me a break!

Typical programmer's error and why you make sure the programmer working on your UI understands that users are not programmers. User Interface is a specialization and it doesn't appear that N3V has this specialist or that the specialist has never played any earlier version of trainz.
 
What irritates me even more than the lack of undo is the filter button or lack there of. Ctrl Shift F? Or try to remember which pull down icon it is under? Give me a break!

I have issues with those icons as well, which is why I assigned F8 instead of the two handed method. Just one key press.
 
Not to mention for those of us with neuropathy, forcing a keyboard shortcut or increasing the mouse use is not accessibility friendly.
 
I wish you all luck with your effort but this issue came up in the beta testing forum when it was first changed and the response was that the menu bar was updated in appearance to match the changes in Driver. All the protest then didn't get it changed back. You all make very valid arguments, I hope someone is listening.

William


If the developers would provide (game) system calls to these functions, as well as for which layer is being edited, then we could write a rule to display and use them.
 
Not to mention for those of us with neuropathy, forcing a keyboard shortcut or increasing the mouse use is not accessibility friendly.
I also have a disability and I find the menus in TS2019 awkward and non-intuitive enough to use as it is. As for keyboard shortcuts try using those when your brain randomly micropauses like mine does.
 
I also have a disability and I find the menus in TS2019 awkward and non-intuitive enough to use as it is. As for keyboard shortcuts try using those when your brain randomly micropauses like mine does.

In truth I should probably avoid the kind of intensive PC use that building routes entails, but I enjoy exercising the creativity. I have multifocal motor neuropathy which affects the nerves and muscles controlling the hand and fingers so they become weak and unresponsive, also partially numb. It is treated by infusion of IVIG at periodic intervals but towards the end of the treatment cycle it does become less effective and my right hand ends up splayed out like an overcooked roast chicken.

A digression I know, but keeping a user friendly menu system is key to continuing to enjoy one of my hobby pastimes.
 
In truth I should probably avoid the kind of intensive PC use that building routes entails, but I enjoy exercising the creativity. I have multifocal motor neuropathy which affects the nerves and muscles controlling the hand and fingers so they become weak and unresponsive, also partially numb. It is treated by infusion of IVIG at periodic intervals but towards the end of the treatment cycle it does become less effective and my right hand ends up splayed out like an overcooked roast chicken.

A digression I know, but keeping a user friendly menu system is key to continuing to enjoy one of my hobby pastimes.
I build routes in Trainz to keep my silly sleepy fogged up brain working even though it's an effort to do so at times. I make a lot of mistakes so an easy to reach 'Undo' click button is absolutely essential. Keyboard shortcuts are useless. I spend enough time as it staring at my keyboard trying to remember what key does what without having a new lot to try and get used to.
I also enjoy the creativity of building a railway in its landscape with it's towns and communities and creating my own little world..
 
If not, memorize the shortcuts and move on. Maybe write them on a Post-it and stick it to the top of your screen?
I do not really think that is acceptable for what seems to be quite a few serious builders here and were happy with the controls the way they were, I really despise being told to " Just move on or just get over it change will do you good "
Cheers Mick.
 
I do not really think that is acceptable for what seems to be quite a few serious builders here and were happy with the controls the way they were, I really despise being told to " Just move on or just get over it change will do you good "
Cheers Mick.
Thank you very much for posting that Mick. You saved me from posting something that might have got me sent to the naughty chair by the moderators.
 
I do not really think that is acceptable for what seems to be quite a few serious builders here and were happy with the controls the way they were, I really despise being told to " Just move on or just get over it change will do you good "
Cheers Mick.

Which "Mick" are you?:cool::)
 
Interesting thread.
I have NOT pulled the update as the jury is still deliberating. But I'll at least add my opinion.

AHEM!

I would prefer the undo/redo to be clickable in the header, but, can be persuaded if it were replaced with something like the LAYER NAME....
 
I would prefer the undo/redo to be clickable in the header, but, can be persuaded if it were replaced with something like the LAYER NAME....

Now you are talking! Placing the name of the active layer on the menu bar would be a far better use of screen real estate than those silly buttons! (ducks for cover)
 
Now you are talking! Placing the name of the active layer on the menu bar would be a far better use of screen real estate than those silly buttons! (ducks for cover)

Hopefully it's on the list of things to-do at some point. We've asked for it for sometime and there was interest on N3V's end, but you know how things go so we'll see this sometime soon(tm).

A simple Green highlighted active-name for the selected layer. Grayed out or red-colored for inactive layer. You wouldn't know how many times I've made the mistake of doing things in the wrong place!
 
I'll add my opinion here for what it's worth.

I use the undo, redo and wireframe buttons a lot when working in Surveyor. Removing those top line edit buttons is a mistake. They should be restored.

While I don't want to distract from the importance I put on the topic of this thread I'll add my opinion about layers:
Not providing an indication of the active layer (out in the open in Surveyor) was a mistake N3V made when layers were first introduced 10 years ago and failed to correct in every version produced since then.

I suspect in a decade I'll be saying pretty much the same thing about the removal of the top line edit keys - I hope not. I hope both get fixed very soon.

Bob Pearson
 
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